Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[ovrszd]

Many of us with many years of flail mower ownership and knowledge
regarding flail mowers their operation and knife type have tried to help you with this.

This specific flail mower rotors rotation being counterclockwise as you have stated
will affect the quality of cut with the one piece scoop blades which I have gone
into extensive detail on many occasions for owners of flail mowers with the scoop
one piece knives.

the scoop knives counterclockwise rotation has the cutting edge coming behind the material
the flail mower user wishes to cut down and the the material will flood the front of the flail
mowers shroud when the portion of it that is cut is carried over the flail mower rotor and
will not be recut.

scoop knives do not recut material they cut and carry it over the flail mower rotor and anything
left in its path is dimply carried over again and dropped on the ground.

If you visit the Hiniker home page and look at the flail shredders with the scoop knive option it explains it very well.

The number of times a plot or area is cut will also affect how the flail mower with the scoop
knive will cut the grass or brush and the quality of finish.






==============================================================================

But I thought you said my rotor was not rotating the same direction as the tractor tires?

I thought you also indicated that my problem might be my lack of knowledge in setting up the mower??

So what is your solution to my problem now??

Oh, and you might also acknowledge Arc weld's comments as having some merit. Or maybe not....

 

[IslandTractor]

But I thought you said my rotor was not rotating the same direction as the tractor tires? I thought you also indicated that my problem might be my lack of knowledge in setting up the mower?? So what is your solution to my problem now?? Oh, and you might also acknowledge Arc weld's comments as having some merit. Or maybe not....

I've just gone back to read your posts from the start of your complaints about flails. Do you realize that you gave almost no specific information? You just started ranting about flails. Slowly more information was dragged out of you but I don't recall you stating that your blades were filling up with grass. Good for Arc Weld for having experience with the same type flail and blade so he recognized what your problem is. I've never experienced that because I don't have single piece blades. Not sure you mentioned that either as most heavy duty blades are either hammers or clevis hung with dual pivots. I believe Leonz asked about your blades. I could be mistook but from my experience the single long blades are more often on finish flails rather than all purpose or heavy duty flails.

Regardless, your unsatisfactory experience getting help on this or any forum is pretty typical of someone who starts off the conversation by exclaiming that he doesn't like something rather than starting with just the facts. Chevy sucks. Why won't my truck start.

Glad ArcWeld saved your bacon.

 

[ovrszd]

I've just gone back to read your posts from the start of your complaints about flails. Do you realize that you gave almost no specific information? You just started ranting about flails. Slowly more information was dragged out of you but I don't recall you stating that your blades were filling up with grass. Good for Arc Weld for having experience with the same type flail and blade so he recognized what your problem is. I've never experienced that because I don't have single piece blades. Not sure you mentioned that either as most heavy duty blades are either hammers or clevis hung with dual pivots. I believe Leonz asked about your blades. I could be mistook but from my experience the single long blades are more often on finish flails rather than all purpose or heavy duty flails.

Regardless, your unsatisfactory experience getting help on this or any forum is pretty typical of someone who starts off the conversation by exclaiming that he doesn't like something rather than starting with just the facts. Chevy sucks. Why won't my truck start.

Glad ArcWeld saved your bacon.

If you truly went back and read my posts you would know what blades I have.

No one had to drag anything out of me.

I started posting on this thread by saying I didn't understand what all the hype was about.

I repeatedly have said I understand my Flail's capabilities.

I only pushed back when others told me I DID NOT understand MY Flail's capabilities or how it operated.

I've also said before and say now,,,,, you guys sure get defensive.

Lastly, I have not had an "unsatisfactory experience getting help". I never asked for help. I also never expected any miracles. I and several other posters on this thread have stated the reality about this particular Flail's abilities. Then you and Leonz commenced to suggest that it might be "operator error".

I'm also glad Arc weld posted. But he didn't do it to "save my bacon". It doesn't need saved.

 

[ovrszd]

I've just gone back to read your posts from the start of your complaints about flails. Do you realize that you gave almost no specific information? You just started ranting about flails. Slowly more information was dragged out of you but I don't recall you stating that your blades were filling up with grass. Good for Arc Weld for having experience with the same type flail and blade so he recognized what your problem is. I've never experienced that because I don't have single piece blades. Not sure you mentioned that either as most heavy duty blades are either hammers or clevis hung with dual pivots. I believe Leonz asked about your blades. I could be mistook but from my experience the single long blades are more often on finish flails rather than all purpose or heavy duty flails.

