plowing - what's wrong?

/ plowing - what's wrong? #1  

lcorrell

New member
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
15
Location
Indiana
I'm totaly new to this, so keep that in mind. I have a 27hp 2wd Satoh with a FEL. My wife and I decided to turn part of our yard into a garden this year, so I borrowed an 2 bottom plow from a friend with a 9N. My Satoh is about the same size as his ford. I don't know if I have the plow adjustment wrong, if the ground is too wet, or if my tractor is just too small, but I can't plow a darn thing! Maybe it's the sod making it too hard to plow? I can't even go deep enough to scrape the sod off the top of the ground before my tractor just starts spinning the tires and digging in! The Satoh has loaded agg tires and a diff lock, but not enough traction. I can start with the plow just low enough to start digging in and go about 4 feet before the tractor starts spinning and stops in its tracks. Then I can lift the plow and get going again, but it just repeats this over and over. I guess if I was a farmer, my family would starve.

Can anyone give any advise to someone so new to this that I have no clue what I am doing?
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #2  
Probably to much plow for the tractor,,, I have 26 hp fwd but the tires are not loaded and 2x14 are to much in sod, I could load the tires but then it's heavy for mowing,,, better to run 1x14, easier on the machine.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #3  
Not enough tractor or too much plow. You MIGHT have enough horsepower, but that tractor is a little on the light side for a 2-bottom plow, especially in sod. With enough ballast added, you'll still be right on the fine line with HP for breaking sod.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #4  
try it with just one of them engaged.....you may be able to flip up and secure the furthest back one so you are just pulling one. i have a similar HP tractor but its fwd (like js said) and sometimes the sod will stop me or twist the tractor around. wet as long as its not muddy is easier than dry.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #5  
my TC33 will barely pull my 2x14 bottom. If turning virgin sod it works much better if i adjust things so only 1 plow is cutting.

when i turned last years garden for a second time, i was able to pull both, but it wasnt easy and i could tell having the plow setup correctly makes a big difference.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #6  
Ihad difficulty last year plowing sod with a 2 bottom 12" behind a 30 Hp 4WD (Kubota B7800). I removed 1 bottom and it went much easier. Soon I'll try it with 2 bottoms in ground which was plowed last year. Removing one bottom might help.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #7  
It's not the engine HP that is important in ground engaging, It's the HP that you can put on the ground by the tires. The old Oil pulls and steam tractors done well to develop 10 HP and could slip 4 or 5 plows in the ground and walk off with them. They were heavy and made a big footprint. With your tractor a tiller would be a better option for breaking ground. If your set on plowing get a single 12 or 14 inch plow. Find someone who knows how to setup a plow on a tractor to help you the first time. Even big tractors struggle if the point of draft and angle are not set right.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong?
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Thanks for the input. I really looked this plow over last night and there aren't many adjustment provisions on it. There is no way to remove one bottom from this plow, so that option won't work. I tried "polishing" and oiling the plow surfaces to see if that would help. I tried several top link adjustments for the angle of the plow. I also tried adjusting the side to side tilt from one extreme all the way to the other to try to get only one bottom to engage. Nothing seemed to help one bit.

The whole idea behind starting the garden this year was to try to save a little money, so buying or renting any equipment is out - there is no budget for this project. Besides, they want $200 to rent a 50" 3pt tiller for 24 hrs! The plow and a small disc were free to borrow from a friend who hasn't used them in 10+ years, so it was worth a try. I don't know anyone with a tractor mount tiller that I can borrow. I have now made a mess of about 100ft x 30ft of our yard that I guess I will have to try to till with a little 18" hand opperated tiller that I can borrow. I am very dissappointed with my tractor at this point since this was one of the main purposes of the purchase! Maybe in the years to come I can find the budget to buy a one bottom plow and try again.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #9  
Well if you can find someone with a boxblade, they are pretty good at ripping things up,,, just adjust the toplink short and set the scarrifers low, and keep the blade out of the dirt. I have a plow but don't use it anymore,, I use the boxblade to rip things up, works good as long as you don't have much trash to cover.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #10  
Maybe you could loosen the ground enough with your loader to make tilling with a small walk behind a little easier. Tilt your bucket to take a deep bite in the soil and then even if you can only sink it 6 inches curl your bucket and rip out a chunk. Back up a little and do it again. Works better with a tooth bar but even if you don't have one it will help when you go to use the tiller.
Basically thats way to much plow for your tractor.
four wheel drive in a small tractor is an immense advantage.
Y&B
 
