Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[downsizingnow48]

Thanks for the replies on the tilt/swivel mower. I don't have lots of road banks but I do have ravines and swales and a lot of undergrowth amid trees I would like to clean up. Now I am considering the trade off between the 48" model at 620lbs and the 55" at 685lbs. The smaller one would be better at getting into constricted spaces. The larger one would cover the tractor tracks on the flat.

 

[Fallon]

Anyone figure out the "BEST" replacement belts for the Caroni 1900 ?
It seems I bought a set of 3 spares when I bought the mower a dozen or so years ago, now that I need them I have discovered that they are 48 inch ones and WAY too long.

Is it worth buying the fancy (kevlar) ones ?

Yes. Kevlar ones are generally worth it if they are going to be abused with shock loads & harder enviroments.

 

[def38]

Anyone figure out the "BEST" replacement belts for the Caroni 1900 ?
It seems I bought a set of 3 spares when I bought the mower a dozen or so years ago, now that I need them I have discovered that they are 48 inch ones and WAY too long.

Is it worth buying the fancy (kevlar) ones ?

Do I understand, your belts lasted 12 years? What is the price difference between regular and Kevlar belts? Divide the difference by 12 and you have the cost per year for Kevlar over regular. Then, do the same analysis assuming the Kevlar belts last, say an additional 5 years. Now you can make the call.

 

[Fallon]

Do I understand, your belts lasted 12 years? What is the price difference between regular and Kevlar belts? Divide the difference by 12 and you have the cost per year for Kevlar over regular. Then, do the same analysis assuming the Kevlar belts last, say an additional 5 years. Now you can make the call.

I add in a pain in the *** modifier for buying the belts & having to install them. That tips things in favor of the longer lasting wear items by a bit most of the time.

 

[def38]

I add in a pain in the *** modifier for buying the belts & having to install them. That tips things in favor of the longer lasting wear items by a bit most of the time.

Agreed.

 

[Darvish]

Well, those hydraulic articulated side-reachers look pretty snazzy, particularly for the $$. I'd carefully investigate why the "Medium duty" is almost 30% more than the "regular duty": could be instructional.

The Vrismo I bought over 30 years ago is still going strong, but only because I reinforced the frame with a heavy piece of angle iron shortly after purchasing it: and re-routed the upper arms so they weren't dependent on two 3/8d 1 1/2 " bolts in the cast iron of the transmission/rt. angle drive on top. The design wasn't the best, but the metal gauge was good.

I had backed into a stump with my old 245DT, and dented the roller. After trying to straighten it and undimple it, I made do for a year, though the grass had unseemly ripples in it.

So I took it down to Vrismo, and asked what the replacement price was, which was just under $300. I suddenly became awak-er upon hearing this: and commented on how it appeared to be a section of truck driveline, with end fittings, and I would have to check a couple of things afore I invested that much.

Cost me $65 at a driveline place in W Sacramento. Mo betta

 

[downsizingnow48]

I looked up the specs on the medium duty version, seems to weigh almost 2x as much as the standard duty. Much heavier construction.

I do wonder about the price and the quality. I see EA sells an equivalent 47" bank and slope mower for about $5500. Generally EA is very competitive on price and quality. So what explains a 3.5k price difference. I dunno.

Well I figure I will probably go with the cheap eBay mower. If something is not working right or breaks I can always fix it.

 

[retiredfarmer]

Flail Mower Vibration:

So, I bought a couple of 79" state used flail mowers as winter project machines. One had some vibration. Through a process of ratchet strapping steel weights, running the mower and welding them to the rotor as the vibration improved, I have one running smoothly.

The other has more severe vibration and the process of systematically attaching weights yields no improvement whatsoever. This mower did have a bearing seize on the idler side of the rotor (not the belt drive side).

My question is; where is this vibration coming from? All the blades are off the rotor. The rotor is 79 inches wide, 17 inches in circumference, and has a 45mm bearing axle on either end. One bearing was just replaced (SKF), the other bearing had no perceptible play. These are self aligning bearings. There are 21 stations to which hammer flails attach.

I'm having a hard time believing that this rotor is bent. It is very heavy.

Now that I am writing this though, it occurs to me that I do need to put a dial indicator on the drive and driven sheaves to see if perhaps the sheaves are the cause of this vibration.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Thank you,
RF

 

[3Lfarms]

Is the PTO shaft straight?

 

[retiredfarmer]

3L,
I will check this.
It is the same shaft I used to balance the other mower. I suppose I could have simply balanced the other rotor to offset a bent PTO. Hmmm... I need to look at that.

I was reading on another TBN flail post that the bearing could seem good but the rollers could all bunch up under load. Seems like the bearing would have some play in it.

Thx,
RF

 

[downsizingnow48]

Doing more research on the ditch bank mower, it seems the same machine is sold by several companies. I ordered it from a company called Betstco, in Oregon. They had the best price, no shipping charge, and thousands of positive Ebay reviews.

