New Tooth Bar Observations

SevenCorners · Oct 1, 2004

I just finished welding up and installing my new tooth bar. I went down to the South Fourty to try it out. This thing can dig. I was totally unimpressed with the standard bucket, it had difficulty in my clay soil. Well big difference now I put a tooth bar on. I tried it out on a couple of stubborn tree stumps. After a couple of minutes of back and forth digging, pop out they come. I can even pull and push the tractor uphill with the loader something I was not able to do before. One thing that now becomes clear is just how under powered the Jinma loader Hydralics are. I would like to swap out the smaller hydro cyclinders for something with more meat. I can get the bucket up under a large stump but the loader just doesn't have enough umph to lift it out of the soil. I have some pictures if anyone is interested in the construction. It was very simple I bought the teeth from a company called Fabco. I got 7 of them for like $50, I went down to the local scrap yard and got a 5' piece if 1/4" steel for free and a couple of bolts. A few welds later its good to go. I looked at prices from a local dealer, he wanted $350 I thought he was crazy considering he was going to do the same thing I did.

JohnS · Oct 1, 2004

Would like to see a couple of those pictures. On Jinma 200 series w/ZL20s, not sure if new cylinders, will get you all that you want. I know that the Koyker 160 have a 2" cyl option. I believe they provide a little more power, at the expense of speed. The limiting factor will quickly become the pump, which is around 800lbs.

SevenCorners · Oct 1, 2004

It is a shame, I was really expecting more from my loader than what I get. Hopefully I will get better with practice. Here are a couple of pictures, sorry for the mud. As you can see there is not much too it. I drilled a couple of holes into the sides of the bucket to hold it in place. After I got working I noticed that the middle part of the bar was under extra stress so I drilled 2 holes on the bottom of the bucket and bolted down the front for extra reinforcment it works great.

SevenCorners · Oct 1, 2004

Another shot

SevenCorners · Oct 1, 2004

Another one

SevenCorners · Oct 1, 2004

Last one unless someone wants to see it in action.

JohnS · Oct 1, 2004

Thanks for the pics. I have looked at the bolt-on tooth bars, but never pulled the trigger. Not a welder either, so I just have to wait /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Are you able to lift your tractor off the ground? It is possible that the relief pressure is set too low. Unfortunatly, I don't know of a safe way to adjust it. Would need to tie in some pressure gauges, for sure.

Not aware of any factory replacement 2" cyl. Don't know if Koyker's would fit and would have to change fittings.

SevenCorners · Oct 1, 2004

John I am not a welder either, I just saw a posting on the Customization section of TBN and it looked so simple that I thought what the heck, I bought an inexpensive stick welder $150 and practiced a couple of times, nothing to it really...

I am able to lift the tractor off the ground with the bucket. I had problems dragging the whole tractor forward before the teeth because on my terran the bucket kept slipping, now I just roll the bucket back, push down then roll it forward. I am sure that it will lift up to 800#s I had my BB on the back of my truck and it lifted it with ease, it weighs 600#.
I guess I should not have purchased the Chinese loader and instead gotten a Koyker. Do you know how much more the koyker will lift? Is the low lift capacity a result of small hydro pump or small lift cyc? or both? How expensive would it be to increase capacity?

GRUMPA · Oct 1, 2004

7 check here for specs on Koyker.

Koyker Loaders

SevenCorners · Oct 1, 2004

Thanks, did you happen to notice that lift capacity is 1500#, almost double the standard ZL loader. Hmm should have could have if only... I wonder if it is the 2" hydr cyc's that give it the extra lift capacity?

GRUMPA · Oct 1, 2004

That answer would take someone more knowledgable than myself. Right of the top of my head I would say no. Dont forget you start modifying things like that, that arent designed for it things will bend/break.

Harrygoodwrench · Oct 1, 2004

Seven,
I have the same 224 as you, exception is I have the Koyker(Pronounced Quaker) Don't ask me why its pronounced that way. Well, the Koyker does have a greater lift capacity and much finer control than the ZL-20 but you just can't exceed the limitations of the tractor itself. We are talking a machine that weighs 3K trying to lift 1.5K???? that is insane. Sure it might lift it a few inches off the ground but thats all I'd try. I've lifted a bunch of stone and moved it (about 800 lbs) but very carefully. It would lift much more but why abuse it and safety is a major factor. 3 trips "safe", outweighs 2 trips "unsafe".

F100Panel · Oct 2, 2004

HarryG has a point.... Lift capacity has more to due with PSI feeding the cylinders & size of the cylinder. You could go to a 5 inch cylinder with the same supplied PSI & have enough lift power to flatten the front axel but it won't do much good if the tractor can't handle the weight. I'm always whinning about the standard Jinma turf tires are undersized for loader work/GOTTA have'm though....The AG's kill the lawn... Even when overinflated to 30PSI the turf tire sidewalls collapse to the side with a full bucket when turning or on a slight sidehill. Getting back to Harry's point, TRUE I should just cut down how much I put in the bucket & make a few extra trips but like everybody else...always hurry'in.... On the other hand.. DID ANYONE NOTICE THE FRONT TIRES IN THE PICTURE OF THE YELLOW TRACTOR IN JAYC'S POST in the tooth bar thread? A set of those ( with correct gearing..) would solve that tractor carry capacity problem..... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SevenCorners · Oct 2, 2004

Yeah I agree that you reach a point where lifting any more weight is dangerous and over the capacity of the tractor. I was only saying that I would like more lift capacity to remove stubborn stumps where my bucket would remain low and tip over conditions are min. I would not want to lift 1000's # very high!
I would like a set of those turf tires too, the width of the rears look like they would improve hill stability. Why does Jinma put such narrow tires on their tractors? Is it to help them fit inside the shipping container?

rdln · Oct 5, 2004

Seven, I talked to Kelly at fabco, and he recommended the 23 series pin on tooth and shank, faxed me a print but after looking at my cutting edge and bucket wall thickness totaled .5in minus the gap on the shank leaves me with .91" bar which is overkill and over budget.

what Part no. tooth and shank did you use? And if you went with a thicker bar do you think you could have avoided the fasteners in the middle?

I want to build one for myself and my step FIL.

Thanks

SevenCorners · Oct 5, 2004

Steve,
I got 16S7-8-3C adaptors and 8103C teeth. They are crimp on teeth, I had to weld them on to the adaptors but shouldn't be too hard to change them when needed. Here is their web site for reference Fabco .
I could not go with thicker material because 1/4" was tight under the adaptors. 1/2" would not have fit. I don't know about the 23 series I could not find any adaptor specs on their website. I think if you went with thicker material say 1/2" it might eliminate the flex. That said I don't know if you will have enough room under the adaptor to use 1/2" without notching. If you notch the steel that will essentially weaken the bond between adaptor, steel plate and bucket This will limit the structurally benefits of thicker steel.

Tractors4u · Oct 5, 2004

John is correct, getting bigger cylinders will slow you down. The pump output is the key. A friend of mine that imports and sells both grey market and Jinma tractors was amazed at the speed of my JD 4310's loader. He installs loaders on both the Yanmars and Jinmas. He uses Koyker loaders and the Yanmars will typically run the loader faster than the Jinma. It is all in the hydraulic pump and where the relief valve is set.