Post for workshop.....Solid vs Glulam

[Kenfyoozed]

I will be building a workshop. I had the plans drawn up by an enginner that draws these type plans on a regular bassis. He does so fo one of the local builders who builds post frame shops. Im my plans the post are listed as 4ply 2x8 glulam post. Its a very tall shop, 18' eave height, 30'x40 shop with a 10' lean-to off the back. The detailed notes calls for these 4ply glulam post OR engineer approved equal. The acutal size of these post are 7" x 5.375". My question is.....Would a 8x8 southern yellow pine pressure treated be equal?

I have sent a message to the enginner to ask as well, but thought i would ask here and see what answers i would get. The reason im looking else where is beacause of the price of the poles. The actual price of the poles i can handle, but the place im ordering from wants 1900$ for shipping. Beacuse of the size, they normally only carry 3ply. I could wait until they place an order, but then they want to split the cost of shipping.Which is better, but if i wasnt going to order they would have to pay the shipping all the same. They told me the shipping is the same price for one pole as it would be for an entire trailer load. I would think they wouldnt charge me a shipping price if they were going to order mine with their normal order. Especially if they wanted me to buy the other supplys for my shop from them. And yes they are the only ones in town who can order there poles. Ok Rant over...

I can get sold post local at any time i want, as another place keeps many lengths in stock. So what are y'alls thoughts?

And thank you in advance.

 

[Bladehauler]

My .02 worth , glulam beams are set in a press straightened and glued , if I understand you right , your contemplating making your own, the home made beams would probably be as strong , but NOT as straight so finish issues might arise as you move along .8x6 solid post might have the same issues though. 18 foot eve would be what 22-24 foot post depending on how deep they have to be set.If you have the capabilities , you might be able to build a jig out of steel to build your own glulam beams in allowing you to straighten , glue, clamp and nail to get them as straight as possible. dont know what is the best procces. seems every time I try to save a dollar it cost more in the long run, But I can say I screwed THAT Up all by myself !!

 

[Rock knocker]

The only answer is what your engineer signs off on

 

[Kenfyoozed]

My .02 worth , glulam beams are set in a press straightened and glued , if I understand you right , your contemplating making your own, the home made beams would probably be as strong , but NOT as straight so finish issues might arise as you move along .8x6 solid post might have the same issues though. 18 foot eve would be what 22-24 foot post depending on how deep they have to be set.If you have the capabilities , you might be able to build a jig out of steel to build your own glulam beams in allowing you to straighten , glue, clamp and nail to get them as straight as possible. dont know what is the best procces. seems every time I try to save a dollar it cost more in the long run, But I can say I screwed THAT Up all by myself !!

No sir,my question was basiclly would a solid 8x8 be structurely superior or equal to a 4ply glulam post? Thank you for your help though.

And yes im sure my engineer will have to sign off on it, but thought while i was waiting i could ask the same question here.

Thanks Again guys.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would think that a solid 8x8 would be strong enough but it might twist a bit when drying as they sometimes do especiallly if not corner braced. Does this design call for them to be buried in the dirt of bolted to a slab or concrete column. I wouldnt want to bury anything that was glued together so I suspect that they are anchored to a slab or column. I would bet that your engineer would sign off on the 8x8.

 

[Baby Grand]

My gut reaction is that a glued up beam will be superior because it won't be subject to flaws in the wood that can pass through the entire section, like checks, knots, etc. With 4 plies, the defect can only affect 25% of the glulam's cross section. I would think the glulam would be much more stable, as Gary suggested, giving you straighter frames with less residual stresses. But then I'm no civil engineer.
-Jim

 

[Kenfyoozed]

These will be burried 5 feet deep. The glulam will be treated 6-7', and the solid most likley will be fully treated. Many of the buildings around ( South Alabama) here are built with the glulam treated at the ground contact area. Im getting a few other quotes, from places with shipping from as far away as PA, and Washington State, that are still 1500-1700$ cheaper than my local place. Crazy.

 

[Mark Page]

Call these guys, ask for Steve, use my name and you'll get the straight story. It's what they do.

Specialty Beams - Custom Structural Timbers, Wood Beams, Home Packages, Planed, Hewn, Rough Sawn, Douglas Fir, Timbered Millwork

 

[dstig1]

How tall is the post? It may be difficult if not impossible to find it in solid stock if it is very long. It may be EXTREMEMLY hard to find a straight one that stays straight. Glulams are also likely to be graded for higher load capacities as they are selected from graded boards and the knots and splits are cut out before laying up the glulam. You can't do that with a solid sawn post. You will likely get a better quality item with the glulam but pay more for it. Since it sounds like you need an engineer for the structural work, he will be the final say, assuming the inspectors are happy with his spec's at plan review.

 

[jomar215]

My 2 cents say that no engineered, glued together, and buried in the ground scientific surety is going to beat a twisted up, checked, and bug eaten 8x8. Time tested and grandma approved, that's how I like my barns. Call me old fashioned, but the gluelam seems new fangled to me.

 

[CurlyDave]

You have to know how to ask questions of an engineer.

If you just ask him if you can substitute solid PT for glulam he may do some calculations and charge you for his time to do them.

If you ask him how much he would charge to tell you if you can substitute PT for glulam he will quote a price for this and you can decide how to proceed.

