patrickg
Veteran Member
This post is a redirection of a current exchange to this more appropriate venue (thanks for sugestion, GlueGuy).
These first two paragraphs are a continuation of a response to Gary...
There are several earth sheltered and earth bermed homes north of Chickasha on US 8x (where x is a small whole number between 1..3 inclusive, memory fault... parity error, CRC detection). south of Pocasset. A "new" one is east of Minco a little ways on the south side of the road. I saw it under construction about 4 years ago or so. There is one on state hwy 102 on the east side of the road north a ways from Wanette (north of state hwy 39 a bit) I think it may have changed hands last year judging by moving vans when I drove by. It has a cupola/central atrium/gazebo/thingy for air and light on top of the midle of it. Haven't been rude (bold) enough to ask for a tour. Looks like it probably has "rooftop" access via that central architectural feature. A few years ago before buying my section/4 I toured several earth sheltered and bermed homes. Most were flawed to a significant degree by lack of proper engineering and architectural support. "GOOD" earth sheltered and earth bermed homes are not "rocket science" but are out of the experience envelope of many common concrete contractors and basement builders. To do it right requires a lot more consideration of engineering factors than most builders give or can give.
Just getting a good lasting and dry basement is not a trivial task around here. For some reason the years of successful experience and modernizing evolution evidenced in the northern midwest and northeast just doesn't difuse well in this direction. Not to say there aren't good builders or architects in the earth sheltered arena in Oklahoma, OSU is intergalactic headquarters with their nearest competition at University of Minnesota. A university professor of architecture and practicing architect at OU - GO SOONERS (would have to look up his name but he can be found on the web at the OU site) built an earth sheltered home a few years ago just down slope from a subdivision. The lawn watering at the subdivision subsided a short distance below the surface and then ran like an underground river right through his clients site. He did a terrific job in water proofing and ameliorating the effects of upslope irrigation. His success is attested to by his having won an award for his design work on this project.
Now a comment that is part of the ongoing exchange with GlueGuy: My wife and I visited for half a day at his home/office built in their methodology. He also has a garage/storage building on site built in the same manner but as it is unfinished inside it makes a good show and tell. He has evolved the "method" and has improved the tooling/forms quite a bit since having sold some forms to other builders in Texas and Illinois years ago (his father was in charge then). In my extensive search I had contacted both the TX and IL outfits. They each have their own twist, differing travel charges etc but If I go this way it will be with the son of the originator (KC, MO). My greatest dissapointment is that they don't do turn key or even rough finish.
You get the slab then a monolithic (sort of) wall and ceiling system with rough plumbing, electrical, and whatever you want in the walls for electronic connectivity etc. and that is about it. They do their part and split, leaving you with recommendations for water sealing, earth cover, finishing, etc. I would prefer having a single entity responsible to me for materials, workmanship, waranty for these, and so forth. I want that single entity not to be ME!
On the other hand there are outfits that give guaranties against leaks and will do a more complete job, including sealing. Unfortunately they are "flat worlders", i.e. they do flat ceilings, albeit of whatever reasonable height, but flat nevertheless. The Elipsoidally domed cathedral ceilings of the KC, MO builder atop straight walls seem to be an excellent blend of domed construction with the practicality of straight walls. I like it. I would already have started construction with them if they only did more than pour the shell and split.
At any rate whoever does the job will want water, electricity, and an all weather road to the site. So I can build a road with my Kubota, Rural water will be available within a few hundred yards and across a couple ponds in less than a year and electricity is only a few hundred yards away. In the interim I can get water to the site from my nearest frost free hydrant that is on my well (couple hundred yards) but this is for warmer weather as it would be surface hose/pipe. I can get electricity to the site without too much hassle. We have two electric utilities serving the area. Wires go down the hwy on both sides. My shop is on one and my mom's new house (500 ft away) is on the other. I have a preference for my site but it is a hundred feet in the other companies territory. I will try to negotiate a variance or put the meter on the line and run really huge buried cables to the site. Have to look up the cable size required for say 300 amp service with a run of 300 ft. May be cheaper to install a coal fired generating station.
And finally: Tech note: earth sheltered versus earth bermed
Earth sheltered has earth cover on top as well as some side walls. Earth bermed has earth cover on at least some walls but not on the roof. Earth bermed typically has traditional roof and gives some thermal benefit but not nearly as much as can be had in an earth sheltered design. Earth sheltered designs also offer vastly improved storm resistance. There are many examples of earth sheltered homes surviving tornados and hurricanes. Earth bermed would likely loose the roof to hurricane or tornado and suffer extensive water damage and risk injury or death for the occupants.
In closing (WHEW!) Two comments
1. My safe room will be my master suite in its entirety. I will not "go to shelter" or worry about storms at night. Just go to bed and not worry. The worst thing that would happen is the rest of the house would would need extensive rework but we would be fine and insurance would replace "things."
2. If anyone has an interest in earth sheltered (or bermed) architecture (or even passive solar) please comment in reply to this post. GlueGuy, I'm sure can help keep the thread flowing.