57" Standard Ditch Bank Flail Mower, FH-AGL145 |

 

[def38]

Well, those hydraulic articulated side-reachers look pretty snazzy, particularly for the $$. I'd carefully investigate why the "Medium duty" is almost 30% more than the "regular duty": could be instructional.

The Vrismo I bought over 30 years ago is still going strong, but only because I reinforced the frame with a heavy piece of angle iron shortly after purchasing it: and re-routed the upper arms so they weren't dependent on two 3/8d 1 1/2 " bolts in the cast iron of the transmission/rt. angle drive on top. The design wasn't the best, but the metal gauge was good.

I had backed into a stump with my old 245DT, and dented the roller. After trying to straighten it and undimple it, I made do for a year, though the grass had unseemly ripples in it.

So I took it down to Vrismo, and asked what the replacement price was, which was just under $300. I suddenly became awak-er upon hearing this: and commented on how it appeared to be a section of truck driveline, with end fittings, and I would have to check a couple of things afore I invested that much.

Cost me $65 at a driveline place in W Sacramento. Mo betta

Automotive driveshaft services can straighten, balance and likely repair any flail rotor or rear roller.

Years ago, I had a driveshaft repaired on a motorhome. The guy told me mine was out of balance and said, if he didn't fix my vibration, he would refund my money. Cost me $40.00 back then. He also taught me about u-joint phasing.That repair allowed me to increase my highway cruise speed without any driveline vibration. He had all kinds of shafts off a variety of equipment that he was repairing, balancing and installing new bearings and crosses in.

As Darvish discovered, don't overlook a driveshaft repair shop for flail mower shaft work.

 

[retiredfarmer]

Def38,
Thank you!
RF

 

[retiredfarmer]

I think I am going to take the belts off and run the PTO Gearbox and Drive Pulley to see if the problem might be topside.
RF

 

[powerscol]

Doing more research on the ditch bank mower, it seems the same machine is sold by several companies. I ordered it from a company called Betstco, in Oregon. They had the best price, no shipping charge, and thousands of positive Ebay reviews.

57" Standard Ditch Bank Flail Mower, FH-AGL145 |

Please don't take me wrong, but do you have enough tractor for the unit. Specifications indicate tractor weight at 4000 lbs and 25 pto HP. I could not find your tractor on tractor data unless it is a B2100, Tractor weight is critical for stability, but you can fudge somewhat on HP. I have the Maschio Giraffetta 160SE Flail Mower shown in my signature and with my Bobcat CT 235 I am right at the limit

However what is most important to check in the mower specifications is will the pivot point of the mower head be outside your rear tire. Some of the offset you can get by moving the 3pt to the side. That is a must to be able to mow ditch banks safely, keeping the tractor on the flat. I can assure you that from time to time, even with the tractor on the flat, the mower will tend to pull the rear of the tractor sideways. I posted about this here somewhere when I was choosing my swing arm unit. Also do you have enough remotes to run.

Wishing you the best on your choice.

On edit - On thing that can help in getting a swing are mower that will rotate outside the rear tire track is where is the mower drive unit. If it is outboard (on end of unit) you can get more reach. The unit I have is built that way.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Thanks for your comments, all very much to the point.

First on the operations I have in mind. I do not have high steep banks that need to be mowed. I have uneven ground and moderate swales and (especially) a lot of trees and bushes that I need to mow under and around. So I am not getting this model mower for ultimate embankment performance. What I need is greater operational flexibility, on more or less flat territory, than a fixed flail mower would provide. I also need the mower to be wide enough to operate straight behind the tractor covering the tracks, but not so wide it is always in the way on the right side.

The B21 is a small industrial TLB that weighs 4000 lbs with backhoe. Without backhoe, but with loader and 4 in 1 bucket, it is about 3100 lbs. That is short of the recommended 4000 lbs. If I find the setup is too tippy I can add counterweights.

Rated PTO horsepower is about 14. Pretty low compared to the recommended 25. But even the 48" flail mower calls for 20 pto horsepower. I have used my rotary cutter and tiller for years, both requiring more PTO hp than I have, without much trouble. If I took the PTO hp recommendation seriously, I would not get a flail mower at all. I might not be able to go full steam into a thicket of 2" bushes, but I am pretty sure I can do what I need to do, nibbling if need be.

On the pivot point. As noted I do not need to hang the mower down a high steep bank. But I do need to be able to keep it straight behind the tractor. I looked at the outboard models. They are heavier and quite a bit more costly. And as far as I can tell, would always project to the right of the B21, even when swung to the left. In this as everything else, there are tradeoffs.

On control valves, I set up a three spool valve for my top and tilt a while back. I can run both mower cylinders plus my hydraulic top link. I think that will be fine.

Many thanks for your comments which are on exactly the tradeoffs I have been considering. When I get the thing I will try it out right away and give an update on how it is working out.

 

[powerscol]

Thanks for your comments, all very much to the point.

