Plumbing question

[bake321]

Need help from the plumbers and others. I'm ready to hire a plumber for the house we are building. I'm real pleased with one candidate, but he runs the supply lines from the crawl space to sinks, etc through the floor instead of in the wall. His point of being able to fix potential problems in the future is well taken, but seems to me that it makes a much cleaner install coming out of the wall. What do you all think?

Cary

 

[Conquistador]

My father-in-law is a plumber here in Kentucky and I can tell you from going to the job site with him that there is a definite advantage to running the lines through the floor instead of the wall. Even though we don't get the sub-zero arctic air like our northern neighbors do all the time, we do still have cold snaps here that pose freezing dangers in our houses. When I built my house last year, he specifically ran the water lines through the floor because it provides an extra amount of freeze protection to the water lines. I have been with him on several jobs where the water lines were installed in the outside lines and during cold snaps, they froze. This is particuarly true of washing machine boxes installed on the outside wall. I really believe your plumber knows what he's doing there. He's protecting you from some future headaches should there be a chance of freezing. Just my two cents!!

 

[budlite]

Agree completely with running water lines of any kind through the floor instead of within the wall. This summer we began a moderate renovation to our kitchen and discovered that the drain line from the kitchen sink had been leaking for years. Of course this resulted in a MAJOR renovation - floor completely replaced down to subfloor, mold problems, etc. If the drain had not been run horizontally through the wall for about 18 inches before exiting through the floor we would have sustained only minor damage or none at all. Thank god our homeowners insurance covered most of it. But once it became apparrant we had to do some major work to repair the damage, my wife decided on a major renovation. It ended up costing about $20 large out of my pocket! But hey, I got a tractor and a 30x40 building a couple years ago, so it was payback time.

 

[EddieWalker]

Because my kitchen sink is on the outside wall, and because I have a slab foundation, my water line runs through an exterior wall. Normally, you don't want to do this, but it's the only way that I have to get the pipes there.

My pipes froze on my that are in the wall, and it took most of the day for them to thaw out. Luckily, they didn't rupture, or I'd have to tear apart the wall to fix the leak. It's the fist time that it's happened,andthe first time that we've ever had so many days of freezing temperatures in a row that never went above 32 degrees. If it was a one time event, that would be great, but if it starts to happen more often, I'm going to have to start leaving the heat on in the house at a much higher temperature. After the ice melted, I left that line on just a bit every night, and didn't have another problem.

Eddie

 

[RalphVa]

NEVER run water pipes through outside walls. ONE place in our NJ house had such pipes, and they froze.

Running through interior walls is fine, but for maintenance, running them through the floor, particularly if an unfinished basement floor would be ideal. I think that if I built a house and ran any water pipes through interior walls that I'd affix access panels to those walls (and this is what I've done where I've found pipes running behind walls in closets). Around here, so many houses have required repiping due to the plastic fitting problem with chlorinated water and acidic water in copper pipes and creates a mess in having to cut out the wall, etc.

Ralph

 

[JB4310]

There was a storey on the news recently about pipe freezing in the wall and had some dramatic pics, but I couldn't find the exact ones.

Here's one I found though.

Google Image Result for http://www.valparaisoutilities.org/water/conserve/Images/WinterImage1.gif

JB

 

[20 20]

I ran mine through the 1st floor ceiling and then down through the wall. Reason for ceiling keeps pipes from freezing{house on piers 2 story}}. I lived in a few homes here in the north were the pipes went through the crawl space. Never fails they freeze and it is a sun of a gun to crawl under there in the dead of winter. I also went with pecs pipe{sp} it can handle being froze{few times} without giving issues. I also installed a water manifold system, easy to make and cheap, so I can shut of any line I want at any time. IF I had a cellar then yes pipes would have been run under floor

 

[bake321]

Hey good responses and I should have clarified on inside walls only. I will let him go through the floor except for the commodes.

Thanks

Cary

 

[pontiacman]

Thru the floor will allow access, and is not really any worse cosmetically unless you are looking at vanities that are elevated off the floor (legs, bunns, ect).

 

[Jeepnford]

I always go for easy accessability whenever possible.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

You all made me get up and go look, cause I couldn't remember where I ran mine.
My outside wall (kitchen sink) comes up thru the floor. Interior walls are via the wall. I think that is code here, have to ask my plumber friends...

 

[AHNC]

I'm a licensed plumber. I think the interior petitions should be run in the wall. As time has gone by I have found that my opinion is not binding, however. I do think that where possible an access panel should back up that wall. For instance, does the tub/shower have a closet behind it? If so, put an access panel there. It is easier for the plumber to simply stub up through the floor, but you give up storage space. Not a popular option with "she who must be obeyed"...if you get my drift.