Patrick
These first two paragraphs are a continuation of a response to Gary...
There are several earth sheltered and earth bermed homes north of Chickasha on US 8x (where x is a small whole number between 1..3 inclusive, memory fault... parity error, CRC detection). south of Pocasset. A "new" one is east of Minco a little ways on the south side of the road. I saw it under construction about 4 years ago or so. There is one on state hwy 102 on the east side of the road north a ways from Wanette (north of state hwy 39 a bit) I think it may have changed hands last year judging by moving vans when I drove by. It has a cupola/central atrium/gazebo/thingy for air and light on top of the midle of it. Haven't been rude (bold) enough to ask for a tour. Looks like it probably has "rooftop" access via that central architectural feature. A few years ago before buying my section/4 I toured several earth sheltered and bermed homes. Most were flawed to a significant degree by lack of proper engineering and architectural support. "GOOD" earth sheltered and earth bermed homes are not "rocket science" but are out of the experience envelope of many common concrete contractors and basement builders. To do it right requires a lot more consideration of engineering factors than most builders give or can give.
Just getting a good lasting and dry basement is not a trivial task around here. For some reason the years of successful experience and modernizing evolution evidenced in the northern midwest and northeast just doesn't difuse well in this direction. Not to say there aren't good builders or architects in the earth sheltered arena in Oklahoma, OSU is intergalactic headquarters with their nearest competition at University of Minnesota. A university professor of architecture and practicing architect at OU - GO SOONERS (would have to look up his name but he can be found on the web at the OU site) built an earth sheltered home a few years ago just down slope from a subdivision. The lawn watering at the subdivision subsided a short distance below the surface and then ran like an underground river right through his clients site. He did a terrific job in water proofing and ameliorating the effects of upslope irrigation. His success is attested to by his having won an award for his design work on this project.
Now a comment that is part of the ongoing exchange with GlueGuy: My wife and I visited for half a day at his home/office built in their methodology. He also has a garage/storage building on site built in the same manner but as it is unfinished inside it makes a good show and tell. He has evolved the "method" and has improved the tooling/forms quite a bit since having sold some forms to other builders in Texas and Illinois years ago (his father was in charge then). In my extensive search I had contacted both the TX and IL outfits. They each have their own twist, differing travel charges etc but If I go this way it will be with the son of the originator (KC, MO). My greatest dissapointment is that they don't do turn key or even rough finish.
You get the slab then a monolithic (sort of) wall and ceiling system with rough plumbing, electrical, and whatever you want in the walls for electronic connectivity etc. and that is about it. They do their part and split, leaving you with recommendations for water sealing, earth cover, finishing, etc. I would prefer having a single entity responsible to me for materials, workmanship, waranty for these, and so forth. I want that single entity not to be ME!
On the other hand there are outfits that give guaranties against leaks and will do a more complete job, including sealing. Unfortunately they are "flat worlders", i.e. they do flat ceilings, albeit of whatever reasonable height, but flat nevertheless. The Elipsoidally domed cathedral ceilings of the KC, MO builder atop straight walls seem to be an excellent blend of domed construction with the practicality of straight walls. I like it. I would already have started construction with them if they only did more than pour the shell and split.
At any rate whoever does the job will want water, electricity, and an all weather road to the site. So I can build a road with my Kubota, Rural water will be available within a few hundred yards and across a couple ponds in less than a year and electricity is only a few hundred yards away. In the interim I can get water to the site from my nearest frost free hydrant that is on my well (couple hundred yards) but this is for warmer weather as it would be surface hose/pipe. I can get electricity to the site without too much hassle. We have two electric utilities serving the area. Wires go down the hwy on both sides. My shop is on one and my mom's new house (500 ft away) is on the other. I have a preference for my site but it is a hundred feet in the other companies territory. I will try to negotiate a variance or put the meter on the line and run really huge buried cables to the site. Have to look up the cable size required for say 300 amp service with a run of 300 ft. May be cheaper to install a coal fired generating station.
And finally: Tech note: earth sheltered versus earth bermed
Earth sheltered has earth cover on top as well as some side walls. Earth bermed has earth cover on at least some walls but not on the roof. Earth bermed typically has traditional roof and gives some thermal benefit but not nearly as much as can be had in an earth sheltered design. Earth sheltered designs also offer vastly improved storm resistance. There are many examples of earth sheltered homes surviving tornados and hurricanes. Earth bermed would likely loose the roof to hurricane or tornado and suffer extensive water damage and risk injury or death for the occupants.
In closing (WHEW!) Two comments
1. My safe room will be my master suite in its entirety. I will not "go to shelter" or worry about storms at night. Just go to bed and not worry. The worst thing that would happen is the rest of the house would would need extensive rework but we would be fine and insurance would replace "things."
2. If anyone has an interest in earth sheltered (or bermed) architecture (or even passive solar) please comment in reply to this post. GlueGuy, I'm sure can help keep the thread flowing.
Patrick
