Offered another unusual project

[dodge man]

It is usually against regulations to divert drainage from one area to another. This is usually larger areas though, such as diverting one creek into another that doesn’t do it naturally. In this case it looks like the water goes into the ponds from the roof anyway. I’m not sure who if anybody is going to worry about it.

Computations could be done to calculate how much water is coming off the roofs.

 

[RVGuy]

Have a long time customer. It's a large acreage HOA with several fields to be hayed and large grass areas to be mowed.
They also have 3 small ponds.
1 pond is spring fed. The spring has unexpectedly dried up. I dont know a lot about the life cycle of springs, so I don't know if they can also come back to life, but it's been on the decline for about a year.
The pond is down to 10-20% (best guess). Water is evaporating, so diminishing with each passing day. There is no other natural water source to replace it nearby. The property owners would like to keep the pond, but are not of unlimited wealth.

Here is the only 2 ways I can think of to replenish the pond:
1. Drill a well. But how much the well gives in GPH is anyone's guess. Very rough estimated cost is about $10,000.

2. The current building the owners live in is uphill from the pond, about 300-500' away in a PUD building of 6 condominium units. Only a small part of the building currently has gutters and downspouts. I was contemplating installing hundreds of feet of 5" gutter, with 3x4 down spouts on the building and running all the down spouts into a continuous rain water retention system. Rather than running the underground pipe into a typical large stone pit, instead run the water directly into the pond.
Realize there's no guarantee it'll rain enough to keep the pond full, but other than that, that's the only reasonable sources of water I can come up with. The roofs areas are pretty large. I suppose there's a roof water runoff calculator that can help calculate.
Another noteworthy point is the other ponds, about 1/4 mile away each, are also spring fed, but not low on water. So that tells me it's probably not a drought issue?

This is all in the "talking/ideas" phase. I have installed several rainwater retention systems, so this is nothing new for me from an installation perspective.
I just don't know if it's enough water?
Pond is triangular about 150' on each leg and averages about 4-5' deep.

Don't want to install something that won't work or lessen my reputation with customer. Another thing definitely worth mentioning is the customer also has some desire to have gutters and downspouts installed to get roof runoff away from the building, so there could be a 2-fer type of benefit in helping to keep water from damaging building foundations
View attachment 3361235

Something to consider is how the spring feeds the pond. At my place, the spring is actually uphill of my pond about 30 feet vertically, but 50 yards away. The spring was tapped by cutting a trench into the spring seep, dropping in some small perf pipe and back filling with gravel. Then a collector pipe was run underground to a water trough about 1/2 way between the pond and spring. The outfall from the spring empties into the water trough providing year-round water to my horses. Just below the top of the trough is an outlet tap that then directs the excess water to the pond. I have had a couple of issues over time with the outlet at the pond getting clogged with sediment. I just use a source of compressed air to blow out the pipe between the trough and pond to restore flow.
I can see the flow coming from the spring. It varies with the season and how much rain/snow I get here in the Pacific Northwest. If the outfall line is clogged, the trough overflows because it can't drain the excess water. That tells me I need to clean out the line. It's worked for about 50 years.

 

[Snobdds]

My lake varies drastically between spring and fall. It also varies drastically between wet and dry years.

Haven't you guys been dry lately?

 

[RammerJammer]

I hate to pop yr bubble but do some digging around before ya. invest in all the rain gutters . In several states it is against the law to harvest rain water . It is here in Calif but ya'all probably figured that anyways .
animal12

Oh my gosh . . . "Illegal" to "harvest" rainwater??!!

Kalifornia really needs to dry up and blow away.

Rain falls on my property and I cannot do what I want with it? Does that apply to air, dew and sunlight? Time to move, dude.

 

[EddieWalker]

That's a very nice looking lake!!!!

 

[RVGuy]

Oh my gosh . . . "Illegal" to "harvest" rainwater??!!

Kalifornia really needs to dry up and blow away.

Rain falls on my property and I cannot do what I want with it? Does that apply to air, dew and sunlight? Time to move, dude.

Same here in Oregon. They claim they own the rainwater. However, if their rainwater floods your property, you and your insurance company get to pay for the damage. That ain't their fault.
To add insult to injury, there is a bill in the Oregon State legislature that wants to install flow meters on wells to charge you for the ground water you use on your property. They won't reimburse you for the cost of the well and pumping, but will charge you for each gallon you use of their water. It's just a proposed bill at this point, but gives you an idea how insane things can get in this state.

 

[Snobdds]

That's a very nice looking lake!!!!

The state is pissed I have senior water rights from a hundred years ago for it. I swear, I keep an attorney pretty much employed full time defending all the various people that want the water.

It's crazy how valuable water is in the west...

 

[EddieWalker]

Is that Wyoming? I always thought that was a good state for ranchers.

