Mulcher for sagebrush on rocky ground?

[scootr]

So the next question is what sized chain do I use and how do I attach it to the rotating axles? I was thinking of using a quick link to attach it, but my guess is the quick link probably won't last very long with that kind of abuse. Today I will flip over the mower and see how the blades are attached. I would assume the chain links will wear down and will need to be replaced occasionally. Also how close should I make the two rotating sets of rotating links come to each other?

I posted a thread on this project here > Brush Hog mods The first picture is what I tried to copy. You can see the guy welded the chains on. That's an option but I wanted to be able to replace the chain as needed.
The chain I used was 3/8 hardened #70 attached with grade 8 bolts using lock washers and Loctite. The chain was as long as possible meaning it come as close as possible to the deck sidewall. When mowing PTO speed is important as well as a slow ground speed for the best mulching.
I was fortunate enough to get a very old HD mower free to modify.
Disclaimer; This has been an experimental mowing project inspired by factory chain mowers and you tube videos.
Factory chain mowers or Slashers as they are called are more readily available in countries where PTO rpm is much higher than 540 which may be one reason they are not as popular here. I've enjoyed the build and the results. Your results may vary

 

[Sierraau]

I posted a thread on this project here > Brush Hog mods The first picture is what I tried to copy. You can see the guy welded the chains on. That's an option but I wanted to be able to replace the chain as needed.
The chain I used was 3/8 hardened #70 attached with grade 8 bolts using lock washers and Loctite. The chain was as long as possible meaning it come as close as possible to the deck sidewall. When mowing PTO speed is important as well as a slow ground speed for the best mulching.
I was fortunate enough to get a very old HD mower free to modify.
Disclaimer; This has been an experimental mowing project inspired by factory chain mowers and you tube videos.
Factory chain mowers or Slashers as they are called are more readily available in countries where PTO rpm is much higher than 540 which may be one reason they are not as popular here. I've enjoyed the build and the results. Your results may vary

Yeah, my mower is in pretty good condition, is there any chance I would destroy it?

 

[jyoutz]

Yeah, my mower is in pretty good condition, is there any chance I would destroy it?

Keep in mind that sagebrush and rock removal is a “one and done” project, so I wouldn’t invest too much in equipment to do this. I still think a few hours work for a small dozer with skilled operator would be the most economical option. Once the initial clearing is done, the site can be maintained with your rotary cutter. Dozer tracks create less ground disturbance than a wheeled machine and there is little ground disturbance if the blade is held above the ground and doesn’t push soil.

 

[scootr]

Yeah, my mower is in pretty good condition, is there any chance I would destroy it?

You will destroy a set of blades.
Don't let me talk you into something your not comfortable with. We all have different skill and risk taking levels. You could just hire somebody to do it for you and let them wear and tear their stuff. You may have a neighbor looking to make some fuel $.

 

[Sierraau]

Sorry to keep expanding this thread, but I happened to see a video about the tooth bars (ratchet rake vs Pirhana )for the front of the FEL and/or the rear blade. Being that sagebrush is really shallow, I would image it would be really easy to pull out and I could manage the rocks with the bucket. Has anyone had any experience using these tools in Sagebrush? I understand the FEL isn't a bulldozer but (again) the roots for the sage are really shallow (in some cases I can pull them out just using my back). The only potential downside I would see is the front rake getting the sage stuck on them and having to manually pull it off.

 

[jyoutz]

Sorry to keep expanding this thread, but I happened to see a video about the tooth bars (ratchet rake vs Pirhana )for the front of the FEL and/or the rear blade. Being that sagebrush is really shallow, I would image it would be really easy to pull out and I could manage the rocks with the bucket. Has anyone had any experience using these tools in Sagebrush? I understand the FEL isn't a bulldozer but (again) the roots for the sage are really shallow (in some cases I can pull them out just using my back). The only potential downside I would see is the front rake getting the sage stuck on them and having to manually pull it off.

I think that option would work fine for breaking and pulling sage. I do think you’ll need a helper to pull the sage off the tooth bar. And of course banging into large rocks will be a show stopper. If you go slow and don’t ram into rocks, this could be an option, albeit a slow and labor intensive one. Undoubtedly this will leave large sagebrush staubs, so you might need to follow up with your rotary cutter. At least you will be able to see and avoid the rocks after the sage is removed.

Edit: I should add that depending on the size and stiffness of the staubs, they could be hazardous to tractor tires.

 

[jyoutz]

The other good news of 10 acres of chips surrounding my house is I don't have any issues with the carpenter ants in the woods invading my house- my guess is they have plenty to choose from right where they are.

Fresh chips can entice pine bark beetles into the area. Then the beetles will kill the live pines. For the most part chips aren’t a positive thing in a forested location. They are better hauled into urban areas for biomass or urban landscaping. The reason you’re getting them free is they are a waste product in the mountains and it’s cheaper to dispose of them than to haul them to the city.

 

[rScotty]

Don’t get chips too deep. They don’t break down very fast if they’re deep. Once we had a project in a ponderosa pine forest where we thinned small trees by chipping. The chips were 10-12” thick after the thinning. After 6 years, there was nothing growing under the trees so we did a prescribed burn to reduce the fuels. The depth of the chips caused the fire to smolder, unlike how pine needles and coarse slash burn. The heat was driven deep into the soil and it cooked the roots of mature trees. A disastrous outcome because a low severity smoldering fire killed the mature stand. Once you get deep chips, it’s nearly impossible to get rid of them and you have to hope that the stand doesn’t experience any fire activity for decades.

