Most domestic content question

[Farmwithjunk]

If Sigmund Freud were a member of TBN, he might say, "Sometimes a question is just a question.", while others insist on on searching for deeper meaning, even after the OP has stated his intent. Oh well, I guess others are better able to do this.

There are people in this world that you can't ask the simple question "what time is it" without hearing a detailed explaination of how to build a clock.

 

[MikePA]

There are people in this world that you can't ask the simple question "what time is it" without hearing a detailed explaination of how to build a clock.

Or they ask, "Why do you want to know what time it is?"

 

[patrick_g]

There are people in this world that you can't ask the simple question "what time is it" without hearing a detailed explaination of how to build a clock.

Yeahl That plus I like to also add in the history of horology and the British quest for a sufficiently accurate chronometer to support accurate longitude determination for maritime navigation.

At least I don't try to parse the meaning of "is."

Pat

 

[Builder]

Or they ask, "Why do you want to know what time it is?"

Or maybe, as in the case with my thread, they can try to make you out to be someone your not.

 

[N80]

There are people in this world that you can't ask the simple question "what time is it" without hearing a detailed explaination of how to build a clock.

And yet, given the esteem some have for the simplicity of the original question here we are at 60 some odd posts with no answer and the bulk of the conversation bemoaning the fact that someone had the audacity to ask 'why'.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

And yet, given the esteem some have for the simplicity of the original question here we are at 60 some odd posts with no answer and the bulk of the conversation bemoaning the fact that someone had the audacity to ask 'why'.

Why indeed

Sometimes the most profound thoughts come from the least likely sources. Right now I'm recalling that "classic" Robbie Benson movie "WAR GAMES". The computer finally deducted that "The only way to win the game was not to play". I now know what that means.

 

[N80]

The computer finally deducted that "The only way to win the game was not to play".

Are you sure Yogi Berra didn't say that?

 

[TheDingy]

I agree. Labor costs, environmental regs, OSHA, Legacy costs, Health Care, etc.... It all adds up to companies moving overseas.

A much larger cost THE UNIONS!!!!!

I admit, we just purchased a Mahindra tractor I buy American in every instance that I can, but the cost was too much of a difference for this purchase and the "US" brands are still mostly produced outside of the United States.

One thing that you have to look at other than "domestic content" is where did the engineering for the part take place, where do the profits go, and does the "owning" country buy from the US in the rates that we buy from them? Think about this, which job is better for the US economy a low paid assembly worker, or a high paid engineer? If the assembly worker is based in the US it is labeled domestic content, but if all engineering happens in the US and the part is built in a border town in Mexico to get away from the union's it is labeled foreign content.

 

[N80]

Not only has the original question been answered, it's been answered multiple times, the first in Post 13. The answer is No, there is no such source of information. Additionally, the OP has also answered the 'Why' question way back in Post 8 and again in Post 10.

I guess some people either don't believe his answer, didn't read it (it was a long time ago) or think he has some ulterior motive.

Gosh, Mike, I thought the "NO" answer had been rejected outright despite you being cited as the indisputable source for that answer. If the answer is really no, and the 'whys and wherefores' have been exposed then what the heck is all the chatter about?

And as for suspicions of ulterior motives, go back and read the thread. Virtually everyone has assumed some other motive or else why all the talk about unions, labor costs, global economies, imported steel etc etc etc etc......?

I think deep down we're really having more fun fussing than answering questions of any type. Why else would we be at 60+ posts when, as you say, the question has been put to rest?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Yes, It is entirely possible the data has been assembled in some form, by someone.

No, No one has been able to produce proof of existance.

Yes, Any such data would be obsolete in a matter of minutes due to the fluid nature of the supply chain.

No, Any such information wouldn't be of much use in determining the quality of the final product.

Yes, This thread has steadily gone the way of so many, becoming a head butting contest.

No, It probably won't end any time soon.

So let me re-cap; Yes, No, Yes, No, Yes, No.

