Most domestic content question

[canoetrpr]

I have to agree with everything Patrick has said so far.

My Kubota L3400 LA463 FEL is built in Georgia. The rest of it is made in Japan and I have no clue where the steel for those components is sourced from.

I recently drove a JD3520. The loader had a Made In China stamped on it and I know that the engine was a Yanmar made in Japan.

So far my Kubota might be coming out higher in domestic content between the two on engine and loader alone.

I know that the bota frame axle's were made in Japan but again don't know where the steel came from. Anyone know where the axle and the frame were made for the JD 3x20 machines?

I have to admit that I was turned off by the Made in China on the JD loader but I do recognise that as bias rather than a legitimate concern about quality. After all JD didn't get to where they are by sourcing junk!

The JD 4x20 machine engine is made in Mexico I believe. Next time I go to a JD dealer I will take a look to see where the loader and frame/axle is made. Would not suprise me if it came out relatively higher in domestic content compared to its competition.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

I also have to agree with Patrick's comments especially about China. I've been to China a number of times and have visited/toured numerous companies. Have found companies that range from builders of junk to world class. The problem we have as comsumers is trying to find out is, what kind of company the item we're about to buy or just looking at came from. Doesn't help when what we're looking at is one of those items where numerous companies are building product from the same design and all we can usually see are the labels and color or paint.

 

[TrippleT]

I would say that most of them are built to the specs of the company. That is to say, that if it is John Deere, New Holland, it will be built to their specifications. And, will be supported for a certain period of time with parts and etc.
What is a shame, is that the country that put men on the moon seeks outside the US to get a product made that can be sold here.
Figure that. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to reach a conclusion there.

 

[patrick_g]

A few years back (5-6) when my tractor (Kubota) was new, I was given to believe that it was built entirely in Japan. I would have been happy to buy a comparable US built tractor but I couldn't find one. I don't think any of the compacts are US made.

I bought my Dodge thinking it was built in the USA like my Ford (Kansas) and found a few months later it was Hecho en Mexico (can you say naieve?) Hey, my excuse is that I don't shop and buy a lot of vehicles. My previous truck was an '84 Ford and prior to that a '64 Ford.

Customer satisfaction hinges on several attributes, not just price. If there were US built tractors in the range of interest to me that could at least compete a little with foreign tractors in overall customer satisfaction I would have paid more to get one but there were no options along those lines.

When not driving one of our three pickups I drive our Prius which is PURE BRED Japanese. It has no equal and no serious competition in its niche. Consumers Reports shows it to have been voted #1 for 4 years straight in customer satisfaction including price, performance, utility, economy, and on and on with some high dollar luxury BMW behind it in the #2 slot.

If there were an American car that even was serious competition and didn't cost toooo much more I would be driving that instead. I really prefer buying American but will not accept massively higher prices for goods of lesser quality that are not competitive.

If any of the above is no longer true, please straighten me out, the entire marketplace is dynamically changing and I don't track it all that closely.

Pat

 

[RobJ]

I would say that most of them are built to the specs of the company.

I would agree.

I would say they are 100%...us steel. But probably cast somewhere else. China does not have the steel to maintain their growth.

Years ago I'd say the bigger tractors are more US made, probably not anymore.

 

[N80]

I disagree with those who are encouraging us to 'just answer the question.' Even if there is a concrete source for that info, which apparently there is not, there is still no reason why we can't ask 'why are you asking?' The question itself is a loaded one, some clarification would benefit the asker.

The reason for the question can shape the nature of a valid response. Not having the reason for the question leads to off topic comments that may or may not be helpful/appropriate.

If the OP cannot or will not or doesn't want to tell us why he wants to know, then he may get less useful info and more useless info.

Wanting to know purely where the raw materials come from is different from wondering who makes the money which is different from wondering who is the most patriotic. Knowing what he actually wants to know will be to his benefit.

 

[RobJ]

I disagree with those who are encouraging us to 'just answer the question.' Even if there is a concrete source for that info, which apparently there is not, there is still no reason why we can't ask 'why are you asking?' The question itself is a loaded one, some clarification would benefit the asker.

The reason for the question can shape the nature of a valid response. Not having the reason for the question leads to off topic comments that may or may not be helpful/appropriate.

If the OP cannot or will not or doesn't want to tell us why he wants to know, then he may get less useful info and more useless info.