What he said about chips. I found the same thing - at a least about pine and fir chips. Don't know about hardwood chips.

After a flood left us with areas of sand and gravel, I tried ponderosa/fir chips about 2" to 3" deep as an experiment on one acre and left the adjoining acre uncovered. Gave it 5 years and neither was growing much except a few scraggley weeds so I seeded and raked both and hand-sprinkled some garden soil over the top...maybe a quarter inch deep. Six years later now and the area with chips still hasn't grown anything at all. The uncovered acre is lush with native grasses.

Ponderosa chips are hard to get rid of locally as people are realizing that they break down into something that is not beneficial to the soil. That surprised a lot of forestry folks here who thought - or were taught - otherwise. Last year I made up a ten foot long temperature probe to check internal heat on some large chip piles in the area. I was concerned about anaerobic heating and combustion. What I found was chips & needles don't heat up as much as I would have thought. Heat inside on large piles several years old was only about 120/140 F. Enough for heat of decomposition to make them steam on a cold day, but not smolder.

I'm now wondering if adding 5% or 10% clay soil as a binder would turn the chips into decent dirt road topping.

rScotty

 

[jyoutz]

What he said about chips. I found the same thing - at a least about pine and fir chips. Don't know about hardwood chips.

After a flood left us with areas of sand and gravel, I tried ponderosa/fir chips about 2" to 3" deep as an experiment on one acre and left the adjoining acre uncovered. Gave it 5 years and neither was growing much except a few scraggley weeds so I seeded and raked both and hand-sprinkled some garden soil over the top...maybe a quarter inch deep. Six years later now and the area with chips still hasn't grown anything at all. The uncovered acre is lush with native grasses.

Ponderosa chips are hard to get rid of locally as people are realizing that they break down into something that is not beneficial to the soil. That surprised a lot of forestry folks here who thought - or were taught - otherwise. Last year I made up a ten foot long temperature probe to check internal heat on some large chip piles in the area. I was concerned about anaerobic heating and combustion. What I found was chips & needles don't heat up as much as I would have thought. Heat inside on large piles several years old was only about 120/140 F. Enough for heat of decomposition to make them steam on a cold day, but not smolder.

I'm now wondering if adding 5% or 10% clay soil as a binder would turn the chips into decent dirt road topping.

rScotty

Foresters never really thought of chips as beneficial to soil productivity. We use chipping and/or mastication to thin trees and brush in locations where slash burning is undesirable or infeasible (due to proximity to structures). This is speaking to dry interior west forests in the Rocky Mountains and dry side Sierras snd Cascades. In the more mesic eastern or Pacific coastal forests they would decompose quickly and the nitrogen starvation to soils effects would be of short duration.

 

[Sierraau]

You guy are probably think I am crazy, but I just have to ask. I am rethinking my deep chips on the property and thinking about scraping off the top 5" to leave just a couple of inches so the trees get better water. I can push the piles of chips to the edge of the area where the chips lay into pile. And then I have this idea.... crazy as it seems..... could I get my snow blower and slowly move it into the pile of 1" diameter chips and use it to broadcast the chips to other areas, maybe 20+ feet away? It would be really cool if it would work, but I am not sure if it would gum up the blower. Am I crazy?

 

[oosik]

Yes - certifiable. Kidding. That might just work great. Hey - I've used my 3-point snow blower to pump and blow water out of a meadow pond. It was kind of messy - VERY wide field of broadcast - but it sure sucked it up and blew it over the ridge. There is no reason that the blower would not blow/broadcast the chips. Sure is worth a try.

 

[CalG]

Mowing rocks?

The road crews in my area use chain flails. We have rocks, and the sumac needs cut back in late summer. (fresh growth sumac and sage might be comparable)

 

[jyoutz]

Mowing rocks?

The road crews in my area use chain flails. We have rocks, and the sumac needs cut back in late summer. (fresh growth sumac and sage might be comparable)

Sumac is tough and fibrous. Sage is brittle, so anything that will mow sumac will certainly mow sage.

 

[oosik]

After four years most all the sage stumps are dead. I found that I can pull the stump and root system with the grapple. I burn the stumps/roots because they will have dirt and stones that dull the chipper blades.

I wait until all the wildflowers have seed heads and then mow the entire area with my riding mower.

 

[Sierraau]

Mowing rocks?

The road crews in my area use chain flails. We have rocks, and the sumac needs cut back in late summer. (fresh growth sumac and sage might be comparable)

Who makes a chain flail mower for a 70 hp tractor in the US?

 

[CalG]

Who makes a chain flail mower for a 70 hp tractor in the US?

no idea, and I'm sure the crews won't have them out until after the snow melts. ;-)

 

[jyoutz]

no idea, and I'm sure the crews won't have them out until after the snow melts. ;-)

Most of those highway department tractors are heavy utility machines with greater than 100hp.

 

[oosik]

jyoutz - around here the city and county use some pretty HD equipment to keep the grass mowed back from their new concrete sidewalks. I know they could do this with smaller/lighter equipment. And it would be a whole lot easier for the operator

However - I do appreciate that they are making max use with the equipment they already have.

Their tractors are in the 120 to 150 hp range and they have those hydraulically extended rotary cutters.

 

[jyoutz]

jyoutz - around here the city and county use some pretty HD equipment to keep the grass mowed back from their new concrete sidewalks. I know they could do this with smaller/lighter equipment. And it would be a whole lot easier for the operator

However - I do appreciate that they are making max use with the equipment they already have.

Their tractors are in the 120 to 150 hp range and they have those hydraulically extended rotary cutters.

I see similar equipment used by the county and state roads departments.