Most domestic content question

[Builder]

THE ANSWER IS NO. No one knows.

You have your answer. If you don't like the turn the thread has taken, feel free to ignore it.

OK GEORGE, How do you know the answer is "NO"? Can you prove no such data exists?


Do you think so highly of yourself that you speak for the other 40,000 members on this website? I happen to think these facts might be published somewhere and it's my perogative to find out the answer.

I asked a simple question, like a gentleman I might add.
You don't know the answer.
I have been offered some answers that are useful by helpful members. Yours have been nothing but confrontational and uninformative and useless because you don't even know if the answer exists.

Maybe if you'd go away, we can get back to my original question.

 

[Builder]

Look at all the previous posts... THAT is why it's "loaded." There have been so many posts similar to this and all of them end up the same way.... nobody really knows and everybody argues! And Builder... I love ya' man... but you are always in the middle of these posts... so I know you know that it is "loaded."

Mine will not "end up the same way". How much more do you need to know? If you want to call me a liar, knock yourself out, but there's nothing sisnister behind the question.

 

[DmansPadge]

Mine will not "end up the same way". How much more do you need to know? If you want to call me a liar, knock yourself out, but there's nothing sisnister behind the question.

I don't need to know any more..... I'm not calling you a liar and I don't think you mean anything sinister. But what I do know is that when this subject is brought up it stirs up the old proverbial hornets nest.... and that in my opinion makes it loaded.... and I think you know that too. That being said... you have every right in the world to ask the question and you don't need to provide any explanation.

 

[Builder]

I don't need to know any more..... I'm not calling you a liar and I don't think you mean anything sinister. But what I do know is that when this subject is brought up it stirs up the old proverbial hornets nest.... and that in my opinion makes it loaded.... and I think you know that too. That being said... you have every right in the world to ask the question and you don't need to provide any explanation.

Thanks. I actually didn't know that. Seems like, with the exception of one or two members bent on confrontation, the rest have been happy to offer help in the typical helpful, TBN way.
Why is it such a hornets nest? My opinion is that a quality tractor could be made anywhere.

If I had asked "what 80 HP 4x4 utility tractor has the most Italian content", would that stir up a perverbial "hornets nest" as well? I wouldn't think so.

 

[N80]

OK GEORGE, How do you know the answer is "NO"? Can you prove no such data exists?

Because MikeinPA (Super Member) said so twice. And he is the ONLY one to actually answer your question. What more do you want?

Do you think so highly of yourself that you speak for the other 40,000 members on this website?

I think plenty highly of myself, but do not presume to speak for 40,000 members. And I have not done so. You asked a question. What you got was lot of noise and one firm answer. No.

I happen to think these facts might be published somewhere and it's my perogative to find out the answer.

It appears, so far, that you are wrong about that. And so far there have been 40 some odd posts in this thread from maybe 10-15 different members. At that rate (doing a little top-of-the head math) you could possibly get 160,000 replies before the 40,000th member finally got you what you were looking for..........all because you wouldn't refine your question a little and got belligerent when some folks suggest that it might HELP YOU get your answer. Don't you get that?

I suspect you do get it, but from what I'm hearing from other folks, being in the middle of 160,000 irrelevant posts seems to be right up your ally. This is my first time I've encountered you here at TBn so I wouldn't know.

I asked a simple question, like a gentleman I might add.

A question can be 'simple' and ineffective. Yours is the perfect example.

You don't know the answer.

Now how on earth do you know that? I might be the 40,000th member that does actually have the answer you are looking for and all you've done is ticked me off. Seriously though. I do know the answer. Mike got it right. Its no. It may not be what you were looking for, but its what you got.

I have been offered some answers that are useful by helpful members.

Show them to me. Quote them. Which ones? The only helpful answer that you got was from Mike. No. All the others were speculative and most of them do not follow your criteria for an answer to your 'simple' question.

Yours have been nothing but confrontational and uninformative and useless because you don't even know if the answer exists.