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/ plowing - what's wrong? #11  
Check on my post on Spading a garden. Do that and you may be able to pull the plough.:D
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #12  
lcorrell said:
I'm totaly new to this, so keep that in mind. I have a 27hp 2wd Satoh with a FEL. My wife and I decided to turn part of our yard into a garden this year, so I borrowed an 2 bottom plow from a friend with a 9N. My Satoh is about the same size as his ford. I don't know if I have the plow adjustment wrong, if the ground is too wet, or if my tractor is just too small, but I can't plow a darn thing! Maybe it's the sod making it too hard to plow? I can't even go deep enough to scrape the sod off the top of the ground before my tractor just starts spinning the tires and digging in! The Satoh has loaded agg tires and a diff lock, but not enough traction. I can start with the plow just low enough to start digging in and go about 4 feet before the tractor starts spinning and stops in its tracks. Then I can lift the plow and get going again, but it just repeats this over and over. I guess if I was a farmer, my family would starve.

Can anyone give any advise to someone so new to this that I have no clue what I am doing?

Draft control. If the plow is sinking in to deep, you will stop the tractor. I do not not know if your Satoh is equipped with draft control (2nd lever by the 3ph control) but it will allow you to set the depth the plow can cut in ( say 8" ) which will also put weight on the back tires created by the sucking action of the plow.

Paul
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #13  
I think if you investigate a little further, you will find that one bottom can be removed from that plow. It has not been used in 10 years. Do you know anyone with a torch? Before you do that, look it over good. The bolt heads on the face of the plow are usually worn in flush and difficult to see, but the nuts on the back side are easy to find. Spray them up with pb-blaster, take them off, pound out the bolts, and remove the rear bottom.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #14  
I'll try to explain how to set your plows. Mount your plows and find a good level place to preferably on concrete. With ramps and blocks raise the right side of the tractor up the depth you want to plow. If you want to plow 8 inches deep the use 8 inch blocks. Let your lift down to where the plows are just an inch or so off the ground. Now you want to level the plows side to side by adjusting the tilt bar. After you get the side to side level adjust the third arm till you get the plows level from front to back. When you get everything set right, Let your lift down and the plows should be setting level on the ground. This will get you really close when you go back out in the field. A little tweaking might be needed but you should still be able to plow.
Option: B Go buy one of those cheap middle busters like TSC and other places sell and drag that through your ground. It won't be pretty but it will get you by. A disk will smooth it out afterwards.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong?
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Well guys I managed to turn this 2-bottom plow into a 1-1/2 bottom plow I guess. I took the moldboard and cutting edge off one side so just the frame is left on that one. My tractor still wont pull it! I was really upset after spending half a day breaking rusty bolts off this thing only to get the same results. My tractor does not have draft control, it has what Satoh calls position control, but that's not the problem. It turns out the dealer lied to me when I got this tractor 2 years ago. They told me the tires were loaded and based on my crude test they are not! I positioned the valve stems so they were at the bottom and pushed the valve in - nothing but air! No wonder this thing has such tracton problems with this heavy loader on the front and no counter weight on the back.

So, I guess I need to load the tires. What are my options and what are the costs? Anything I can do myself for dirt cheap?
 