My recent experience has been that it is usually much less expensive to shop around for the exact item the engineer has called out. It might take a long time to find it, but there will probably be an inexpensive source nearby.

Have you tried asking the engineer where is the lowest cost place to buy the posts he calls out?

 

[Kenfyoozed]

Thanks again guys.

I am currently shopping around. I did find other glulams that were less expensive. I'm awaiting some paperwork and info to review the specs.

The poles specified in my plans are listed by Ridgid Ply. The others I found were at Timber technologies and ABMartin. Both of these last 2 have specs just a bit lower than the Rigidply versions. I'm attempting to find out why. They all are 4 ply 2x8 glulam. I feel comfortable using the ones from ABMartin even though the design values are lower.

So would an inspector notice the difference between two post made the same way from different manufacturer?

I know the reason the engineer used the Rigidply is because they are the only ones you can get locally and the ones his largest contractor account likes to use. So that's why he used their specs.

I know I'll have to ask him, but what do the masses say? Would an inspector look that closely at the post and search for the design value of the post?

I suspect he would not but I'm new to this.

 

[Gem99ultra]

You can count on the pine posts twisting and splitting. The glulam will probably spec out better, but in my opinion I'd want to use steel post - on the corners at a minum. Best advice is to spring for the engineer cost, and have him spec it to be SURE that it'll support the weight of the roof, including a factor for wind and snow/ice. The supports are not where you'll want to cut cost.

As far as what the inspector will look at - he'll spend 50 times as much time talking about turkey hunting as he'll spend on inspecting your building. I have zero confidence in inspectors here in Georgia nor in Alabama. Zero.

 

[LD1]

I guess using glued posts is new to me. Is that because you are down in hurricane zone???

Up here, "morton" buildings uses a laminated posts instead of solid. But they dont use glue. They are just nailed together. Which makes them cheaper because a 24' PT 6x6 or 8x8 is expensive. 2x6 or 2x8 dimensional lumber is cheap and only the bottom needs PT. And the posts can be built after the PT section is in the ground. Making it easier than trying to set a HEAVY 24' long post.

 

[Kenfyoozed]

Yes we have high wind zones here. I think I'm in a 130mph wind zone area.

 

[mx842]

Did you try the Morton plant, they have a plant in AL somewhere..hold on Awhhh here it is ......Mailing Address:
440 Jochum Rd 440 Jochum Rd
Hanceville, AL 35077-4000
256 352 7246/7

You may have already talked to them but if you haven't you might give it a shot.

They use the laminated post in all their buildings and from talking to the guys that were putting up a building at a friends house one time they told me that they were actually cheaper for them to use them in the long run because they saved on salt treated lumber (only treated part is what goes into the ground. Also they are straighter and stay that way so the labor in putting up and finishing the building takes less time and you get a better finished product (so they say).

As far as which is stronger I guess that all depends on the application but the laminated post are considered stronger at least if you talk to the people that make them. Morton uses them because the post are engineered to what they are building. They can use a thicker laminated post and along with other built in considerations in the engineering plan go further between post save on the number of truss in the roof system and other places throughout the building. It's an engineering thing and I believe it's more of a selling point that anything else. Morton has their own manufacturing plant and wood yards so for them the whole process for them is factored in and in the end they can build the best building possible and still sell it at fairly competitive price and make money all the way through the line, the lumber, the manufacturing of the lumber into engineer grade lumber, the building of their beams and truss systems, transportation, the construction process and the finished product.

Is an 8x8 solid yellow pine post just as strong? probably so but they do have a mind of their own if left out to long they tend to take funny shapes and also may need to be closer spaced depending on the application and design. Your engineer probably wants them because of the height of the building you are planning. What are you going to be storing in there, giraffes? :laughing:

 

[boggen]

there are a good amount of "metal building" companies out there, that may be in or out of state. pole barns / metal buildings do not get built like regular homes do. as a result a smaller market there is, as a result many of these companies market to businesses, for large shops, but also deal with small size home user sheds / barns. and have crews that travel around to install / ship / build there buildings.

google "metal building", "metal shed", "metal barn", "pole barn", etc.... the metal more referring to the metal tin sides and roof that gets put on, vs siding and shingles that a house might have. and most companies offer wood or metal support bracings. and variety of other options.

some companies will have full setup that includes some sort of insulation as well. if you plan to heat / cool the barn/shed/building.

 

[o2batsea]

Well if it were me, I'd build a form around some rebar and fill it with concrete. One form will do all your posts. No shipping, arrow straight, won't rot burn or blow away. If you need to nail to it you can run some threaded rod thru the form and bolt some 2 x lumber to the finished post.

 

[o2batsea]

I don't know about you but I find a wood building has a better feel to it. The metal buildings are ok but they make funny noises and just kinda creep me out. It's bad enough I have a metal roof on my barn. It pops and creaks all day and night, and when it rains it's loud as a jet.

 

[Rock knocker]

Well if it were me, I'd build a form around some rebar and fill it with concrete. One form will do all your posts. No shipping, arrow straight, won't rot burn or blow away. If you need to nail to it you can run some threaded rod thru the form and bolt some 2 x lumber to the finished post.

He has engineered plans he must follow