Mig gas Bottle Questions

Shield Arc · Mar 27, 2012

deereman75 said:
If your using the same flux core wire for both gas shielded and self shielded, I think thats your problem.

Oh yeah, that's a huge problem!

Scooby074 · Mar 27, 2012

Is there a polarity change required for going from FC to FCGS?

No idea if so, i never ran Dualshield. Only straight FC or mig.

Shield Arc · Mar 27, 2012

I think you'll find most flux core gas shielded wires are DCRP, and most flux core self shielded wires are DCSP, but you have to look at the manufacturer's specification sheet! You can never assume.

toxicjeeper · Mar 27, 2012

Thanks for the Link Sheilded Arc..

This is the wire i have 4 spools of

Outershieldｮ 71M
E71T-1C-J
E71T-9C-J
E71T-1M-J
E71T-9M-J

Bridge, ship, barge or offshore drilling rig construction
General fabrication
Machinery fabrication
Structural fabrication

After reading it says sheilded gas can be 100 percent co2 or the mig mix. I have been running this wire with no gas but I dont get it.. Does it require gas?

I started out on an old stick welder and i could get better welds from my thunderbolt than i can this mig.. although i am out of practise by 5 years or so now..

toxicjeeper · Mar 27, 2012

wow do i ever feel dumb.. It indeed appears this wire requires sheilded gas.. :mur::mur:...all the time i wasted fighting this wire...and to top it off i was running way too low of a voltage cause it was hotter because of no gas...

Got a good reference chart now..

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...Shielded-Outershield-Outershield71M/c3101.pdf

Shield Arc · Mar 27, 2012

I can't honestly say I've ever run that wire, but who knows I've run so much wire in my time I can't remember them all.

toxicjeeper · Mar 27, 2012

the chart #'s are all based on useing 100% co2 at 40-50 cubic fph. That seems like almost double the gas use of other wires?? it also says i can use a mig mix but decrease the voltage. What would you recommend as far as choosing a gas.. I dont have any other mig welders..is co2 that much cheaper than the mig mix?

Scooby074 · Mar 27, 2012

toxicjeeper said:
the chart #'s are all based on useing 100% co2 at 40-50 cubic fph. That seems like almost double the gas use of other wires?? it also says i can use a mig mix but decrease the voltage. What would you recommend as far as choosing a gas.. I dont have any other mig welders..is co2 that much cheaper than the mig mix?

I should add that if your considering staying with dualshield, you might want to lease a large bottle.

You'll burn through a small, owned bottle at that high gas volume in no time. The cost to refill a homeowner vs a large lease bottle are basically the same. The fixed costs like Hazmat, fuel surcharge, MSDS are the same regardless of bottle size, the gas itself is cheap.

I run my gas at as low a volume as possible to save gas.

Shield Arc · Mar 27, 2012

I haven't bought any 100% Co2 in years. So I can't help you with price. What are you going to be welding / building? 100% Co2 will give you more penetration, but also a little more splatter.
You can play with the cfh by backing it off some, but I've seen more wires than not that need just what the manufacture suggest. If you are in a high ball production mode don't worry about the extra gas, this stuff is fast! Not as fast as spray arc, but you can't run spray out of position.

I haven't read every word in this thread, in fact I had to go back to see what kind of welder you're using, so I have some questions for you. Do you have serrated drive rolls for that feeder? And what size wire are you going to be running?

Scooby074 · Mar 27, 2012

Shield Arc said:
I think you'll find most flux core gas shielded wires are DCRP, and most flux core self shielded wires are DCSP, but you have to look at the manufacturer's specification sheet! You can never assume.

Thanks. Good point on checking the manual. Dualshield is a bit of a hybrid, so i guess it could go either way.

Shield Arc · Mar 27, 2012

Off the top of my head I can't think of any dual shield wires that don't run on DCEP. But I can think of at least three flux core self shielded wires that run on DCEP. Most of us weekend warriors won't be running any of them.

toxicjeeper · Mar 27, 2012

Definitly brought up a good point Scooby..I may cut my loss's on this wire and just get a spool of regular soild core with mig mix gas..Either way i will keep the info on lease big tanks and owned smaller ones at hand when i call praxair..

Sheilded arc. welder is cv-300 with an ln-7 feeder with the serrated rollers. Wire size is .045. I am not in a high production welding enivorment( altho i can lay some serious weight when required with this welder). I mostly just build trailers, splitters, fix stuff and general fabrication but recently have needed to have cleaner welds for cosmetic reasons..

Shield Arc · Mar 27, 2012

I've run .045 dual shield with V-goove drive rolls before with no problems. When I looked at your welder, I could imagine you running 1/16 inch or bigger.
In your case, put that dual shield away, and buy some Lincoln L-56, and some v-goove drive rolls for your LN-7.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/212146-mig-break-test.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/welding/237081-vertical-uphill-w-mig.html

toxicjeeper · Mar 27, 2012

hmm..lots to think about now.. :thumbsup: Lots of good insight and help in this thread!

Shield Arc · Mar 27, 2012

For general fab work you'd be hard pressed to find a better process than short circuit Mig welding with .035 wire. You can set your machine where it is just a tad cold for flat welding, and never change a thing and go right into vertical up welding. You should be able to build most projects without ever adjusting your machine!

toxicjeeper · Apr 2, 2012

Bite the bullet and leased a 150 cf tank for 70 bucks a year. Same price to fill a 150cf tank as it was a 50cf tank. ( think that was mention somewhere already here too..)The only tank i could buy at praxair was a 50cf and it looked pretty small.. Had a 44 pound spool of soild core wire in hand when i mention to the clerk that i had a ton of outersheild 71m and he said that was better than what he was gonna sell me when used with gas.. So i am gonna use it with about 50cfh of gas and see what happens..

Scooby074 · Apr 2, 2012

The tanks look small... cause they are :thumbsup::laughing:

Since your running Outershield i think you made the right decision. If you find your not using that much gas, buy a tank next year.

Shield Arc · Apr 2, 2012

toxicjeeper said:
So i am gonna use it with about 50cfh of gas and see what happens..

That seems high to me. I can't find it on Lincoln's site, maybe there is some info in one of the boxes? I'd try 40 to 45-cfh tops. Or call / e-mail Lincoln.

Outershield 71M

toxicjeeper · Apr 2, 2012

Shield Arc said:
That seems high to me. I can't find it on Lincoln's site, maybe there is some info in one of the boxes? I'd try 40 to 45-cfh tops. Or call / e-mail Lincoln.

Outershield 71M

Its under the adobe specs link recommends 40-50 cfh.. I got my wife to print out the voltage chart too for a reference..

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...Shielded-Outershield-Outershield71M/c3101.pdf

Shield Arc · Apr 3, 2012

Oh I see it now, said the blind man.

I always liked dual shield, to me you have the best of both worlds. I was the supervisor on this project. I elected to go with dual shield to weld the 10-feet dia, 1-inch wall pipe hanging on the hook of the crane. 100% xray, I forget how many splices the guys had to make on that project.