Regardless, your unsatisfactory experience getting help on this or any forum is pretty typical of someone who starts off the conversation by exclaiming that he doesn't like something rather than starting with just the facts. Chevy sucks. Why won't my truck start.

Glad ArcWeld saved your bacon.

If you truly went back and read my posts you would know what blades I have.

No one had to drag anything out of me.

I started posting on this thread by saying I didn't understand what all the hype was about.

I repeatedly have said I understand my Flail's capabilities.

I only pushed back when others told me I DID NOT understand MY Flail's capabilities or how it operated.

I've also said before and say now,,,,, you guys sure get defensive.

Lastly, I have not had an "unsatisfactory experience getting help". I never asked for help. I also never expected any miracles. I and several other posters on this thread have stated the reality about this particular Flail's abilities. Then you and Leonz commenced to suggest that it might be "operator error".

I'm also glad Arc weld posted. But he didn't do it to "save my bacon". It doesn't need saved.

 

[Arc weld]

Here's a brochure for the Alamo/Mott flails explaining forward rotation. It doesn't mention it but they can be ordered in reverse rotation but it's not as common. It mentions reverse rotation being an option on the Interstator models which use hyd. driven side mowers in conjunction with a rear 3pt. flail so it must be available. I wasn't trying to save ovrszd's bacon. I was just posting a fact that flails can run either direction. I'm not familiar with all flails so maybe not all can run both directions. I'm a little familiar with Mott flails as I used to put knives on them when I was a kid in the 70's. If my dad was still around he could probably tell you an encyclopedia worth of information on cutting grass with all types of mowers. As far as flails he was very good friends with Elmer Mott who's dad invented them. When the Interstator came out in the early 70's my dad set a world sales record and sold almost half of the first 100 Interstators made. He was directly responsible for Mott adding the 62" Super Heavy Duty model so lower HP tractors could use a heavy duty flail. A dealer in Quebec was selling Mott's mounted backwards on the front of 4 wheel vehicles they also sold. The problem was they weren't the authorized dealer for the region and were selling them at a huge discount to sell their 4 wheel truck type vehicles. Elmer Mott called the factory from my dad's office and told them not to sell anymore mowers to that dealer. Not just because they were undermining the dealer for the region but because they made his machines look bad operating backwards with the roller ahead of the rotor. We had a Ford 917 in trade and it wasn't half the machine the Mott was. Just compare the deck thickness. The Ford was sheet metal and all dented up where the Mott's were 10 gauge (1/8") steel. Our neighbor had a Ford in much better condition but we changed the knives to Mott and it worked a lot better and didn't use as much HP. An interesting thing with Mott's is you have to run at 540 RPM or the bend in the knives actually changes and the knives deform.

http://www.alamo-industrial.com/Documents/Literature/1_shd_aug_2013.pdf

 

[TSO]

Here's a brochure for the Alamo/Mott flails explaining forward rotation. It doesn't mention it but they can be ordered in reverse rotation but it's not as common. It mentions reverse rotation being an option on the Interstator models which use hyd. driven side mowers in conjunction with a rear 3pt. flail so it must be available. I wasn't trying to save ovrszd's bacon. I was just posting a fact that flails can run either direction. I'm not familiar with all flails so maybe not all can run both directions. I'm a little familiar with Mott flails as I used to put knives on them when I was a kid in the 70's. If my dad was still around he could probably tell you an encyclopedia worth of information on cutting grass with all types of mowers. As far as flails he was very good friends with Elmer Mott who's dad invented them. When the Interstator came out in the early 70's my dad set a world sales record and sold almost half of the first 100 Interstators made. He was directly responsible for Mott adding the 62" Super Heavy Duty model so lower HP tractors could use a heavy duty flail. A dealer in Quebec was selling Mott's mounted backwards on the front of 4 wheel vehicles they also sold. The problem was they weren't the authorized dealer for the region and were selling them at a huge discount to sell their 4 wheel truck type vehicles. Elmer Mott called the factory from my dad's office and told them not to sell anymore mowers to that dealer. Not just because they were undermining the dealer for the region but because they made his machines look bad operating backwards with the roller ahead of the rotor. We had a Ford 917 in trade and it wasn't half the machine the Mott was. Just compare the deck thickness. The Ford was sheet metal and all dented up where the Mott's were 10 gauge (1/8") steel. Our neighbor had a Ford in much better condition but we changed the knives to Mott and it worked a lot better and didn't use as much HP. An interesting thing with Mott's is you have to run at 540 RPM or the bend in the knives actually changes and the knives deform.

http://www.alamo-industrial.com/Documents/Literature/1_shd_aug_2013.pdf

That's a really cool story...