Again, show me. My first post was #26. Go back, read it again. There is nothing confrontational about it. Things did not get confrontational here until you attacked me over a response that was intended to help you. How's that for irony? Want more? I was right. The only reason my response to you was useless was that you were too defensive to take my advice.

Maybe if you'd go away, we can get back to my original question.

Not gonna happen. Since you have rejected Mike's answer, and you're so all fired smart, I'm going to hang around and see how many posts it takes for you to realize he was right!

 

[N80]

That being said... you have every right in the world to ask the question and you don't need to provide any explanation.

I agree totally. And you know what, no one, not one single person, has questioned that right. And while no explanation is required, the 'need' part is in the eyes of the beholder. If you want dozens of tangential, irrelevant responses there is no need to explain. If you want precise simple answers, an explanation is almost always required and most people give one as a matter of course because most people understand that keeping a question in perspective is useful.

 

[Builder]

N80,

I think you have succeeded in destroying my thread topic. I'd be pretty naive to believe that your answer of NO would carry any weight, but even if it did, your constant bickering, taking the thread off topic and acting like a child has really turned this into a wasted thread.
I will look for the answer elsewhere and post again later if I find anything.

To the other members who offered help & answers, Thank You!

 

[TrippleT]

MikePA, is probably right, because to be sure, each system and component would require the maker, and origin. In other words the electrical systems, hydraulic systems, on and on ad infinitum, would have to be ascertained.
It might well be that the government might have some knowledge or records on it, but I doubt that. HA
I think some have pointed out what I intimated in my other post. I see no reason to get to out of joint here. Is there a full moon out somewhere?
Dodging rotten eggs, veggies, etc.

 

[N80]

N80,

I think you have succeeded in destroying my thread topic.

Oh, you're just being modest. I couldn't have done it without your help!

I'd be pretty naive to believe that your answer of NO would carry any weight

Don't believe me. Believe Mike!

but even if it did, your constant bickering, taking the thread off topic and acting like a child has really turned this into a wasted thread.

It takes two to bicker, big fella.

I will look for the answer elsewhere and post again later if I find anything.

Can't wait to hear from you! Will you PM me please?

To the other members who offered help & answers, Thank You!

And then I realize I'm arguing with someone on the internet that I don't know, about a question that he doesn't know how to ask and no one knows how to answer....and it is FRIDAY NIGHT!

Sigh. I'm going to see if I can find where my wife hid the booze this time. I suggest you guys pursue a similar course. Good night.

 

[Builder]

MikePA, is probably right, because to be sure, each system and component would require the maker, and origin. In other words the electrical systems, hydraulic systems, on and on ad infinitum, would have to be ascertained.
It might well be that the government might have some knowledge or records on it, but I doubt that. HA
I think some have pointed out what I intimated in my other post. I see no reason to get to out of joint here. Is there a full moon out somewhere?
Dodging rotten eggs, veggies, etc.

He very well might be, but I've seen it done with cars & trucks. I thought it could be done with tractors as well.

Ford & other manufacturers I've noticed have posted domestic content in the window stickers of their vehicles for years.

Why would it be so outrageous to suugest if a 80 HP 4x4 utility would do the same? After all, they could cost as much or more than a car or truck.

 

[AndyMA]

Ford & other manufacturers I've noticed have posted domestic content in the window stickers of their vehicles for years.

Why would it be so outrageous to suugest if a 80 HP 4x4 utility would do the same? After all, they could cost as much or more than a car or truck.

Those window stickers you speak of in many cases don't say much. I just looked at Subaru's and for the Outback it said engine and transmission from Japan and car assembled in IA, USA.

How do you determine %. By weight, by volume, by wholesale dollar value, by manufacturing cost? I don't know. I would also suspect that manufacturers have multiple sources for parts are they don't always even come from the same countries. Like I said earlier, even for some of the products I have designed and brought into production I could not tell you the domestic content.