 

[N80]

Yes, It is entirely possible the data has been assembled in some form, by someone.

No, No one has been able to produce proof of existance.

Sounds like its Area 51, bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster!

 

[patrick_g]

Why indeed

Sometimes the most profound thoughts come from the least likely sources. Right now I'm recalling that "classic" Robbie Benson movie "WAR GAMES". The computer finally deducted that "The only way to win the game was not to play". I now know what that means.

Maybe you should recall a little harder until you recall the movie this way...

WarGames (1983)
Directed by John Badham. With Matthew Broderick, Dabney Coleman, John Wood. A young man finds a back door into a military central computer using the venerable IMSAI 8080 computer) in which reality ...

Pat

 

[N80]

Matthew Broderick, Robbie Benson....what's the difference? Seriously.

But, when it comes to movies from the 80's that assign ridiculous, mythical powers to computers I'll take 'Weird Science' any day. I mean, really, you're a 17 year old boy and you are a computer whiz, what are you going to do, hack into a DoD computer and destroy the plantet....or create your own personal Kelly LeBroc?

 

[hunterridgefarm]

Yes, It is entirely possible the data has been assembled in some form, by someone.

Actually...this data does exist. The accuracy may be somewhat questionable but it will be real close to actual domestic content.

In my business we make parts for everything from satellites, to passenger trains, armored security carriers for the military to parts for wood stoves.

Because of NAFTA the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and Bureau of Customs and Border Protection requires a Certificate of Origin for all parts supplied to the OEM, Government, or sub contractors. For metal we must assign a HS Tariff Classisication Number to that product, we must put the Country of Origin. What percentage is domestic.

An example would be; I currently buy a certain grade of aluminum from Germany. When I fill out my Certificate of Origin for this finale assembly that we build I must show the percentage of it that contains the German material.
So it could be 60% domestic and 40% foreign.

IF you buy a fuel pump from Mexico or Spain, sold it to the OEM or a Sub contractor or used it as part of an assembly and then sold it. It would have to have a HS Tariff Classification Number.

Some companies require a certain percentage of domestic product in their contracts. Some require a percentage of be foreign.

There is a multiplier that companies use to adjust for discrepancies in tariff classifcation numbers. But the final tally should be close.

Same with tractors, if you are a supplier,(which we are) or importer you are required to supply this information.

So, yes this information is available, the OEM will have it. Now getting them to publish this to any one other than the government agency that requires it is a different story.

Please don't beat me up to bad for this info but if I get some free time today I'll pull out some more regs and go over it and share.

David

 

[MikePA]

When I said it was not available, I assumed everyone would know the manufacturers have this information.

Ah yes, Kelly LeBrock , used to be married to Steven Seagal.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Matthew Broderick, Robbie Benson....what's the difference? Seriously

You just took the words right outta my mouth.....

 

[patrick_g]

Originally Posted by N80
Matthew Broderick, Robbie Benson....what's the difference? Seriously

You just took the words right outta my mouth.....

As in many other areas of cerebral related processing as evidenced in tasting, discerning color, shades of gray, and other sensory acuity related tests, there is a wide dynamic range in performance ability. What is an obvious difference to those with ability to discern it is invisible to many others.

There are genetically related abilities in taste, smell, and many other sensory and processing related "brain work" that leave some folks with no clue as to the differences being easily noted by others.

No amount of training or practice will enable someone who is predisposed to not be able to perceive differences in presented sensor stimulation to be able to experience what is easily done so by many others. Both populations of individuals, those with and those without the ability to discern the differences, are normal within the context of the general population.

An example: I used to be able to hear bats very clearly, also "ultrasonic alarms" and such (prior to too much exposure to loud sounds) but there is just no good way to explain what something like that sounds like to someone who can't hear it. Similarly, anyone trying to explain the easily (to some) discerned differences between the two actors will not succeed. Either someone can recognize the distinct differences or they can't. Wines are another area like this. Some folks can taste the differences and some can't in similar vintages and might as well be served the $5 stuff instead of the $25 stuff or the $250 stuff because it will all taste the same to them.


