My NX6010

[RDrancher]

I must say that this is the most entertaining thread going. Man...the CARNAGE!

 

[countrybumpkin]

Are the threads on the quick connect not BSPP ? If so just get a Bspp male to 1/2 npt and use a standard pioneer quick connect. That way if you have any problems with them later you can purchase them just about any farm store.

 

[Threepoint]

I had to do some fitting of the 3" tilting cylinder that I got from MIE. By eyeball (and that's all you can do), it looked like the lower clevis hole was the same length at the longest (or bottom) clevis hole on the fixed link (18.5"), but when mounted, the three point sagged on the right side even when the ram was fully retracted. As a result, I drilled a new hole at an eyeballed 17" and used the fixed link's middle hole which measures 17.5" center to center. With this change, my three point was level when fully collapsed. My thinking is that hydraulic side links may all require a little fitting. Buy a 3/4" drill bit.

[snip]

I haven't ordered my hydraulic sidelink yet, but when I do, I may be facing the same issue. Rather than redrill the clevis to better match the fixed, left-hand sidelink, couldn't you just replace the fixed link with the OEM adjustable link that you removed? Then make the one-time leveling adjustment on that side?

Great review of the Frontier BB.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I haven't ordered my hydraulic sidelink yet, but when I do, I may be facing the same issue. Rather than redrill the clevis to better match the fixed, left-hand sidelink, couldn't you just replace the fixed link with the OEM adjustable link that you removed? Then make the one-time leveling adjustment on that side?

Great review of the Frontier BB.

As you suggest would be easiest, but the new tilting ram uses the factory adjustable link's longer top clevis pin. Since I was in the field, and Kioti uses a weird, metric pin size, I didn't have access to another longer pin I needed to transfer the factory adjustable link to the right side unless I patiently turned a larger pin down using a grinding wheel (it's all I have there). For me it was easier to drill a new hole. Moreover, the new hole allows me to lift whatever is attached on the three point just a little higher, a benefit I like considering the terrain I'm encountering.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Are the threads on the quick connect not BSPP ? If so just get a Bspp male to 1/2 npt and use a standard pioneer quick connect. That way if you have any problems with them later you can purchase them just about any farm store.

Offhand, I thought they were German metric, but you may be right, they may be BSPP. My local Fleet didn't have what I needed and so I went to a hydraulic fittings jobber. I didn't think of using an adaptor, but that isn't a bad idea.

Another of my neighbor's signs.

 

[Threepoint]

As you suggest would be easiest, but the new tilting ram uses the factory adjustable link's longer top clevis pin. Since I was in the field, and Kioti uses a weird, metric pin size, I didn't have access to another longer pin I needed to transfer the factory adjustable link to the right side unless I patiently turned a larger pin down using a grinding wheel (it's all I have there). For me it was easier to drill a new hole. Moreover, the new hole allows me to lift whatever is attached on the three point just a little higher, a benefit I like considering the terrain I'm encountering.[snip]

Ahh, o.k. Out of curiosity, I just went out and checked the lengths of the top left and right clevis pins for the factory sidelinks on my NX4510 and fortunately they are both the same, 75 mm (nominally 2-15/16"). So I should be able to use either one for the hydr. link and switch the adjustable link to the left side without that complication. I know the lift arms and lower link arms on your NX6010 are set up differently than on my NX4510 since they handle Cat 2.

Are you happy so far with the DIY check valve assembly that you made up for the MIE sidelink? I'll probably go the same route, regardless of which vendor I use, unless I can find a vendor that will supply one with the cylinder. Is there anything you'd do differently in putting it together? The standoffs that you used look like they put the check valve further away from the cylinder than I'd prefer, but I gather they don't create any new clearance issues or make the connections less stable.

 

[Threepoint]

Eric, further on the check valve issue, I just talked to Bob Piro at MIE about ordering up a hydraulic side link ram (2-1/2" cylinder is all I think I'll need) for my NX4510HST. Told him I would be adding a double-piloted lock valve to whatever I got, and he surprised me by saying he could go ahead and add one for me for another $80. Seems like a good way to go, with very reasonable pricing, unless I'm missing something. Did you perhaps already have your check valve components when you ordered your ram?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Eric, further on the check valve issue, I just talked to Bob Piro at MIE about ordering up a hydraulic side link ram (2-1/2" cylinder is all I think I'll need) for my NX4510HST. Told him I would be adding a double-piloted lock valve to whatever I got, and he surprised me by saying he could go ahead and add one for me for another $80. Seems like a good way to go, with very reasonable pricing, unless I'm missing something. Did you perhaps already have your check valve components when you ordered your ram?

I'm happy with it so far. If you look at my Frontier BB review video, I've got a hydraulic leak on the upper compression fitting apparently from not tightening everything up enough in the field (I left the 1-1/4" wrench I need to hold the check valve body at home and I try to not automatically tighten everything stupid tight to avoid over-torquing stuff).

