Pole Barn advice

[AJE]

Hello everybody.

I would like to add a barn to my property. I can do some of the work myself, however I have been looking at various local companies for some estimates.

I would like to get it as big as possible. I was originally looking for estimates on a 30x60x10 however I may have settled myself back to 30x48x10.

I have a firm estimate from one company detailing a 30x60x10 for about $35K, including the 4" concrete slab, sliding door on back, walk in and overhead door on front, with a frost free hydrant and pit, perma columns, excavating, estimated 100ton of gravel, and insulation.

I have a cheaper estimate for just the 30x48x10 for about $16K, not including the ground work or concrete floor.

I will do electrical and lighting myself.

I figured I would ask for advice on a couple of things.

Laminated posts? (detailed about $475 extra)
Bubble wrap insulation?
Insulation on roof only? (this is what I was thinking)

I'm sure I'll think of more but I'd like to hear opinions.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Laminating posts can be done two ways. Spline joints and glue cured with heat and pressure or stock cut to size and nailed together. I think the former would be stronger but have not heard of issues with the latter. Nailed should be cheaper.

My personal opinion on bubble wrap is don't build without it for the roof anyway. It will stop the dripping moisture issue and lessen the sound from heavy rainfall.

Go with the longer length if you can. Unless you are doing your own work, adding on is always more than going large enough to begin with.

Not sure of your intended usage but ten feet will limit your door height to about nine feet. Kind of limits larger vehicles like tall tractors or RV's.

 

[boggen]

it been 8 to 10 years ago. but when i went around looking.

i found out even places out of state even a few states away. were approx same price that is even with shipping and them coming out and building it.

do a search for "metal buildings" vs pole barn, tractor shed, farm shed, etc... most of the companies i found were large companies that build little barns like you and i want, and then the large 1000x10000 feet buildings. and the companies are setup to go were ever they need to.

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you could wait for concrete floor and just put some gravel down. for temp doings and then later on. have some local company come in and do it. and if it were me, i would honestly skip having some other company do it for ya. and call local concrete companies directly. and see what they would charge.

double check on radiant heating. it doesn't cost that much for some hard board insulation to put down first then the rebar and wire mesh. and the hose for the radiant heating. then when you want to heat the shed say next year or 5 years form now, you could then invest in a boiler or hot water heater to heat the concrete floor.

insulation below the concrete is more of a way to help slow down the loss of heat through the ground.

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insulation. it completely depends on were you live. colder climates will need more insulation while warmer climates less insulation ((i should say R-value))

open ceilings or rather gabbel ceilings, require more insulation (higher R-value) vs ceilings like most homes have that are flat ceilings in there bed rooms, kitchens, living rooms etc...

ceilings require more R value than walls.

if ya heating and/or cooling the shed, you need insulation on walls and ceiling. and i haven't seen bubble wrap cut it. perhaps part of the over all insulation layers.

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there is a wide variety of ways to insulate the walls and ceiling, from spray on foam (professionally done), to hard board insulation, to rolled insulation, to blown in insulation.

to sprayed on ceiling with a fire retardant on it. to hard board insulation in the walls.

for me here in central Illinois. when i did the math. for basic insulation vs more insulation along with house wrap as i call it. it would take about 10 years for me to start breaking even on savings on heating and cooling bill for the shed.

basic for me would be, R 10 insulation value in walls, and R 20 value in ceiling. vs the recommend value at the time was i think R 17 in walls and R 35 value in ceiling. difference being paying up front for all the extra material.

if i had no insulation. but just used some spray foam (great stuff in a red can) to fill all the little holes in attempt to make everything air tight. it would never be worth to try and heat and cool it. perhaps a force air blower mounted some general work bench space to keep my rear warm as i worked on something. and to stick my hands up to, to warm them up.

 

[AJE]

I will insulate the roof but I don't really think it's necessary for the rest of it. It will not stay heated during the winter, and if I need to work on something, I'll fire up the kerosene heater. My dad has a bigger barn and it works pretty well.

I forgot that this forum does not display my geographical area (others I post on do). I live in western Ohio, so cold/chilly winters and hot summers.