 

[80sDweeb]

If it's spinning the same direction as your tires, then I would suspect you would have to drive extremely slow to get a good cut. I don't think the flails spin fast enough to be effective that way.

Mine spin "forward-up" ... Which makes way more sense. To be honest, I didn't even know they made one that would spin "forward-down". Maybe yours has a reverse gearbox or something.

All the Mott/Alamo flails do that, they spin so that they kick the clippings over the roller and out. It's a design that's supposed to "suck" the grass up into the spinning blades. You can see the flail spinning at the end of this YouTube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGFO-JNzV90

Scott in Brighton NY

 

[80sDweeb]

All the Mott/Alamo flails do that, they spin so that they kick the clippings over the roller and out. It's a design that's supposed to "suck" the grass up into the spinning blades. You can see the flail spinning at the end of this YouTube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGFO-JNzV90

Also, the brochure linked to above shows the "forward rotation" of the Alamo flails (forward, as in your wheels rotate forward when you drive.)



Scott in Brighton NY

 

[80sDweeb]

I picked up my Alamo SHD74 flail today. Built like a tank! They loaded it for me with a forklift. Wow, did this thing look huge when I got it in the back of my van! I'm not sure yet how I want to get it out of there, so I won't be using my van this week. I think I'll use a 3 pt crane "barn pole" to lift it out (I hope it isn't too heavy, it's over 900lbs!) That won't happen until I can bring my tractor home, the seller needs it until his new one arrives from the dealer ("we're waiting on trucking," they're telling him - it was supposed to arrive last month.)

Looks like it's in pretty good shape, other than the knives look rusty - but not worn out, I don't think. But that's just at first glance, I haven't had a chance to really check it out. For $715, I'm really pleased.



My problem: will it tackle the terrain I need it to tame? I went out there yesterday, to try to find my '66 Cub Cadet that got stuck in the mud, and never moved again (wouldn't start again after a winter out there, and a tire blew.) I gave up on finding it, but decided to take these pics. They're taken at eye level, with weeds from 5 feet to maybe 9 feet tall. We're having a heat wave, too, so hot and humid, ugh. Not to mention, that when I look down, sometimes I'll find an old car part (saw a chrome headlight bezel and what might have been a wiper motor from the 1940s or so) or some rotting tree limbs, maybe a railroad tie. It is not going to be easy:







I imagine it will be SLOW going, I think the slowest my mower will go is 1.7mph with the pto running 540 in 1st gear low. I hope that's slow enough, and I have independent pto if I need to push in the clutch to let the mower digest a moment.

Kinda looking forward to this!

EDIT: Let me add that I know a rotary cutter would be the "better" tool for this job, but the worn out junk I was seeing for $500+ just made me jump at the chance when I saw the neighboring county selling this at auction. It will be ideal for maintaining this land, so if I have to get a rotary cutter to get this done, I will. I'm just going to see what the flail will do, first.

Scott in Brighton NY

 

[Arc weld]

You're sadly mistaken if you think a rotary is a better machine for that job! As long as it's just thick grass and weeds you have the best machine for the job. I think as long as you have about 50HP on the flail, it will do the job for you. You may have to do a couple passes to get right down. The City of Edmonton were one of the first to buy Mott Interstators. My dad arranged a demo at their worst field. One of the big wigs at the city was only about 5' tall and the grass was as tall as he was. They were skeptical what the flail would do. My dad had the city operator lower the side wings, engage the mowers, put the PTO at 540 and drive forward in first gear. The city had quite a few people at the demo and their jaws dropped. One pass done! The city purchased several Interstators as did several counties and many of those machines were used for 15 to 20 years. That one demo was the reason my dad sold about half of the first 100 Interstators sold. The city had no problem recommending the machines to other municipalities and counties. In fact after that demo they told my dad that he never needed to make an appointment to come and see them because they knew he wasn't coming there to waste their time. He said after the first one they were easy to sell.

 

[ovrszd]

Arc weld, I'm wondering if the biggest issue my Ford 917 has is the "rough cut" blades I'm using?? Maybe I'd have been better served buying the "fine cut", upside down Y looking blades?? I went for the rough cut thinking they would last longer hitting rocks, etc., cutting roadside banks??