Pat

 

[N80]

David, what are these percentages based on? Weight? Volume? Number of individual parts? See what I'm getting at? If you say tractor 'A' has 25% domestic (USA) content, does that mean that this tractor, which weighs 4000 pounds (for instance) has 1000 pounds of US material in it? Or does it mean that 25% of its parts were made here?

And, lets say the starter is made in Mexico, does the OEM know where the parts of the starter are from? How? That would rely on Mexican regulator honesty and efficiency wouldn't it?

Not arguing, seriously, just curious.

But lets say we do know for absolute fact that 50% of one tractor is US domestic (whether it is weight, parts or whatever) and another tractor is 70% US domestic. How could anyone use this info for any practical purpose unless they expanded this info to include which parts and how they were made and or assembled?

Patrick: What?

Really, the powers and thresholds of discernment are going to be tempered by whether or not the 'discernee' gives a rip or not. (all in fun, man).

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Originally Posted by N80
Matthew Broderick, Robbie Benson....what's the difference? Seriously

As in many other areas of cerebral related processing as evidenced in tasting, discerning color, shades of gray, and other sensory acuity related tests, there is a wide dynamic range in performance ability. What is an obvious difference to those with ability to discern it is invisible to many others.

There are genetically related abilities in taste, smell, and many other sensory and processing related "brain work" that leave some folks with no clue as to the differences being easily noted by others.

No amount of training or practice will enable someone who is predisposed to not be able to perceive differences in presented sensor stimulation to be able to experience what is easily done so by many others. Both populations of individuals, those with and those without the ability to discern the differences, are normal within the context of the general population.

An example: I used to be able to hear bats very clearly, also "ultrasonic alarms" and such (prior to too much exposure to loud sounds) but there is just no good way to explain what something like that sounds like to someone who can't hear it. Similarly, anyone trying to explain the easily (to some) discerned differences between the two actors will not succeed. Either someone can recognize the distinct differences or they can't. Wines are another area like this. Some folks can taste the differences and some can't in similar vintages and might as well be served the $5 stuff instead of the $25 stuff or the $250 stuff because it will all taste the same to them.


Pat

And often people simply over anylize what they perceive as "the facts" when things are far less complicated than they want to think.

My reference to that movie was in jest. (I view that movie's place in history as significant as I view certain portions of this thread, by the way.) The fact that I don't consider it as a "classic film", nor did I see any of the actors as performing in a "role of a lifetime", I simply drew upon a name I pulled out of thin air. Robbie Benson was in the "prime" of his illustrious carreer about that time in space. War Games was a movie very simular to most of what Robbie Benson would have been involved in. There was/is no "inability to discern" involved.

Plain and simple, I just didn't remember WHO was in that movie because it wasn't all that important. I just remember my son and daughter watching it over and over and over and................

And the most significant lines in that movie were at the end. For me, the significance was the fact that it was FINALLY ending.

 

[Builder]

Gosh, Mike, I thought the "NO" answer had been rejected outright despite you being cited as the indisputable source for that answer. If the answer is really no, and the 'whys and wherefores' have been exposed then what the heck is all the chatter about?

And as for suspicions of ulterior motives, go back and read the thread. Virtually everyone has assumed some other motive or else why all the talk about unions, labor costs, global economies, imported steel etc etc etc etc......?

I think deep down we're really having more fun fussing than answering questions of any type. Why else would we be at 60+ posts when, as you say, the question has been put to rest?

Maybe it's because a few of the members who replied to this thread have feelings of paranoia or guilt for buying foreign?

Or maybe some just can't resist stirring up crap and ruining a thread based on a simple question?

One thing for sure. It makes this particular member a lot more hesitant to post a simple friendly question on a great website for fear of being attacked again.

Thanks.