At any-rate, I asked Bob about check/locking valves when I ordered, and he stated that they didn't offer the feature. But people are quick to offer what others are willing to pay for, and I know this thread alone will drive them sales. All to say that $80 bucks for a double-acting pilot-pressure controlled check valve is a good deal. The only downside from my use comes from running my rotary cutter knocking down stands of aspen and the chance that a random stump will get into there and bash it.

On the other hand, my rotary cutter and tractor started earning some money clearing a section of lake shore a couple of weeks ago.

Here is the photo EA should share with anybody who asks how strong their wicked root grapple is!

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm happy with it so far. If you look at my Frontier BB review video, I've got a hydraulic leak on the upper compression fitting apparently from not tightening everything up enough in the field (I left the 1-1/4" wrench I need to hold the check valve body at home and try I to not automatically tighten everything stupid tight to avoid over-torquing stuff). At any-rate, I asked Bob about check/locking valves when I ordered, and he stated that they didn't offer the feature. But people are quick to offer what others are willing to pay for, and I know this thread alone will drive them sales. All to say that $80 bucks for a double-acting pilot-pressure controlled check valve is a good deal. The only downside from my use comes from running my rotary cutter knocking down stands of aspen and the chance that a random stump will get into there and bash it. On the other hand, my rotary cutter and tractor started earning some money clearing a section of lake shore a couple of weeks ago. Here is the photo EA should share with anybody asking how strong their wicked root grapple is!

I still don't get why you guys are so gaga about check valves. You'd think that a dealer line MIE would make them standard if they were so important.

 

[Threepoint]

Yep, looks like MIE has concluded the demand is strong enough to justify offering the check valve as an option. I placed my order this afternoon, so the ram should ship in about 2 weeks. A very short lead time during a very busy season for something they have to make up, IMO. They are including the two hydraulic hoses with male QD ends, plus a sock for the hoses for a tidy installation. I've heard good things about MIE on this board. They've been selling quite a few of the Kioti NX tractors, so I shouldn't have to worry about everything fitting, as long as the shop makes sure it's for an NX4510 and not an NX6010.

 

[Threepoint]

I still don't get why you guys are so gaga about check valves. You'd think that a dealer line MIE would make them standard if they were so important.

:laughing: Not gaga, Island, but I'd just prefer having one on the side link ram for the relatively small amount extra, $80, that it's going to cost. I realize many folks are happy without them. To each his own.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Yep, looks like MIE has concluded the demand is strong enough to justify offering the check valve as an option. I placed my order this afternoon, so the ram should ship in about 2 weeks. A very short lead time during a very busy season for something they have to make up, IMO. They are including the two hydraulic hoses with male QD ends, plus a sock for the hoses for a tidy installation. I've heard good things about MIE on this board. They've been selling quite a few of the Kioti NX tractors, so I shouldn't have to worry about everything fitting, as long as the shop makes sure it's for an NX4510 and not an NX6010.

And your upper pins should swap out without any hassle avoiding my in-the-middle-of-nowhere drama.

For the Cat 2 NX5510 and NX6010 owners, order the 3" tilt cylinder from MIE as well as an additional top side link pin and you'll be good and miss out being able to tell a story about drilling junk out. :thumbsup:

 

[IslandTractor]

:laughing: Not gaga, Island, but I'd just prefer having one on the side link ram for the relatively small amount extra, $80, that it's going to cost. I realize many folks are happy without them. To each his own.

I certainly agree that $80 isn't going to make a big dent in anyone's tractor budget. On the other hand, "I'd just prefer" is really not much of an argument. Would you prefer because someone else also prefers them and has made them a bit of a fad or is there a real experience driven rationale for using check valves on a CUT tilt cylinder?

MIE is a very capable dealer. Bob will sell you whatever you are willing to pay for and I'm sure it will work. I sent them a few drawings of a ripper fitting I wanted for my backhoe and they built it for a fair price. In regards to the check valve however, what is more telling is that MIE has not been offering check valves until some of you guys started asking for them. If Bob and Tony thought check valves were important I'm pretty sure they would have been suggesting them to customers rather than the other way around.

The purpose of a check valve is to prevent leak down/back flow and cylinder movement after catastrophic leakage from a broken hose etc. With a normally functioning dual acting cylinder however the amount of leak down one might expect in a working day is trivial. If you have leak down that affects grading with a rear blade or box blade then you have a defective or worn cylinder that requires replacement or repair. I can easily understand the role of check valves in cylinders where sudden failure of a line could result in an accident (excavators, man lift etc) but don't understand the use on top and tilts. And, it is still unusual to see them on top and tilts despite all the talk about them here on TBN. Again, if MIE hasn't been using them routinely, that should tell us something. Notably, it seems to be people buying new tractors (Vince excepted) who seem to want check valves before ever using the "normal" system. Are check valves "fuzzy dice" good luck charms for tractors??