First on the operations I have in mind. I do not have high steep banks that need to be mowed. I have uneven ground and moderate swales and (especially) a lot of trees and bushes that I need to mow under and around. So I am not getting this model mower for ultimate embankment performance. What I need is greater operational flexibility, on more or less flat territory, than a fixed flail mower would provide. I also need the mower to be wide enough to operate straight behind the tractor covering the tracks, but not so wide it is always in the way on the right side.

The B21 is a small industrial TLB that weighs 4000 lbs with backhoe. Without backhoe, but with loader and 4 in 1 bucket, it is about 3100 lbs. That is short of the recommended 4000 lbs. If I find the setup is too tippy I can add counterweights.

Rated PTO horsepower is about 14. Pretty low compared to the recommended 25. But even the 48" flail mower calls for 20 pto horsepower. I have used my rotary cutter and tiller for years, both requiring more PTO hp than I have, without much trouble. If I took the PTO hp recommendation seriously, I would not get a flail mower at all. I might not be able to go full steam into a thicket of 2" bushes, but I am pretty sure I can do what I need to do, nibbling if need be.

On the pivot point. As noted I do not need to hang the mower down a high steep bank. But I do need to be able to keep it straight behind the tractor. I looked at the outboard models. They are heavier and quite a bit more costly. And as far as I can tell, would always project to the right of the B21, even when swung to the left. In this as everything else, there are tradeoffs.

On control valves, I set up a three spool valve for my top and tilt a while back. I can run both mower cylinders plus my hydraulic top link. I think that will be fine.

Many thanks for your comments which are on exactly the tradeoffs I have been considering. When I get the thing I will try it out right away and give an update on how it is working out.

Sounds like you have things covered. If you find you need additional stability, load the rear tires (fill). I have mine loaded and it really improves handling and work.

 

[mred2]

I have the same mower on my LS. And I do have all tires filled. If you fill the rear tires, I think you will be ok there. But in heavy grass and brush I would question the hp. If you go high rpm and slow, judge for yourself.

 

[3Lfarms]

Since your machine is lighter than recommended, make sure you only actuate the hydraulics when the tractor is at idle, at least until you have had some practice with it. You might even want to put restrictors in the hydraulics if it doesn’t come from the factory that way.

I have a larger commercial ditch/bank mower, and when I actuate the hydraulics, it throws my 9k lb tractor around a bit. I think I could pretty easily lay the tractor over on its side if I was a bit careless.

 

[Fallon]

Thanks for your comments, all very much to the point.

First on the operations I have in mind. I do not have high steep banks that need to be mowed. I have uneven ground and moderate swales and (especially) a lot of trees and bushes that I need to mow under and around. So I am not getting this model mower for ultimate embankment performance. What I need is greater operational flexibility, on more or less flat territory, than a fixed flail mower would provide. I also need the mower to be wide enough to operate straight behind the tractor covering the tracks, but not so wide it is always in the way on the right side.

The B21 is a small industrial TLB that weighs 4000 lbs with backhoe. Without backhoe, but with loader and 4 in 1 bucket, it is about 3100 lbs. That is short of the recommended 4000 lbs. If I find the setup is too tippy I can add counterweights.

Rated PTO horsepower is about 14. Pretty low compared to the recommended 25. But even the 48" flail mower calls for 20 pto horsepower. I have used my rotary cutter and tiller for years, both requiring more PTO hp than I have, without much trouble. If I took the PTO hp recommendation seriously, I would not get a flail mower at all. I might not be able to go full steam into a thicket of 2" bushes, but I am pretty sure I can do what I need to do, nibbling if need be.

On the pivot point. As noted I do not need to hang the mower down a high steep bank. But I do need to be able to keep it straight behind the tractor. I looked at the outboard models. They are heavier and quite a bit more costly. And as far as I can tell, would always project to the right of the B21, even when swung to the left. In this as everything else, there are tradeoffs.

On control valves, I set up a three spool valve for my top and tilt a while back. I can run both mower cylinders plus my hydraulic top link. I think that will be fine.

Many thanks for your comments which are on exactly the tradeoffs I have been considering. When I get the thing I will try it out right away and give an update on how it is working out.

I wouldnt wory much about HP. I ran a 7' behind a 25pto HP L3200. You can compensate by going slow (especially with a HST).

I would heavily wory about your weight & width. Your TBL will be heavy for its class, but very narrow for a 4,000 CUT.

My L4060 feels it when I shift my Super Bull (1,700lbs 8'). When i offset it fully to the right the belt guard is even with the left tire. So despite being heavier it's likely putting less side torque on my 5,000lbs 72" track machine than that smaller mower would when it hangs way out. The heavy end of the mower & the gearbox stays on the left of or equal to the drawbar giving me some balance still.

I'm gonna guess that you could pull it off ok if the roller on the mower stayed supported by the ground. But if it came off the ground it might get pretty hairy quickly.