It will be used for tool storage, toy storage, and to park my tractor and truck indoors.

 

[glenn76]

Well, 've built a few pole barns...I actually built one and finished the inside like a trad, house and live in it right now...I welded up my shop...took a little longer, but i wanted it to be termite free. I wouldnt worry too much about the laminated posts unless you're planning on moving thru the build up real slow...generally they only use those to prevent a little twisting that occurs over a slow build, if you're having a co. do it, I wouldn't bother...they'll be done in 4-5 days. Definately use some form of insulation...metal sweats! I am installing styrofoam in my shop and it's acting as tho it's a large ice chest...very pleased...but def use something if you want a climate controlled enviroment for your man cave!!

 

[theboman]

Termite free? Wow, how with a pole barn? I'm no expert but from life experiences and selling house the past five years, termites are almost always a treat. Poles in the ground and there's a chance for termites. Concrete? ha, seem them come out of concrete floors.

The only things I've told works is 4 blocks high off the ground, or all metal from ground up, or termite cap ontop of blocks. I'm sure there's other stuff too. I HATE termites and ants.

Told by a local professional that termites won't find new construction for 6-8 years! Also, if you mulch beside house, use landscape timbers next to house, have scrap lumber/wood next to house those are welcome mats for termites. He said the mulch thing is a totally NO-NO! The mulch is a treat since it's older decaying wood and holds moisture, and then folks add more and leave the rotting mulch on the bottom! He opened my eyes.

Pole barns are like closest and gun safes, they are never big enough!

 

[mjncad]

Go taller! 10' really limits you.

 

[Birdhunter1]

I just built a 30X48X10 6/12 pitch roof and I have some good advice for you.
1: insulate the whole thing. I did mine with 1/2" pink polystyrene for less that $700. It is worth it. The week it dropped off to 20 degrees highs and single digit lows at night around here and did not get above freezing I did a test. I took a 32 oz. stop-n-rob cup of water 1/2 full and it took 3 days before ice formed. No heat in the building yet it just absorbed that much during the day. Remember $700 did the whole thing and a few rolls of duct tape to seal the seams did wonders.
2: Have them put the hydrant inside, while you are at it plumb in a few flor drains and put the piping in to do a bathroom later (at least stub it outside of the building if you do not hook it up). My shop is 200' from the house, i put a bathroom out there, wouldn't have it any other way. Bathroom is a 9x9 and I also have all my hunting clothes in there, it is heated with a 500W electric baseboard heater. It has more insulation than the rest of the building (dad had a bunch of R 13 fiberglass left over from an addition on his house so I used it for him).
3: Have them do yor floor in a manner that has it above grade. I do not mean grade at the edge of the building but 10' away from it. Mine sits about 1' higher than the surrounding area 10' away from the building. Of course i also built mine with a 1' concrete wall around the perimeter (except door openings) and all of my posts are above the concrete not in the ground.
4: Puting metal up on the sides is not difficult, if you can handle wiring the shop yourself then you and a buddy can knock out sheathing it yourself. Roof is a bit different but still not hard unless you cannot handle climbing on trusswork and purlins.

 

[Gizmo2]

Go taller! 10' really limits you.

As we are having a 20' D x 32' W x 10' H pole build this spring. I have to ask why does 10' limit you?

 

[AJE]

I just built a 30X48X10 6/12 pitch roof and I have some good advice for you.
1: insulate the whole thing. I did mine with 1/2" pink polystyrene for less that $700. It is worth it. The week it dropped off to 20 degrees highs and single digit lows at night around here and did not get above freezing I did a test. I took a 32 oz. stop-n-rob cup of water 1/2 full and it took 3 days before ice formed. No heat in the building yet it just absorbed that much during the day. Remember $700 did the whole thing and a few rolls of duct tape to seal the seams did wonders.
2: Have them put the hydrant inside, while you are at it plumb in a few flor drains and put the piping in to do a bathroom later (at least stub it outside of the building if you do not hook it up). My shop is 200' from the house, i put a bathroom out there, wouldn't have it any other way. Bathroom is a 9x9 and I also have all my hunting clothes in there, it is heated with a 500W electric baseboard heater. It has more insulation than the rest of the building (dad had a bunch of R 13 fiberglass left over from an addition on his house so I used it for him).
3: Have them do yor floor in a manner that has it above grade. I do not mean grade at the edge of the building but 10' away from it. Mine sits about 1' higher than the surrounding area 10' away from the building. Of course i also built mine with a 1' concrete wall around the perimeter (except door openings) and all of my posts are above the concrete not in the ground.
4: Puting metal up on the sides is not difficult, if you can handle wiring the shop yourself then you and a buddy can knock out sheathing it yourself. Roof is a bit different but still not hard unless you cannot handle climbing on trusswork and purlins.