/ plowing - what's wrong?
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Well, this gets weird-er. I decided I would load the tires myself with straight water to get this garden done, then I could drain them before winter. Both tires already have tubes. I started with the opposite side from the one I had checked last week that just had air in it. I started removing the valve stem and got squirted! Yep, one tire is loaded and one isn't! I guess the dealer only half lied to me about the tires being loaded. This one tire is fully loaded and the other, which obviously has a new tube, is just air filled. They are 11.2-24s, so I will only be adding like 150-200 lbs by loading the other tire. I don't think that is going to be enough to make a huge difference in traction that I need to pull this plow. So, I give up on the plowing. I tilled the garden to about 2" deep with a borrowed hand opperated tiller - that's all it could manage.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #17  
did you try taking the loader off? i assume you are running a rear wheel drive only tractor, so no plowing advantage to keeping the loader on the front except for steering. taking off the loader could give significantly more traction to the rear tires - even more than loading the rears.

don't give up!

i just plowed my little garden space with a single bottom i rigged up to my 25 hp kubota. i did have 4x4, but plowed without the loader on the front since i had minimal maneuvering room. i got stuck a few times - it was very wet and soggy clay - but did get it done.

there is not comparison in my mind between what a good mold board plow can do vs. a tiller. the plow turns the soil over and leaves big chunks intact whereas a tiller is going to pulverize the soil which makes pretty planting beds, but doesn't help you in the long run with organic structure, root zone drainage, etc.

amp
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #18  
just help me out: 27 hp Satoh ? Satoh is the american trade name for Mitsubishi or Iseki tractors ?

If it is built the same way as a Kubby, Kioti or Iseki, i guess the tractor would weigh less than a ton. The 11.2-24 tires should be enough in dry conditions to put 27 hp to the ground.

Also, what tires do you have ? Thise Japanese rice field tires with 3 inch lugs on them ? My neighbour had a Kubota B7000 with those tires, the rear end would sit on the ground after 3 wheel turns. Those tires arent suitable for normal soil, only for sucking mud, or bone dry clay because they dig in so easy.

I plough with a Zetor 5245 with loader (close to 4 ton) about 10 to 12 inches deep, with a 3 furrow 16" reversible plough, it doesnt make much difference in traction, on cultivated soil or solid sod, the only thing you notice is that it runs on 1800 rpm instead of 2000 when you hit the spots that havent been cultivated. Sod requires more traction, but it also gives more traction to the wheels if you have normal Ag tires.
This tractor is puttign out near 55 hp but its the sheer weight and tires that keeps it going with this darn heavy plough. (it weighs nearly a ton !)


You also might have the problem that the bottom of the plough is worn off, so that the weight of the sod on top of the moldboard, is carried by the underside of the landside of the plough. According to Harry Ferguson, a plough should have a good "underbite" to prevent hard pan forming (no weight sliding over the soil down the furrow) and to generate traction: the rear axle should carry the full weight of the soil on the moldboards, this creates great traction.
With my tractor and plough, when hitting a hard spot i can lift the front of the tractor, including the heavy loader, out of the ground and work through the hard spot with only the rear wheels touching. It bellies out the 16.9-30 rears, and gives incredible traction.


If your plough doesnt have the "underbite" you can fix it by welding a chunk of old leaf spring (nearly as wear resistant as a real plough chisel) on the inner tip of the moldboard, extending at least an inch under the landslide.

removing only the moldboard, not the arm, will not decrease the required traction because it will drag through the soil instead of lifting it.
If your friend hasnt used it in 10 years, is he o.k. if you cut it off completely ?
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #19  
slipshot77
Thanks for the plow adjustment lesson. I've done reasonably well by guess and looking at the plow geometry but it is nice to see a bone' fide method for adjustment...I'll try it next time.
 
/ plowing - what's wrong? #20  
i have a powerking only 14 horsepower and plow quite a bit
with it obviously only a 1 bottom plow.plowing with a small tractor
is a artform everything must be set up correctly. i have made a
fool out of myself a few times. here is a thread from previous post
suddenly i have forgot to post pictures. once you get the first row
cut it gets alot easier.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/vintage-tractors/115931-powerkings.html
 

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