Mohammed Censors

TonyC · Oct 19, 2001

Re: Muhammad Censors

I guess that I too would like to chime in and compliment Muhammad for his high standards in maintaining this forum. Compared it so many others, it is such a pleasure to share with the folks on this board. The individual in question answered one of my posts rather rudely causing me to suggest he find another forum. I ignored his subsequent trolls. The main point is that I knew Muhammad would be watching and take action if necessary. There are few other forums where I would feel that way. I was not aware of the other incidents but as I suspected, Muhammad took the appropriate measures.

glennmac · Oct 19, 2001

This is the only site I frequent regularly, and one of the reasons I do so is the courtesy, civility, expertise, humor, and excellent web management--all as mentioned by others. So, ditto!

However, I would like to offer another perspective on censorship and so-called trolling.

I would argue that all of the wonderful attributes of TBN have little or nothing to do with Muhammad's ownership of a delete key. I respectfully suggest that some of you are mixing causes and effects. Courtesy and civil dialogue are not caused by fear of censorship, but rather by the example set by the respected contributors who have preceded and accompany us here. We conform to the high standards set by the dialogue set by others. In addition, we are deterred from discourtesy and incivility by the very courteous and civil (ie, non-flamimg) rebuttals we will receive when we sometimes go over the line--as we all do from time to time. Bad speech and ideas are extirpated not by censorhip and book burning, but by the persuasive force of good speech and ideas that oppose and expose them.

As to trolling, I think we have to be careful not to silence what actually might be satire or subtle criticsm. I haven't seen all of the posts Neilly claims have been censored, but I have seen some. They didn't particularly bother me, and I thought some of them actually made a subtle point.

I have been censored both specifically and as part of threads that have been removed. I dont care for it, but I accept it as a reasonable web management approach. What I don't accept, however, that there is some sort of causal link between the threat of future censorship and whatever level of civility I may or may not exhibit.

For example, in a thread that has been removed, two of our premier contributors--a Star Membr and a Veteran Member--both publicly announced, in posts that have also been removed, that they were quitting TBN because they were offended by certain dialogue. They each took a few days vacation, returned, and have continued their outstanding contributions. I bet they have returned, not because they fear or anticipate future censorship on themselves or others, but because civil and persuasive speech or ideas--whether from public posts or private messages or their own internal dialogues with themselves--changed their minds.

scruffy · Oct 19, 2001

I would like to publically state that I feel Muhammad does an Exemplary job of Stewardship over this irreverant group of putt-putters! It is one of the BEST, if not THE BEST, run sites on the web. and now....back to my hidey hole.

fishman · Oct 19, 2001

Glennmac,

An interesting point. I think I would agree that most contributors are not concerned about being censored. Rather, they desire to keep this forum as helpful and useful as possible.

PitbullMidwest · Oct 19, 2001

Gotta wonder, where does the good natured TBN dialogue cross the line to trolling? As I remember the original poster of the "Speed Of Light" thread freely admitted later that he had advanced knowledge of the topic yet asked his question in such a way to draw the greatest number of responses.

Was he trolling? No, not in my opinion. His goal was not to make others appear foolish which IS the goal of trolling. Mohammad seems to know the difference better and sooner than most of us.

Who ever the troll was who started this, I hope he has returned to the basement of the science building and had a good laugh with his fellow geeks and loosers.

theboman · Oct 19, 2001

Trolls use tractors? I'm so confused. Now do I have to buy a tractor for my ant farm?

Bluegrass, Pick It Up!

MikePA · Oct 19, 2001

Not for your ant farm. We all have to buy one and park it under the nearest bridge. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Devildog · Oct 19, 2001

Do we have to pay the troll/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
_____________________________________
Take care all, Jim

2001 B7500 HST 302 Fel R4 Tires, Befco BRB60
Semper Fidelis

MikePA · Oct 19, 2001

Pay 'em or or kiss 'em. Your call. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

cowboydoc · Oct 19, 2001

I'd sure have to second, third, fourth... the fact that Muhammad's "censorship" is completely welcome. I have had a couple of my posts deleted and I thank him for doing that. I surely did not use the best of responses in a couple posts. Muhammad's quick action to not let things snowball has kept us friends when we didn't think we'd be friends again. I don't consider it censorship at all. Even if it was so it's a great and wonderful free site, the best I have ever found on the internet. We don't pay a dime for it and I'm sure everyone here has learned so much from it. I don't think anyone that has had a post deleted where there wasn't very good reason behind it. Muhammad is a true gentleman and you couldn't ask for a better person to be running this site. I say keep up the good work Muhammad. It just doesn't get any better than this.