Wanting to know purely where the raw materials come from is different from wondering who makes the money which is different from wondering who is the most patriotic. Knowing what he actually wants to know will be to his benefit.

But there are a whole bunch of "just because" questions asked here everyday. speculations, etc. Reminds me of this thing I read when I was a kid, "Sometimes I sit and think, sometimes I just sit".

 

[patrick_g]

Clearly we have been asked how high is up and how long is a roll of string and now we are off to the races once again like the 3 blind men and the elephant with each of us touching a different part of the beast. The OP asked an OPEN ENDED question to which closure will not be found in this forum until and unless the question is refined.

Meanwhile we will exercise free speech on related topics thought to be sufficiently similar until the next target of interest comes along to distract us.

Note the OP's clarification:

"I want to know where, because I always gauge initial qaulity by where something was made (among other factors)."

I think given this quote that an alert observer has sufficient information to put all the rest of the discussion into perspective.

Pat

 

[N80]

Reminds me of this thing I read when I was a kid, "Sometimes I sit and think, sometimes I just sit".

My wife once asked me what I think about while I'm hunting and sitting in the woods all those hours. I told her I didn't think about anything, which constituted the primary appeal of the hours of hunting in the first place!

 

[N80]

Clearly we have been asked how high is up and how long is a roll of string and now we are off to the races once again like the 3 blind men and the elephant with each of us touching a different part of the beast. The OP asked an OPEN ENDED question to which closure will not be found in this forum until and unless the question is refined.

Meanwhile we will exercise free speech on related topics thought to be sufficiently similar until the next target of interest comes along to distract us.

Note the OP's clarification:

"I want to know where, because I always gauge initial qaulity by where something was made (among other factors)."

I think given this quote that an alert observer has sufficient information to put all the rest of the discussion into perspective.

Pat

Amen.

 

[mboulais]

I used to be concerned about American made, at least on big items but what is really patriotic about buying something made in Japan just because the factory is owned by a company with headquarters in the U.S.? I stand behind my earlier statement. Buy what fits your needs /budget. At what point does budget override idealistic concerns about country of origin? Twice the cost? Three times the cost? Judging quality by looking at place of manufacture today without looking at the product is ignorant. I am not trying to be harsh to anyone else that has posted. I just don't want to make a point that those companies with headquarters are taking advantage of this idealist and imho misplaced sense of patriotism instead of providing good value for the money to win customers. The fact that some mfgrs allow people to continue to labor under the misconception that they build their product here in the U.S. isn't exaclty ethical either. I don't believe in brand loyalty either anymore. I do believe in brand disloyalty though. Give everyone (and every brand) a fair shake until you find a reason not to.

 

[AndyMA]

What is a shame, is that the country that put men on the moon seeks outside the US to get a product made that can be sold here.
Figure that. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to reach a conclusion there.

I wouldn't say that we can't build a product in the US to be sold here. One of the major factors is the outrageous costs of our union labor and the costs of doing business in the US.

Andy

 

[AndyMA]

Also remember that some of the newest most up to date steel mills are in China, built and staffed with engineers from Morgan Construction in Worcester Mass. I would put the quality of there steel output up against any in the world.

Andy

 

[mboulais]

I wouldn't say that we can't build a product in the US to be sold here. One of the major factors is the outrageous costs of our union labor and the costs of doing business in the US.

Andy

I agree. Labor costs, environmental regs, OSHA, Legacy costs, Health Care, etc.... It all adds up to companies moving overseas.

 

[MikePA]

Note the OP's clarification:

"I want to know where, because I always gauge initial qaulity by where something was made (among other factors)."

This clarification is not from the OP, it's a comment by tydp.

Here are all the posts by Builder, the OP, bolding is mine.

Anyone have any factual data on what 4x4 utility tractor around 70-80HP has the most domestic content?

For the moment, I'd like to forget about assembly and concentrate on actual domestic component content. Are there any sources that track such data?

Marcel, Thank you for your contribution. This thread is not to start a debate about what is made where and why it suits someone better. It is a thread asking what tractor brands have the most domestic content. There's no insidious reason, just pure fact finding.

That's funny! Yes I know it conjurs up everything from friendly debates to physical threats. I'm just looking for information, there's no guy behind a curtain ready to pull a lever or anything. I just want to know if any of our membership can show what brand(s) contain the highest percentages of domestic content.