Great story concerning your Dad's history. Wish he were here to join this discussion.

 

[leonz]

Hello Arcweld,

As I am coming back to this late I want to thank you for
your clarification about flail mowers once more.

Collectively all of the members of the "Flail Mower Nations"
want everyone-especially new owners to be happy with their
flail mower workhorses and the Mules that they use them with.


=============================================================================================================================================================================================

Hello Scott,

I want to welcome you as the newest member of the Flail Mower Nations
(No passport required). You need not worry about whether your new to you
flail mower workhorse can handle the job IT WILL.

Just be sure to check the V belts and if the rubber crumbles in your hand
they need to be replaced. The Kevlar V belts are the best ones for flail mowers
as they are highly resistant to shock damage due to the Kevlar threads in the V belts.

When you check the gearbox oil level it will not hurt to drain it and pour new 90 weight in
the gearbox if the old oil looks milky from moisture.

After you remove the V belt cover you need to be sure to scrape away all the rubber and grass
dust away from the side weldment to expose any hidden grease fittings and to be sure that the
snubber pulley and spring can move freely. About the snubber pulley-you may have a grease fitting on the pulley arm that needs to be greased as well.

When greasing your flail mower please do not pump anymore than 5-6 pumps of grease into each rotor bearing and no more than 5-6 pumps into the rear roller bearing.The rotor bearings have a seal on one side and you have to be careful not to pump too much grease intot he bearing as the seal will be blown out.

As Arcweld has so eleoquently stated your flail mower will be more than
adequate for your jungle. Once you have the brush taken back to the sod
you will have zero issues keeping it mowed in a very very short time each
time you mow.This aids in beating back invasives like poison ivy also.

My father used his Ford Jubilee and a seven foot JD25A Finish Flail Mower to take down 12-15 foot Goldenrod and other brush to reclaim pasture to keep it mowed down. He cleaned the chaff screen on the radiator alot but that is to be expected.

Your leaving your flail mower/workhorse in the van until you remove it with a boom pole
will not affect your permanent citizenship in the Flail Mower Nations.

If you have a long enough strap you can cradle the mower and then lift it out
of the van and set it on the ground. The straps at Tractor Supply are very
reasonably priced.

If you suspect that you have a lot of junk in the field you want to mow I would make the first pass on the edges of the field and then take half cuts to finish the work. You will be able to go over it again the same day and recut the clippings and then they will degrade to mulch and melt back into the ground. If you are sure the field is clear take a full width cut and then keep mowing and then if you have time you can go over it again or do it the next day.

Just be sure to leave the mowing height on the rear roller adjustment low-most likely it is at 2 inches of cutting height. You can always lower it in most cases.

The reason you want to leave the mowing height low is because the flail mower rotor and the flailmower shroud that covers the mower creates a pressure gradient like a vacuum cleaner to cut and lift the clippings up and over the flail mower rotor and back to the ground.

 

[leonz]

Arc weld, I'm wondering if the biggest issue my Ford 917 has is the "rough cut" blades I'm using?? Maybe I'd have been better served buying the "fine cut", upside down Y looking blades?? I went for the rough cut thinking they would last longer hitting rocks, etc., cutting roadside banks??

Great story concerning your Dad's history. Wish he were here to join this discussion.

===============================================================

Hello Ovrszd,

In order to be sure you could take advantage of the side slicers the issue is overlap of knife pairs on the mounting stations typically the flail mower rotors with scoop knives have fewer knife mounting stations whch overlap in coverage.

Each knife station will have three inches of mowing width generally with the knife pair. The heavy flail shredders are wider in cutting width generally in most cases as they use the cast and forged cup knife which can be very wide allowing them to overlap and also spiral around the flail mower rotors circumference. INO is one european brand that has this design if my memory is correct.

 

[hunt4570]

The reason you want to leave the mowing height low is because the flail mower rotor and the flailmower shroud that covers the mower creates a pressure gradient like a vacuum cleaner to cut and lift the clippings up and over the flail mower rotor and back to the ground.

WAIT.... You mean it creates a suction???

Sorry Leons, I just couldn't resist!

 

[leonz]

WAIT.... You mean it creates a suction???

Sorry Leons, I just couldn't resist!

===============================================================



WEEEELLLLLLLL,

Some days my life just sucks when it comes to flail mowers hunt 4570 :^0.