 

[ZAR2USA]

I certainly agree that $80 isn't going to make a big dent in anyone's tractor budget. On the other hand, "I'd just prefer" is really not much of an argument. Would you prefer because someone else also prefers them and has made them a bit of a fad or is there a real experience driven rationale for using check valves on a CUT tilt cylinder? MIE is a very capable dealer. Bob will sell you whatever you are willing to pay for and I'm sure it will work. I sent them a few drawings of a ripper fitting I wanted for my backhoe and they built it for a fair price. In regards to the check valve however, what is more telling is that MIE has not been offering check valves until some of you guys started asking for them. If Bob and Tony thought check valves were important I'm pretty sure they would have been suggesting them to customers rather than the other way around. The purpose of a check valve is to prevent leak down/back flow and cylinder movement after catastrophic leakage from a broken hose etc. With a normally functioning dual acting cylinder however the amount of leak down one might expect in a working day is trivial. If you have leak down that affects grading with a rear blade or box blade then you have a defective or worn cylinder that requires replacement or repair. I can easily understand the role of check valves in cylinders where sudden failure of a line could result in an accident (excavators, man lift etc) but don't understand the use on top and tilts. And, it is still unusual to see them on top and tilts despite all the talk about them here on TBN. Again, if MIE hasn't been using them routinely, that should tell us something. Notably, it seems to be people buying new tractors (Vince excepted) who seem to want check valves before ever using the "normal" system. Are check valves "fuzzy dice" good luck charms for tractors??

It's not a fad, it allows you more uses and functionality with existing setup. Simply put, it turns a regular knife into a Swiss Army knife. It improves productivity and save you time lost otherwise.

 

[aczlan]

It's not a fad, it allows you more uses and functionality with existing setup. Simply put, it turns a regular knife into a Swiss Army knife. It improves productivity and save you time lost otherwise.

Please elaborate. As I see it, it costs you the ability to let the top/side link float and (if you have a non-leaking control valve) it doesn't gain you anything.

Aaron Z

 

[IslandTractor]

It's not a fad, it allows you more uses and functionality with existing setup. Simply put, it turns a regular knife into a Swiss Army knife. It improves productivity and save you time lost otherwise.

What additional functions does it enable? How does it increase productivity compared to a normally functioning cylinder without a check valve on a side link or top link?

I see Eric has already invested about half a day of his time and well over a hundred bucks so far on his check valve. How will that valve recoup that time and expense?

 

[countrybumpkin]

I may add a tilt cylinder to mine, not sure yet, but I too thought about leaving the adjustable one on, why not just install the hydro one on the left where the factory solid link is?

 

[IslandTractor]

I may add a tilt cylinder to mine, not sure yet, but I too thought about leaving the adjustable one on, why not just install the hydro one on the left where the factory solid link is?

Interesting thought, I've never heard of anyone doing that.

Possible reasons not to:
1) Common wisdom: if no one else does it it is unlikely to be all that useful
2) More stuff to adjust but as virtually any angle can be created with just one adjustable side link (hydraulic or manual) there is no particular benefit. Kind of like having two steering wheels on a car, one for left turns and one for right turns.
3) Unless you plan to do a lot of back blade/box blade work, even one adjustable side link is more of a hassle than benefit. Every time you mow you really want the side links perfectly matched and neutral. If you have the hydraulic side link adjusted otherwise you need to fiddle to get it neutral. As the controls are on the operating station but the only way to judge neutral is to sight behind the implement, that means a lot of hopping on and off the tractor to make adjustments and checking to see if you have the mower level yet. With the stock manual adjustable side link you are standing behind the tractor anyway as you fiddle with it so it is actually a bit easier than when using hydraulics.

 

[s219]

It's not a fad, it allows you more uses and functionality with existing setup. Simply put, it turns a regular knife into a Swiss Army knife. It improves productivity and save you time lost otherwise.

I agree with the others that it's mainly a bandaid if you have leak down problems. By disabling use of float, it actually eliminates one key benefit of having a hydraulic top link in some of the most desirable situations where you'd want a hydraulic top link!

For a side link, I can't say I see a need for float, so I have less of an issue there. But if you don't have leak down issues on the side link, it's not needed there either. It wouldn't buy a thing.

To be honest, after spending $$$ to put a rear remote valve stack kit on my Kubota and add a hydraulic top link, I'd be pretty annoyed if it leaked so bad I needed a check valve to hold the cylinder in place. That would kill one huge benefit I was shooting for with a float/detent valve in the stack. To the point where I might not have done it in the first place.

 

[DK35vince]

To be honest, after spending $$$ to put a rear remote valve stack kit on my Kubota and add a hydraulic top link, I'd be pretty annoyed if it leaked so bad I needed a check valve to hold the cylinder in place. That would kill one huge benefit I was shooting for with a float/detent valve in the stack. To the point where I might not have done it in the first place.

Some leakage in a top link would likely not be that noticeable or much of an issue.
Any leakage, Even a Small amount from the cylinder or the valve on a side link is very noticeable and a huge PITA.