A bit of info for you. I recently remodelled the 3 bathrooms in the house. The upstairs baths are back to back and have within a couple feet of each other the same amount of pipe to the shower. Same valve/showerhead. The kids bath is piped with pex and the master with copper. There is a significant decrease in water pressure in the kids bath. This is due to the brass fittings at approx 5/16-3/8" ID crimped inside the pex, effectively bushing down the pipe size. The copper is 1/2" ID and the system performance is much better.

ONe thing I added to our master was a Toto toilet, imho, the best. To that I attached the Washlet 300 seat. Now you may laugh but a heated seat is nice and I shave my head, so a wash and dry on the other end is nice!

How are you heating your hot water?

 

[bake321]

AHNC

After much study I decided to keep it simple and I am going with a standard electric water heater. After working as a Ultra-pure water technician for the last fifteen years, when I found out that the tankless units needed to go through a descaling cleaning on a regular basis, I said screw that.

Cary

 

[AHNC]

AHNC

After much study I decided to keep it simple and I am going with a standard electric water heater. After working as a Ultra-pure water technician for the last fifteen years, when I found out that the tankless units needed to go through a descaling cleaning on a regular basis, I said screw that.

Cary

The descaling depends upon your water quality. I'm assuming that you know what you have there so well enough.

As to your elec water heater, if you are not going with tankless or solar, I would strongly recommend a hot water heat pump. Tax credits will pay for it and it will reduce you bill substantially.

 

[Kays Supply]

AHNC, I to am a plumber, in Illinois. They have just adopted PEX into our code. The thing they did here ,that is a double edge sword, is make us size all piping by the ID of the smallest fitting. So we have to run 3/4 " PEX where we run 1/2" copper and 1" for 3/4" etc. The 1 1/4" PEX is a real pain.

What do you do with the heat pump water heater cooled air in the winter?
They haven't started using them here yet. I just want to be up on them when they do.

So far the tankless units are having some issues around here with build up. The water savers get plugged and cause short cycling. Or they cut corners and put in too small a unit and the flow restrictors cause issues when using multiple hot faucets.

 

[bake321]

Did some research on the heat pump water heaters and they are saying to only use them in 40 to 90 degree climates. Also, seem to be in the development stage and more geared to commercial applications. Educate me AHNC, but know that I am getting to old to be very adventurous.

Cary

 

[Pops15]

Need help from the plumbers and others. I'm ready to hire a plumber for the house we are building. I'm real pleased with one candidate, but he runs the supply lines from the crawl space to sinks, etc through the floor instead of in the wall. His point of being able to fix potential problems in the future is well taken, but seems to me that it makes a much cleaner install coming out of the wall. What do you all think?

Cary

For interior walls its standard practice to run supplies in the walls. Exterior walls the supplies come through the floor so they don't freeze. You won't have any problem with properly installed copper supplies in interior walls. There are prefab bumpers (air chambers) with tee's available to cut down on the number of sweat joints in the wall.
Just don't run supplies horizontally in the walls or you'll run the risk of a drywall screw going through a pipe.

According to code (at least in this area) S traps are not allowed. That means the sink drains go through the wall.....they could go through the floor but a P trap would have to be tied into a tee with the vent routed from the top of the tee back into the wall then upwards. That would be a very messy looking rough in.

 

[bake321]

Pops,
Everyone is using CVPC for supply lines around here. I'm more comfortable with it than Pex.

Cary

 

[Coyote machine]

If you're talking new vs. renovation construction you can spray foam the wall cavity where pipes need to go through the wall instead of the floor. Of course living in the real south you probably don't have too much need or use for spray foaming as a way to insulate- but it is the absolute best approach to insulation bar none. It is costly to do a large area up front but it pays off over time going forward year after year.
We're using a BASF closed cell foam in my new barn, and the addition on the house. The barn is just about insulated now, (and with NO sheetrock yet), and outdoor temps in the mid 30's we are not using any heat, unless a door is opened for a while. Temp is set at essentially off on barn/garage t-stat at 55 degrees. Most of the rough in plumbing is run under the floors and in a large chase that has access from underneath and a cleanout access too. Bathrooms etc. are run inside interior walls with access if necessary. Pex is good for radiant heat, and it has good flow characteristics due to essentially no elbows, etc.

 

[matt_isserstedt]

I'd just add if you have a "problem area" when a cold snap comes thru - being prepared with a 100W incandescent light bulb will usually get you thru. In an enclosed area such as under-counter it will generate nearly 100W of heat for pennies per day.

The time-tested solution of course is to leave a slow drip on the faucet in question but somehow I find that harder to remember or seemingly more wasteful. Also can present problems where there is a toilet involved as those seem to "trickle" at every time except when you really want it to .