 

[Fallon]

Arc weld, I'm wondering if the biggest issue my Ford 917 has is the "rough cut" blades I'm using?? Maybe I'd have been better served buying the "fine cut", upside down Y looking blades?? I went for the rough cut thinking they would last longer hitting rocks, etc., cutting roadside banks??

Great story concerning your Dad's history. Wish he were here to join this discussion.

I can only speak to my experiences.

I paid $100 for my old beatup 7' 917 flail. I dumped about $400 into it for a new PTO shaft that was long enough, most of a new set of knives & mounting hardware, belts & some heavy sheet metal to patch the hood. It still has a huge crack in the hood where it meets the support spar between gearbox & belts & I should probably replace the bearings this winter or in a year or 2. This old beatup flail in need of repairs has caused me to park my 5' Landpride rotary cutter I bought brand new with my tractor 2 years ago. The rotary is in excelent shape, but with the flail, the cut is better & its a lot safer. Having the offset, the roller & not hanging way back means it much more manuverable & never scalps.

I pull the flail slower than the rotary cutter with my 32hp L3200 , but it's also 7' compared to 5'. All in all my mow times are equal or faster with the flail. The hood on the flail is only half the height of my field grass lots of the time, but that doesn't slow it down. I have the inverted Y side slicers & they rotate forward with the tires when going forward.

The main drawback I've run into so far is when mowing my well head in heavy grass. The rotary is right behing the tractor & has a low deck, so wouldn't be a problem. The 1.5' tall opening on the flail & offset meant It went right over the well head. Lost a handfull of knives, the mounting hardware & the well head cap.

If your hammers were backwards, I'm sure you'd have a crap cut. With the inverted Y knives, there really isn't any way to install them backwards. Worst case scenario, you have a dull edge cutting moderately well instead of a sharp edge cutting really well. If you could mount em I'd suggest trying a set of inverted Y knives, which would cost you $200-300 if I recall. My inverted Y's bounce off landscape timbers easily with no damage. Landscape timbers are chewed up a bit. The well head destroyed a handfull, but I doubt any other knive style short of a forrestry flail would have done any better.

As others have noted, it doesn't suck, it won't vacuum stuff off the ground, but it does give a good even cut. When mowing high grass I end up with tire tracks that are uncut as the tires bend the grass over & it takes hours or days to spring back up. Not an issue with greener shorter grass though, mostly a brown high grass problem.

 

[IslandTractor]

Arc weld, I'm wondering if the biggest issue my Ford 917 has is the "rough cut" blades I'm using?? Maybe I'd have been better served buying the "fine cut", upside down Y looking blades?? I went for the rough cut thinking they would last longer hitting rocks, etc., cutting roadside banks??

Great story concerning your Dad's history. Wish he were here to join this discussion.

Are you using the Flailmaster FM7 or FM7501732 blades. I had the impression you had the finer cut blades (FM7501732) as you never mentioned hangers. I also think/suspect that ArcWeld was referring to the fine cut blades when he was talking about them getting clogged up with long grass. I REALLY don't understand how the FM7 could get so clogged up in your 917 mower as that is essentially the same blade arrangement as my Caroni has and I've never seen more than an occasional blade of grass stuck to those even after mowing waist high grasses. If they did become clogged the hanger should swivel back and that should unload the grass by sliding it off.

 

[xtn]

I think we can safely conclude that ovrszd's problem is the inability to only go 1/4 a mile per hour while maintaining 540-rpm pto speed. Sometimes the density of growth you want to cut will require that.

 

[IslandTractor]

I think we can safely conclude that ovrszd's problem is the inability to only go 1/4 a mile per hour while maintaining 540-rpm pto speed. Sometimes the density of growth you want to cut will require that.

Agree that is at least part of his problem but I'd think there would be many others with similar complaints if it was just the lack of crawl speed. He has a tractor that puts out about 10 more HP than mine does and I don't need to "crawl".

 

[Arc weld]

Blades plugging was referring to one piece 1 piece Ford blades/knives. You could always put course cut Alamo Y knives on your Ford and they'd give a wider cut than the Ford knives. On a Ford you can also add more hangers but you'd have to do it evenly to keep the rotor balanced. I wouldn't recommend fine cut knives for heavy growth or where there might be obstacles. In heavy growth you should walk the field first to check for large rocks or other big obstacles that could seriously damage the mower. Flails can take some obstacles but not all obstacles. Barbed wire and baler twine/rope are a hazard as well.