 

[Chewwy]

Get an old Water Witch out there to see if the supply is still around but just rerouted, not going in the pond... that can be fun.
I hired one such old Indian guy when I needed a new well to show me where the water was, and he was right.

Is the “Indian” guy native American or Asian?

 

[GWagon]

No nothing. No mining, developing, ponds, etc.

It could be as innocent as a new roadway within 5 miles. My family always had a fairly shallow freshwater well, supplied all the water one could want. A new roadway within 5 miles and the well went dry, 55 years was a good run.

 

[Hay Dude]

Sometimes the easiest way to preserve your reputation is to tell the customer that you’re unqualified to assess the project and maybe refer them to a knowledgeable engineer.

Funny….“them” is me. Bunch of rich elderly people without a clue what to do, so they ask me to fix everything.
I am consulting with an engineer for roof-runoff calculations.
FYI: Engineers have called me to do jobs like this in the past.

Engineers are great, but typically like to sit in air conditioned offices and drink coffee all day.
Someone like me has to do the actual work.

All in the planning stages now.

 

[Hay Dude]

If the square footage of roof foot print is equal to the square footage of the pond, then assuming it had vertical sides like a pool, in theory you could potentially add 43” (PA’s annual rainfall) to its height—over 1 year’s time. Those banks look pretty shallow, so I expect the actual water height increase would be much less.

Does the spring originate in the pond or above the pond? If in the pond you may be limited by hydraulic pressure and won’t see any improvement. Likewise, if there is a leak/drain somewhere.
You’ll have to play with the math based on roof area and slope of the pond.
From the house foundation point of view, 100 sq’ of roof foot print will collect 62.3 gallons of water per inch of rain—when it’s not coming down so fast it runs over the gutters. You need to move that somewhere else anyway.

It originates about 300’ above the pond.

 

[Hay Dude]

Attending their HOA meeting Wednesday night. Should get a good feel for how the residents want to proceed. There’s 6 “luxury” units in those buildings, but they don’t like spending much on anything.
I’d drill a non potable well with some kind of float or water level switch and start enjoying the pond again, but it ain’t my money.

 

[ericm979]

I hate to pop yr bubble but do some digging around before ya. invest in all the rain gutters . In several states it is against the law to harvest rain water . It is here in Calif

It's legal in California. You have to get a permit.

here's the laws for each state:

Is it Illegal to Collect Rainwater: 2025 Complete State Guide

A full list of the laws for rainwater harvesting by each state supported by links to current state legislation, government websites, and Senate, House, and Assembly Bills…

worldwaterreserve.com

Check with the local conservation district. There may be incentives that you can take advantage of, or you can at least find out what's legal and get advice.

 

[John Joseph McVeigh]

Oh my gosh . . . "Illegal" to "harvest" rainwater??!!

Kalifornia really needs to dry up and blow away.

Rain falls on my property and I cannot do what I want with it? Does that apply to air, dew and sunlight? Time to move, dude.

It might seem strange to people in Eastern and MidWestern States... it certainly seemed strange to me when I first read about it... but restrictions on capturing or changing the natural flow of rainwater are common in the arid West... and not just in California. A whole body of law has evolved in Western States concerning water. That is because water is a scarce resource in those States.

 

[Streetcar]

Attending their HOA meeting Wednesday night. Should get a good feel for how the residents want to proceed. There’s 6 “luxury” units in those buildings, but they don’t like spending much on anything.
I’d drill a non potable well with some kind of float or water level switch and start enjoying the pond again, but it ain’t my money.

Haydude
After further thought, I think you have a bigger problem than spring drying up. In southern Ohio we have had a wet spring and ponds are full. This site appears to be leaking water, since the pond is very low. Tree root can create channels to drain pond. If pond is leaking the additional water will not be permanent fix

 

[Hay Dude]

Haydude
After further thought, I think you have a bigger problem than spring drying up. In southern Ohio we have had a wet spring and ponds are full. This site appears to be leaking water, since the pond is very low. Tree root can create channels to drain pond. If pond is leaking the additional water will not be permanent fix

Well, if the spring dried up late last summer and the water level began falling shortly thereafter, one would think theres a correlation.
We do have to look at everything though.

 

[Ken45101]

We have a pond that never overflows but does drop own a couple of feet in summer. I wanted to get more water in it so I graded a shallow ditch across the hillside above it to collect water coming down the hill and direct it to the pond. It helped some in winter (heavy rains) but still not much in summer. Assuming it is springfed, I have to wonder if addng more water causes the spring to drain the extra water out?

Ken

 

[ning]

That's a very nice looking lake!!!!

Granite Springs reservoir WY

 

[Hay Dude]

Spoke with one of the owners and they seem to be leaning towards cleaning out the stream from the spring and the pond. This will entail a good amount of brush cutting and maybe some ditching with the excavator.
Then we will see what the status of the spring is.
I bet that the stream, which is just a trickle, is obstructed to the point of water just not making it to the pond anymore.