Andy

 

[billbill1]

When we do get the answer to this question, would you please find out what kind of oil is recommended to use? That would also be helpful.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The data MIGHT exist. In todays information rich world, I'm sure SOMEONE SOMEWHERE at one of the various manufacturers has put together the data. The level of competition between manufacturers these days is nothing short of cut throat. They monitor each others every move. I doubt much goes on at Deere that Kubota doesn't know long before the public is aware, and so on. But, I doubt any of them want the world (read; US MARKET) to know. Even in the case of "the winner", the percentages would probably be so insignificantly low it would be as much "bad press" as good.

So in the sense that the info is unavailable to the general public, no, it doesn't exist most likely. There's no more proof that the info DOESN'T exist than there is proof it DOES exist.

Is there really a Santa Claus?

 

[Builder]

The data MIGHT exist. In todays information rich world, I'm sure SOMEONE SOMEWHERE at one of the various manufacturers has put together the data...................

That's all I'm looking for, plain & simple.

 

[timnjaneb]

Hello, I read most of this thread early this morning and since then just returned home with a new calendar from the local John Deere Dealer.
The theme of the calendar seemed so fitting for a post here. Each month has a different tractor or implement along with the country and city of origin, while the inside of the front cover lists all of the various manufacturing plants ALL OVER THE WORLD. Pick one up when you get a chance and take a look.

As a side note I can tell you that the highly qualified and dedicated service technicians at this dealership could care less where the item came from. All they have to do is keep it operating to Deere standards.
Tim

 

[patrick_g]

Ahh, now that the flames have died down to embers I can get close enough to finish putting the fire out... WITH GASOLINE!!!

Even if someone somewhere has the data, it is at best a snapshot of a dynamically changing dataset and any compilation would be obsolete before it was compiled.

Another thought is that the information may be closely held and NOT FOR PUBLIC DISCLOSURE.

So unfortunately, however interesting it might be to know it is likely unknowable.

Somewhere in a tractor there is probably a 1/4 20 nut or its metric equivalent. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of possible suppliers of that part to any given manufacture that meets or exceed the engineering specs for its use. When the bin gets low in the plant it is refilled from the stock room and the stockroom gets it parts from whoever was low bid on a bunch of hardware. It is darned unlikely that at any given moment anyone anywhere has a clue which parts from which suppliers went into which tractors.

Although I gave a simple example, the same tower of Babel situation exists for lots of the parts. When the engine manufacturer assembles the diesel engine do you think he knows which vendor's wrist pins went into which vendors con rods or whose rings went on whose pistons? Not bloody likely.

So, again, I think it is unlikely that anyone knows the actual content origin of any specific serial number of any given model of some brand of tractor and it is likely it varies considerably over time and not just when models change but whenever the bin is filled with parts. This goes for castings and weldments as well as bolts and nuts.

If the intent of the original question (still unstated) was to support making some sort of reasoned decision based on origin of content, I think it CAN'T be done because it can't be known.

I will be pleased to buy anyone a rootbeer float if they can show me to be mostly wrong in my surmise.

Pat

 

[MikePA]

If the intent of the original question (still unstated)...

Builder, I did all I could.

 

[Builder]

Builder, I did all I could.

I know, man. I really appreciate you trying to keep the topic out of the mud, but what are you gonna do? No matter where you go, you're going to run into confrontational Kubota owners from SC with a chip on their shoulder.

Once again for posterity, if auto manufacturers can do it, there's no reason tractor manufacturers can't do it, too.

No, not talking about every nut & bolt. I'd be happy with even the major components. Engine, trans, rears, sheetmetal, assembly, etc.

 

[patrick_g]

Builder, I did all I could.

Not to worry, dude. Death is nature's way of telling you to slow down so until the message gets delivered just keep on keeping on.

Pat

 

[MikePA]

Not to worry, dude. Death is nature's way of telling you to slow down so until the message gets delivered just keep on keeping on.

If Sigmund Freud were a member of TBN, he might say, "Sometimes a question is just a question.", while others insist on on searching for deeper meaning, even after the OP has stated his intent. Oh well, I guess others are better able to do this.