Dirt Moving Meandering creek...

[dnels0n]

The creek and my driveway are thinking of merging. That's going to cost me a lot of money because the driveway runs along the face of a steep ridge and I think I might have to start a whole new driveway or build a bridge.

Pictures two, three and nine show the situation pretty well. The creek makes a 90 degree turn here, but is pretty much pointed right at the driveway before the turn.

Pictures one, five, six and seven show the work I have done to this point. I am cutting the sandbar down on the theory the water will at least have room to spread out there and not be so swift. (During tropical events this little creek is completely full and would kill anything that fell in it.) When the level gets low and the soil gets dry this summer I hope to redirect the stream across this newly flattened area.

My worry now is that the sandbar has settled and there is a lot of silt in the lower part, read getting stuck.

I was going to upload here but not sure how many attachments are allowed. I put this in a sub-gallery of my driveway repair gallery.
drivcrk Photo Gallery by Don Nelson at pbase.com = Creek work
Driveway shots before and after Photo Gallery by Don Nelson at pbase.com = Driveway work.
Most images there have captions.

Equipment is a Kubota B3300SU and king cutter box blade.

Thanks for any comments/suggestions.

Don

 

[whistlepig]

Probably the cheapest fix would be some busted up concrete dumped in the area that the creek is cutting the bank.

 

[taborekle]

I have to agree with whistlepig here that your going to need some heavy rocks or cement to stabilize the creek bank. You should be able to have a local quary drop off a load or two of heavy rocks. You can then use the tractor to put them on the creek bank.

 

[whistlepig]

I used to live next to a meandering creek. The biggest improvement I saw to it was when the county (not me) put a track hoe in the middle of it and straightening it out downstream of me. This greatly reduced the congestion of the creek upstream and caused much less cutting of the banks on our place. Streams can meander the wrong way for a few years and then meander back the right way for a few years. But I guess you know that.

 

[Jay4200]

Thanks for any comments/suggestions.

What's your budget and how long is that road? Do you just have the problem in one spot? I'd build a hefty bank with erosion control stone (3"-6") 3' high or so, placed behind a rock wall made out of 1'-2' boulders. Then I'd re-cut the road bed as needed into the land side of the stone. Then, I'd spread a half foot of 1 1/2" gravel behind the stone and top with 4"-6" of 3/4" hardpack gravel.

JayC

 

[boggen]

if it was me. and just that one spot. i might do a retaining wall.

i called some local lumber yards and asked for 6x6 inch lumber and more so ""seconds"" seconds are lumber everyone else tossed off to the side because the lumber had nots or bark or just rough cut really bad. the stuff ends up being cheaper. and many times can be turned a certain direction and pointed back into the dirt. so it can not be seen. and some times bad end can be cut off.

i got some long spikes ((other words 10" to 12" heavy duty nails)) got a couple drill bits (one will always break on you at least for me) to drill through first 6x6. and then drive a spike down into the next 6x6 with a 4lb hammer or mini sledge. sometimes a regular sledge is needed.

you also need to put in some dead man. a dead man is a piece of lumber that Tee's the wall back into the ground. and helps keep the wall from falling back into the creek. i think i spaced dead men every other row. then every other piece. then next every other row up. i would alternate things.

good part about doing the 6x6 lumber, you can push them over the side right along the road way. with less fighting, of dealing with rock, boulders, concrete blocks, concrete period.

the 6x6 lumber should last a good many years (for me, most likely 20yrs or longer). and when it comes time to replace, the lumber has most likely dry rotted, and makes lifting the pieces much easier due to they are lighter, vs when it came to installing them. treated 6x6 lumber is like rail road ties. it is good hard lumber, and i have seen it used many times for retraining walls on edge of lakes, were half the wall is submerged underwater.

once wall is up. you will need to back fill up against the wall. making sure the dead men are also covered.

=======================
as far as creek crossing. putting a lot of good size rocks down, or building yourself basically long trailer ramps. but in this case creek crossing ramps. maybe made out of 2x12's doubled up, hhmmsss, see about getting something welded up, something like an extension ladder, with some gratting over it. so you can get over the creek.

i say temporary solution for creek crossing, would most likely be a better idea for you. that way when you are done you can pull the stuff out. and not find it next year a couple hundred feet or a couple miles down stream.

 

[KBL3830]

I'm with Jay, if you just drop boulders in they can create eddies that will actually accelerate the erosion but it looks like there's enough current that smaller stone could get picked up so his multi layer plan for erosion control is the way to go. Just make sure to start upstream of the cut or the water will eat in behind it.

 

[arsenix2001]

Id rent yourself a big trackhoe and cut that badboy right where you want it. Tell that creek to suck it and dig a whole new strait channel through that entire area putting the spoils along your drive... :drink:

 

[ClendenninTrail]

My situation is very similar to yours. I have been very successful lining the creek with 50-70 lb rip rap. I have tried Erosion Control Stone because it is easy to transport, but it has failed during severe gulley washers.