The good, as well as correct, answer to the OPs question is no, there are no such sources of information. What could be more useful than answering a simple question with a simple answer instead of another question?

Q: Does 2 + 2 = 5?

Some people respond "No" while others ask, "Why do you want to know?"

 

[Builder]

Mike,

A lot of times I disagree with you, but this time, I agree with you and appreciate you keeping this topic on track. As you said, there's no other reason to ask than "just because I want to know". Thanks.

"I disagree with those who are encouraging us to 'just answer the question.' Even if there is a concrete source for that info, which apparently there is not, there is still no reason why we can't ask 'why are you asking?' The question itself is a loaded one, some clarification would benefit the asker.

The reason for the question can shape the nature of a valid response. Not having the reason for the question leads to off topic comments that may or may not be helpful/appropriate.

If the OP cannot or will not or doesn't want to tell us why he wants to know, then he may get less useful info and more useless info.

Wanting to know purely where the raw materials come from is different from wondering who makes the money which is different from wondering who is the most patriotic. Knowing what he actually wants to know will be to his benefit."

N80,

That's ridiculous, no it will not. The question is not "loaded". Like I said earlier, there's nothing sinister behind the scenes or forthcoming after an answer to the question. There's no "buy American" sentiment or anti-American sentiment, either.

Also, why do I have to explain "WHY I want to know"? I'll do whatever I please within the rules of this fine website, not what you want me to do.
If you don't know, then I'd prefer you just butt-out unless you have something helpful or useful to add.

Sorry to get off topic, but I felt it necessary to correct some members incorrect suspicions of my question.
I simply want to know if any of our members might have factual data that can explain who's brand contains the most domestic content in a 80HP 4x4 utility tractor. It's just that simple.

 

[N80]

M
N80,

That's ridiculous, no it will not. The question is not "loaded".

The question IS loaded. I didn't say you loaded it, but the fact is, its a hot topic. It doesn't matter if you didn't intend it to be loaded, it just is.

My name is George, by the way.

Like I said earlier, there's nothing sinister behind the scenes or forthcoming after an answer to the question. There's no "buy American" sentiment or anti-American sentiment, either.

And I did not suggest that there was. Did I?

Also, why do I have to explain "WHY I want to know"?

I already explained that in simple English in my post(s) above. Try reading them without being so defensive.

I'll do whatever I please within the rules of this fine website, not what you want me to do.

You are more than welcome to do so. The fact is, I don't want you to do anything and couldn't care less what you do or say.

If you don't know, then I'd prefer you just butt-out unless you have something helpful or useful to add.

Don't get your underoos in a wad man. I DID have something useful and helpful to say and I said it. And what I said was that if YOU would give more information about why you wanted to know, you'd get better answers. And if you'd listened to that advice you wouldn't be fussing with me or sorting through all the other opinions, editorials, conspiracy theories, philosophies and politics that your non-specific question generated. The proof is in the pudding. If your question wasn't loaded and wasn't too open ended, then explain the results you got.

So sure, do what you want. And reap what you sew.

The sad thing is, I wasn't trying to beat you up, I was trying to help you out. And if you truly want everyone to butt-out who doesn't have your answer (and no one here does), then just pretend no one has replied.

Sorry to get off topic, but I felt it necessary to correct some members incorrect suspicions of my question

Sigh. I told you, ask a better question. Get a better answer. The responses you got are your fault.

I simply want to know if any of our members might have factual data that can explain who's brand contains the most domestic content in a 80HP 4x4 utility tractor. It's just that simple.

Well gee whiz, do you really think its "just that simple" now? Wait a minute, yes it is:

THE ANSWER IS NO. No one knows.

You have your answer. If you don't like the turn the thread has taken, feel free to ignore it.

 

[CDsdad]

My Massey Ferguson is made in the USA. I MADE the deal to buy it. I MADE a deal with the bank to finance it. I MADE the note last year and it'll be MADE again this year. Good thing I asked my wife first, or I'd of MADE her MAD.

 

[frank_f15]

i think that domestic content might chage from year to year, not sure that it is a question that can be answered thruthfully

 

[DmansPadge]

N80,

That's ridiculous, no it will not. The question is not "loaded".

Look at all the previous posts... THAT is why it's "loaded." There have been so many posts similar to this and all of them end up the same way.... nobody really knows and everybody argues! And Builder... I love ya' man... but you are always in the middle of these posts... so I know you know that it is "loaded."