Locating a waterline leak.

[zzvyb6]

Hello All.
My barn water supply line is feed from my house well. The line is tee'd of from within the basement, so I can shut it off from inside the house without turning off water to the house. The basement line leaves the house to the barn about 7' below the ground. Then it's a 50 yard run to a tee valve, then to a hydrant and on to the barn. The depth there is about 5'. There is an obvious leak somewhere out there. In the past, a rock would pinch the line, a spring would rise up and I would dig it up there and patch it. This time the flow is much larger and no spring has pooled up. I obviously want to avoid trenching a new line out to the hydrant. I suspect the leak is due to a joint blowing out near the house instead of a rock cut. I'm open to any and all ideas on how to localize the problem. I've even considered blowing some high pressure air into the line to see if I can listen for it. What do the 'ex-spurts' say?
Thank you.

 

[gordon21]

Every water utility in the country has the high tech sound detectors to look for leaks. The machine looks like a walking stick. The worker walks along keeping the point near the ground and listening to his headphones. Ask to see if they will provide this service for you even though you are on a well. They might even be available for rental. It should take only a few minutes to find an active leak.

 

[Dusty]

I say that you are going to be digging a new line. Next time put the line into a 3" PVC schedule 40 pipe, and your life will be a lot easier. No rocks to contend with, and replacement is going to be very easy, if you ever need to replace it. My line from my well has been in PVC pipe for over 20 years, and no problems so far..... Knock on wood!
Dusty

 

[randy41]

Every water utility in the country has the high tech sound detectors to look for leaks.

not every place in the country has a water utility.

 

[gordon21]

There must be some public water utility within 25 miles??? Even little towns of 500 people use public water, don't they? If not, then rental places might have them.

 

[kenmac]

Seems like that whe water would come to the surface somewhere. Even water leaks in the street come to the surface.

 

[Champy]

The last thing you want is to have this leak next to your foundation (I know personally). It can really mess up your walls big time.

If you don't have any other choice, you might consider calling the local septic service in your area. I did for mine, and they came out with an optic cable/camera; stuffed it down the pipe and found the break based on how far the cable travelled when they viewed the break on the Mini-TV display. This may not work for a normal leak though - just brainstorming for ya.

 

[EddieWalker]

Being as deep as your line is, it's easy to understand that the leak could be traveling alon the pipe for some distance. I've heard stories of this happening for thousands of feet. If there is any sort of undground tunnel from rodents or an old rotted out root to just about anything, the water may never come to the surface.

The first thing I'd do is get a piece of 3/8 rebar and put a handle on one end to form a very tall T. Then start poking it into the ground every four feet to see if you can get a spot to let the water out. If you find water, that won't mean it's the right spot, just a good clue.

Keep doing the entire line to see what you find.

I'm hoping that there is an area of more preasure than any other areas. If you find a dozen places that you get water from, one will probably have more flow than the others.

If this doesn't work, you can either replace the entire line or play the 50/50 game. Dig down at the middle of the line. Cut it and cap both ends. Test to see which side is leaking, then do this again in the middle of that line. Keep doing it until you find the leak.

You didn't mention what the pipe is made out of or what size it is. For such a short run, and since you've had problems before, I might just run a new Schedule 40 line and be done with it.

I've wasted manydays looking for leaks and in the end just replaced the line in one day anyway. If I'd done that first, I'd have saved several days of frustration.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[frank_f15]

HOW long has this line been under ground?

 

[randy41]

how far from the hydrant to the barn? or is the hydrant at the barn? maybe you can determine which side of the hydrant the leak is on.

 

[Birdhunter1]

If it is a frost proof hydrant I would check there first, possibly the valve below grade that allows the water to drain has corroded/rusted and it is leaking there all the time. My dad had that happen once at his place, of course we also thought there was a leak near the house since water was seeping in around the water line entering the basement wall. Dug down to the water line and sure enough it was leaking there too.

Eddie had the best idea though, since it has been problematc over the years just replace it, it won't take half a day probably.

 

[zzvyb6]

Thank you all. I believe I'll get Mis Dig out here to mark the line. Then, I'll pressurize the line and count to see how quickly it builds. This will tell be about how far out the break is. I like the 50/50 idea because it WILL get me there. I can use my PH digger to get the site narrowed down if I'm lucky. I am worried about the proximity to the foundation, though. I will try 'witching' for it, too. This actually worked for me for the same problem once before! It was between the hydrant and the barn. The sonic deal seems the most appealing because it ought to put me right on top of it. BTW the line is 2" plastic and is about 30 years old. The barn is somewhat down hill from the house so there is a pressure regulator at the house to reduce the internal pressure in the line at the barn. This is to reduce the pressure surge from the momentum of the wate when a hydrant or hose is turned off. I have some time off this week. I'll post the solution to this problem when it comes in. I'm not ready yet to throw in the towel and replace the entire run of pipe. The conduit suggestion is really good. I did that myself for the electrical. Wouldn't you know it, a lightning strike took out the main feed 3 weeks later. Rerunning the #4 was a breeze.
Happy Holidays. (it was 54 degrees here today. Might take the snow plow off and put the mowers back on. Saw quite a few Blue Bird scouts on site today, too...

 

[Dusty]

I cut the grass for the last time 4 times, and last night, I dreamed that it was time to cut the grass again. Tonight while walking the dog, I realized that the grass has been growing again, and it really could use a trim. There is no way that I am going to drag out the mower deck. I intend to put the snowblower on tomorrow, but if it is a nice warm day, I will probably find some other project to do. My wife calls me the cold weather procrastinator. I don't ever think about snow, until I see the fluffy white stuff accumulation on the driveway. Prior to that, it is just another cool fall day.
Dusty

 

[drssg]

Maybe you already know this, but it wouldn't hurt to test that it is not an adjustment issue with the hydrant, before breaking out the excavating equipment. Fill a bucket of water from the hydrant, then turn off the water and stick the hydrant nozzle below the water level in the bucket. If it doesn't suck water out of the bucket, then it's not draining properly, and you may be able to fix it by adjusting the nuts that control the shutoff position.

I learned this AFTER I dug up our hydrant. I saw that water was constantly leaking out of the drain hole. I replaced the hydrant with another one that I happened to have on hand, and it did the same then. So I finally had to break down and read the directions. That's when I learned that I could have fixed the problem with a wrench, instead of a backhoe!

So this is probably different from your situation, but it's not a bad thing to rule out, before starting a BIG project.

Rick

 

[zzvyb6]

It was the back hydrant, just like drssg said. I shut off each leg until I got the barn back on-line without the well pump staying on. I might have bashed it a bit as I backed up mowing. I pushed the water trough into it just enough to release the hydrant lever. This is an unused pasture so It never got any attention. I suspect the draining water leached into the windmill pump so it just got ignored. Anyways, its ok to get cold and snowy now. My outside work is done for this year.

Great ideas, guys, but the leaking hydrant footvalve gets the gold star.