1. Definitely will consider this.
2. The hydrant will be inside, however it isn't far at all from the house, and it is below the septic system. I don't think a bathroom would be worth the extra hassle.
3. This is part of the plan

 

[mx842]

I just built a 30X48X10 6/12 pitch roof and I have some good advice for you.
1: insulate the whole thing. I did mine with 1/2" pink polystyrene for less that $700. It is worth it. The week it dropped off to 20 degrees highs and single digit lows at night around here and did not get above freezing I did a test. I took a 32 oz. stop-n-rob cup of water 1/2 full and it took 3 days before ice formed. No heat in the building yet it just absorbed that much during the day. Remember $700 did the whole thing and a few rolls of duct tape to seal the seams did wonders.
2: Have them put the hydrant inside, while you are at it plumb in a few flor drains and put the piping in to do a bathroom later (at least stub it outside of the building if you do not hook it up). My shop is 200' from the house, i put a bathroom out there, wouldn't have it any other way. Bathroom is a 9x9 and I also have all my hunting clothes in there, it is heated with a 500W electric baseboard heater. It has more insulation than the rest of the building (dad had a bunch of R 13 fiberglass left over from an addition on his house so I used it for him).
3: Have them do yor floor in a manner that has it above grade. I do not mean grade at the edge of the building but 10' away from it. Mine sits about 1' higher than the surrounding area 10' away from the building. Of course i also built mine with a 1' concrete wall around the perimeter (except door openings) and all of my posts are above the concrete not in the ground.
4: Puting metal up on the sides is not difficult, if you can handle wiring the shop yourself then you and a buddy can knock out sheathing it yourself. Roof is a bit different but still not hard unless you cannot handle climbing on trusswork and purlins.

I too am in the process of building a 32X40 pole barn shop/storage building. I saw where you did not place your post in the ground but rather put them on a 1' wall. How did you attach them? I didn't want to put mine in the ground either and I have poured about half my pole footings. I did the corner post 2' sq and the rest are 18" sq with roughly 10 to 12" of 4000 lb concrete in the holes. What I wanted to do is bring up the concrete from the footing using those cardboard concrete forms to grade for the post to sit on and attach them using 3x3 pieces of angle iron bolted to the concrete and thru bolted. On a couple other forums I have had people tell me this would not work or would not give enough support as it would if they were placed into the soil/gravel and tamped into place.

I'm not a structural engineer by any stretch but why would this present a problem other than maybe they are worrying about the wood post cracking or splitting during a F5 tornado attack and pulling the post off it's foundation. I can make my own post blocks cheaper than I can buy them the ones at Lowes are $25.00+ each. I have plenty of angle laying around and my time isn't worth anything.....if you don't believe me just ask some of my customers.LOL I'm trying to build this building as cheap as I can and it will be an on going project probably for s year or more before it completely done. Once I get the roof on where I can put my junk I will do the rest when I can get the money to fund them. The floor will be done probably done in two maybe three pours starting in the back moving forward to the big door in the front. Right now I just need room to put a bunch of tools and equipment because I want to move out of the building I'm renting now.

I guess what I'm asking is how are your post connected to your foundation?

 

[KB9UDE]

We just built a 64x40 with 18' sidewalls. It is really nice to have 14foot tall doors. I can pull my GN trailer with tractor loaded in and out as needed. See my avatar pic.