Anonymous Poster · Oct 19, 2001

I look at this site as a place to visit with other people and learn how to do things as much as anything else. And as such I more or less consider it "Muhammad's House". I don't say anything here that I would not say in Muhammad's house face to face with another person. And if I say something that Muhammad does not like he can kick me out of his house just the same. I figure we are somewhat like invited guests and should act like it, or pay the consequences.

I have found this to be a most valuable site. I have learned more things here than I can remember. I like it here and Muhammad's doings are fine by me.

Bird · Oct 19, 2001

Hmmm, Glennmac, I'm sure most of us know who you're talking about, and yep, I'm ashamed to say that Muhammad deleted some of my posts (for which I am grateful because they needed to be deleted and never should have been posted).

I think you're right about the cause and effect generally, but it's good to have a "moderator?" to take care of the occasional problem.

And I also agree with kubotadriver that it's Muhammad's forum, and since none of us are paying a big monthly fee to use it (except Harv/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif), I figure Muhammad has a right to do whatever he thinks is right (and his opinion of right and wrong seems to match mine pretty well anyway/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif).

In other words, I just hope he keeps up the good work!

Bird

ronjhall · Oct 19, 2001

Bird
except Harv
Is this trolling?/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird · Oct 19, 2001

Is this trolling?

Beats me, Ron. I didn't know what trolling was until I read this thread./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

gordon · Oct 19, 2001

Very well put Glenn.!!!!!!

yup times a changin, look back and see how long it was before he even had to delete a post. Pretty civil bunch I'd say
Gordon

Harv · Oct 19, 2001

Is this trolling?

Well, according to Muhammad, "Trolling aims to elicit an emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply key."

The only emotional response I have ever known Bird to elicit is calm (call him the Perry Como of TBN /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif).

And the only hairs on my reply key have long ago turned gray. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

Besides, Bird likes to pretend I'm the only one who pays the $1,000/month membership fee. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

GlueGuy · Oct 19, 2001

I'm the only one who pays the $1,000/month membership fee.

What? Muhammad must be giving you a discount now that you're a Star? /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Trolls are us.

The GlueGuy

Muhammad · Oct 19, 2001

What? Muhammad must be giving you a discount now that you're a Star?

Actually, it doubles when you become a star member... Harv just doesn't know yet... the invoice gets sent around the 1st of the month. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif Right Harv?!?! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Harv · Oct 19, 2001

<pre>

</pre>

Anonymous Poster · Oct 31, 2001

I finally have the time to write a response. Perhaps my lack of time and short responses were seen as rude.

1. Mohammed absolutely has the right to edit messages on his board.

2. My messages (two of them, not the many some people alleged) were not trolling as per Mohammed's description ( I'm not even sure that was the reason they were taken off). They also were not in violation of the Rules, but again the host of the site has the final determination.

3. I can't emphasize enough the fact that the two posts were not inflammatory. The controversy of one post involved referring to BX machines as glorified lawn mowers, and stated that those guys drink starbucks coffee. Now, this does not seem overly offensive to me, in fact it was meant to be taken lightly. It turns out that 7-eleven coffee is preferred so I guess i was wrong.

4. The other post was a response to a request for help with a weak battery. I told the guy to buy a new battery.

5. Do we all have to be completely politically correct? I don't want to be a part of something that degrades to insults either, but to insist on sanitized, zero confrontational opinions seems contrary to the purpose of a discussion. What is accomplished? Perhaps if the BX riders felt challenged they would stick up for their machines and discuss the pros/cons of big or small.

6. It is amazing to me that tractor riding, land working men are so sensitive to such innoculous statements, that they would have to complain. I challenge these people to stand up and defend themselves (or ignore me), not tattle. Disagreeing is not offensive.

7. Yes, I expect to intiate thoughtful, heartfelt response to my posts -- this is not 'trolling'. It is discussion. I say nothing offensive, nor do I lie. I have a tractor, a few acres of land, and am able to discuss things as well as anyone here. I follow the rules and will register before I ever post again.