Straightening or redirecting the stream next to my drive is not even an option. Where I live, creeks cannot be redirected. Just driving a piece of equipment through one will get you a hefty fine if done without a permit.

Heavy stone has worked well, and 50-70 lb stone is common at most quarries. It cost around $6.00 a ton, and I pay $65 per 9 ton delivery. My local query will not deliver it because of damage to dump truck beds during loading; however, there is a man up the road with an old beat up dump truck that has no problem delivering it for me. I have used my BX-25 and a skid steer to move 72 tons. I can easily move 18 tons in a weekend. I typically dump it along the banks, and then move the stones by hand. Arranging the stones by hand will make them go much farther and goes faster than you might think.

I have also used steel gabion baskets filled with ECS stone is one severe area. I probably would have been fine with heavy stone.

 

[dnels0n]

Thanks to everyone for their responses and suggestions. I don't have much of a budget and that is one reason I am trying to get a head start on it and do as much work as I can. A retaining wall would be nice but I think it would have to be quite long. I am bringing rocks in from around this 80 acres and I think I can borrow some rocks from neighbors. :laughing:

I don't think this creek will get around to meandering back anytime soon. It squeezes in between two ridges here. I could make a helluva lake here, but the water would cover the driveway and come up to my front door.

Looks like rain for a few days now, so I may not get back to actual dirt moving for quite a while.
Two new pictures here:
Drive-Creek12.jpg photo - Don Nelson photos at pbase.com
Drive-Creek11.jpg photo - Don Nelson photos at pbase.com

Don

 

[theboman]

Thats a tough situation for sure. Over the years the road I grew up on in front of my mothers and brothers houses has both lost front yard due to the stream by the highway. They highway dept. had dumped limestone and of the years the family has used logs, rock, whatever.... Nothing is helping... it's now taking the yards and eating underneath the road.

 

[MarkV]

In the photo album of the creek you show an old dam. Is that before or after the bad spot in the road?

MarkV

 

[kjung17]

Have you considered having the undercut bank lined with sheet piling to stop the erosion? You'd have to have someone drive the piling, but the repair would last for years.

 

[Travelover]

I had a similar problem at my last house and I solved it by building a stacked wall of broken concrete about 5 feet tall, wide at the bottom, narrow at the top. I just kept my eye out for free broken concrete and dumped load after load near the edge, then carefully stacked it in place. I even found a contractor that would drop off clean broken concrete by the dump truck load. It looked pretty good when I was done. My neighbor was lazy and just dumped piles of concrete and his side looked like a concrete dump.

This was about 25 years ago. I was by there a few years ago and the wall was still intact.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Creeks and rivers meander from cut bank to cut bank over time (geologic time that is). The forces at work are often tremendous, and the science is complex. What happens up-stream affects the meandering downstream. Don't be surprised if what seems to be an obvious solution does not last in the long run. It is the big rains that get you.

I know this may not be information you want to hear, but you should consider either employing a specialist, or educate yourself on civil engineering stream banks.

 

[dnels0n]

In the photo album of the creek you show an old dam. Is that before or after the bad spot in the road?

MarkV

That is after the "convergence area".

dwn

 

[rdsaustintx]

"geomorphology"

My partner here (engineering company) is a hydrologist. In soft soils with fast water the creek channel will move, as you are seeing, lots of scour on the outside bank. On the inside bank silt settles.

Fastest solution is armor the outside with rip rap. Lots of it. If you want a little more margin, stack battered gabions then bury it it with rip rap.

If you want a retaining wall, get it engineered. If you want to use locking blocks, at least get the footing engineered. The trick with any rigid retention is preventing undermining. On critical walls they inspect every couple of years and pump grout into the voids.

The hydrologists like to say, "You are fighting nature, all erosion control is temporary." Best expected life is reinforced concrete (50 years), but you can get a couple of decades out of stacked gabions.

Good suggestions here but would strongly recommend against timber.

Edit: Your place is BEAUTIFUL!

 

[brahman265]

I too have been battling creek erosion for many years. Actually have had good success cutting a straighter path with a dozier but you have to keep an eye out as over time the water will cut back to the original path. As a low cost option I have had success attaching cedar trees (lots of limbs) to the creek bank and over time quite a lot of sediment and debris will build up. I drive a t post into the bank and attach the tree with heavy wire. I got this idea from an internet search on creek bank erosion. Anyway good luck.

 

[MarkV]

That is after the "convergence area".

dwn

Makes me wonder if removing that obstruction would let the water move more freely without backing up and eroding that bank. Anyone have any thoughts?

MarkV

 

[ShenandoahJoe]

That picture of the "tropical event" makes me pessimistic. When my river looks like that, it's moved 2-foot rocks half a mile downstream, and ripped my deadmen completely out of the bank. I asked the county forester if there was something I could plant that would grow in the years between deluges. He just laughed.

The bridge is looking like your best shot. Do you know somebody who will sell you one?