 

[QRTRHRS]

As we are having a 20' D x 32' W x 10' H pole build this spring. I have to ask why does 10' limit you?

Read my previous response. "Not sure of your intended usage but ten feet will limit your door height to about nine feet. Kind of limits larger vehicles like tall tractors or RV's."

 

[QRTRHRS]

Well, 've built a few pole barns...I actually built one and finished the inside like a trad, house and live in it right now...I welded up my shop...took a little longer, but i wanted it to be termite free. I wouldnt worry too much about the laminated posts unless you're planning on moving thru the build up real slow...generally they only use those to prevent a little twisting that occurs over a slow build, if you're having a co. do it, I wouldn't bother...they'll be done in 4-5 days. Definately use some form of insulation...metal sweats! I am installing styrofoam in my shop and it's acting as tho it's a large ice chest...very pleased...but def use something if you want a climate controlled enviroment for your man cave!!

I have seen solid post twist and bow over time after construction. Best to question your builder about their posts. With the advent of ACQ treated lumber, I would be asking the treatment process and the type of hardware being used.

I can still get CCA treated fenceposts, round or square but I have not kept up with what builders can and are using for treated posts these days. I would go with perma coulums over ACQ posts if financially possible.

 

[boggen]

Read my previous response. "Not sure of your intended usage but ten feet will limit your door height to about nine feet. Kind of limits larger vehicles like tall tractors or RV's."

doors are placed on ends of sheds. allowing higher doors. 10' would be i am guessing side wall height.

 

[KB9UDE]

doors are placed on ends of sheds. allowing higher doors. 10' would be i am guessing side wall height.

If you have standard trusses you will not gain very much door height by them being on the end wall.

 

[Scotty370]

Well, I've finally 'pulled the trigger' on my new build. A 28'x40' Gambrel Roof. It all starts with Amish Logging, of some of my pine! Picture attached. Varience application has been submitted, with building permit not far behind. Hopefully we can get this thing up, if the F@#$%^&^%$#@^&ing winter ever ends! ~Scotty

 

[Gizmo2]

Well, I've finally 'pulled the trigger' on my new build. A 28'x40' Gambrel Roof. It all starts with Amish Logging, of some of my pine! Picture attached. Varience application has been submitted, with building permit not far behind. Hopefully we can get this thing up, if the F@#$%^&^%$#@^&ing winter ever ends! ~Scotty

I too had to apply for a variance, town wants 30' to the property line. The killer is I own the other piece of property. Replacing the brown barn up by the house and it's the reason we are only going 20' deep with the new building. We have the horse barn approximately 300 feet south from the house and another building approximately 300 feet north from the house in the other direction. Some how over the years we managed to acquire 3 pieces of property and our planning was ALL wrong. Have to say though, the volleyball court on the north piece has been marvelous.
SDG LiveLink

 

[mjncad]

As we are having a 20' D x 32' W x 10' H pole build this spring. I have to ask why does 10' limit you?

Check out additional replies in this thread, and ask DiamondPilot as he regrets having 12' tall sidewalls since they aren't tall enough. He's kicked himself in numerous threads on this forum over not having a tall enough building.

If you go with standard trusses as another poster said, it limits your door height, which could be a problem for tall trucks and tractors. Want to put a lift in your building, 10' may be cramping your style. What about future ceiling fans or gas fired radiant tube heaters hung from the ceiling. Unless you intend to use all fluorescent lights for area lighting, a low ceiling rules out low-bay lights. And so on...

 

[mx842]

Does anyone have a post foundation plan for how they connected their post to the concrete footing? I am working on my post footings now and don't want my post buried in the ground for a couple reasons. One is post rot and the other is the cost of the post themselves. I can get by with 12' post by sitting them on the top of the footing at grade where it would take 14 maybe 16 footers by going in on top of a 8 or 10 inch footing buried in the soil. It may not be much savings maybe $25 or $30 bucks a post but every buck I can save leaves me more bucks to spend on my concrete pad once the roof is up.

I don't want to hyjack the OP's post so maybe I'll just start another thread but any help would be helpful.