Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[ovrszd]

This is my biggest disappointment with a Flail. They don't like tall grass. They prefer frequently cut grass.

 

[leonz]

if you like I can send you a video of a flailmower chopping down fully grown sunflowers.


Ino Bre?ice - Industrijska oprema Bre?ice - Kmetijska mehanizacija, kmetijski stroji in dodatki za traktorje

 

[IslandTractor]

This is my biggest disappointment with a Flail. They don't like tall grass. They prefer frequently cut grass.

I actually cut high grass almost all the time. I only mow most fields once or twice a year, typically somewhere between July 4 and mid October. I don't find there is any trouble cutting high grass unless it is very lush and dense. I'm just knocking down the weeds/grass and not too concerned generally about mulching every bit of it but the flail does a credible job, certainly a cleaner cut than my rotary provides in the same setting.

 

[Fallon]

My L3200 & old Ford 917 7' flail didn't have any problem with my pasture early this summer. Grass was almost hood height & cut well except for the tire tracks. I still need to go back & recut things. Really only need to get the tire tracks that got bent over & didn't get cut though.

The rib on the front of the flail collects debris & can probably hold a gallon or 2. It was filling up with grass seed every few minutes, which bodes well for a better pasture next year (I tilled & reseeded it a year ago to fix the overgrazing from the previous owner. Should have collected some of that seed for other parts of the property.

 

[ovrszd]

If I am to believe all you guy's claims,,, then I am have no choice but say the Ford 917 Flail is a piece of junk, even with new blades...... It certainly won't do what you guys claim. Even in low gear with the tractor. :confused3:

Here we are, full circle, back to the hype discussion.

 

[IslandTractor]

If I am to believe all you guy's claims,,, then I am have no choice but say the Ford 917 Flail is a piece of junk, even with new blades...... It certainly won't do what you guys claim. Even in low gear with the tractor. :confused3:

Here we are, full circle, back to the hype discussion.

OK, take a step back. Do you really think the entire flail industry is FOS? Do you think that highway crews prefer to use flails because they are POS????

Are the belts tight? Does it mow well in lower grass? Something is amiss here and I doubt it is the Ford 917 if properly maintained and operated.

 

[whirly]

"Happiness isn't having everything you want, it's wanting everything you have."

You evidently can't find a reason to want what you have.

 

[TSO]

I really like my flail... Does a nice job.

Is it a zero turn mower? Nope, but then again, my ZTR can't really handle grass over 12" high without bogging down and leaving tons of clippings.

Is it a Brush-Hog? Nope, but then again, I've never had a b'hog mulch clippings this well, or leave such a nice finish with tall stuff.

Each piece excels in a certain way. In my experience, I'd choose:

ZTR: grass/weeds under 10".
Brush-Hog: thick brush, and rough terrain.
Flail: everywhere else.

Here's mine... This grass wasn't real tall, 8-12" https://youtu.be/hwfa_8uGG_A

 

[leonz]

If I am to believe all you guy's claims,,, then I am have no choice but say the Ford 917 Flail is a piece of junk, even with new blades...... It certainly won't do what you guys claim. Even in low gear with the tractor. :confused3:

Here we are, full circle, back to the hype discussion.

==============================================================================


Hello Richard,

As Island Tractor has said lets step back a bit.

Assuming that your mule has had "no issues with the Rear PTO" and only assuming that:

Are you operating the mules engine at the recommended speed for 540 RPM PTO speed??

Part of me wants you to look at the PTO shaft yokes and the other part
of me says you may have a V belt that is slipping or needs replacement.

Part of me also wonders if the tensioning spring is in the right hole to
hold the snubber pulley taunt against the flat side of the belt.


I dont remember if your mower has two belts or just one; if it has a pair of belts the belts
need to come from the same manufacturing lot number to be of benefit as one belt may
be doing the work of two.


1.The V belt or belts on any flail mower should have a deflection of no more than an 1/8 of an inch.

2. the spring tensioner if used for V belt tension with a flat snubber pulley must be able to move freely
after its greased. You may have snubber pulley that is bad and binding.

IS the rotor free of debris around the bearing housings?

We only want you to have forever mower that works and works well Richard as it sounds like a minor
issue of power delivery to the flail mowers rotor.

Take the V belt cover off and start there and if you have rubber flaking off in your hands you
know the belts not long for this word if not work your way froward through the drive train from
the snubber pulley to the yoke closest to the stub shaft on the tractor.

NOW the issue about the snubber pulley; the travel of the snubber pulley is done in a small arc when the V belt is tensioned
with the spring. the spring should have very little stretch on it to maintain the tension of the snubber pulley if it feels loose its mounted wrong.
I dont remember if the 907 has a bolt with a lock nut to hold it in place to hold one end of the spring(mine does)so its worth checking.

It has to be something simple richard as my dad used his ford jubilee to knock down 12-15 foot goldenrod with a 7 foot
JD25A finish flail mower and had zero issues with it the entire time he owned it(except for positive ground issues on the Ford Jubilee).
He used his first towed flail mower to cut my mother a jogging path through the same brush using an 3 foot flail mower with a flywheel slip clutch lawn Genie which I bought and used as well for my place until I traded in on a new lawn tractor-makes me wish I had not done it now even though I have its bigger brother in the stable.

 

[ovrszd]

OK, take a step back. Do you really think the entire flail industry is FOS? Do you think that highway crews prefer to use flails because they are POS????

Are the belts tight? Does it mow well in lower grass? Something is amiss here and I doubt it is the Ford 917 if properly maintained and operated.

Nope not at all. As I've said many times in these discussions, I think there is a lot of differences in what's being cut. So, if we can agree on that, then we should be able to agree that under certain circumstances a Flail is not going to be as successful in what it cuts. Also take into account there are a large variety of Flail Cutters, just like Rotary Mowers. Some work better than others. I don't see the Ford 917 as a "heavy duty" cutter that is designed to cut heavy brush or heavy, tall grass. Lastly, I guess you'll just have to trust that I can properly setup and operate equipment.

 

[ovrszd]

OK, take a step back. Do you really think the entire flail industry is FOS? Do you think that highway crews prefer to use flails because they are POS????

Are the belts tight? Does it mow well in lower grass? Something is amiss here and I doubt it is the Ford 917 if properly maintained and operated.

Nope not at all. As I've said many times in these discussions, I think there is a lot of differences in what's being cut. So, if we can agree on that, then we should be able to agree that under certain circumstances a Flail is not going to be as successful in what it cuts. Also take into account there are a large variety of Flail Cutters, just like Rotary Mowers. Some work better than others. I don't see the Ford 917 as a "heavy duty" cutter that is designed to cut heavy brush or heavy, tall grass. Lastly, I guess you'll just have to trust that I can properly setup and operate equipment.

 

[ovrszd]

You evidently can't find a reason to want what you have.

Another personal comment that has no merit.

I think it most disturbs you that I might not want what you have.

 

[ovrszd]

==============================================================================


Hello Richard,

As Island Tractor has said lets step back a bit.

Assuming that your mule has had "no issues with the Rear PTO" and only assuming that:

Are you operating the mules engine at the recommended speed for 540 RPM PTO speed??

Part of me wants you to look at the PTO shaft yokes and the other part
of me says you may have a V belt that is slipping or needs replacement.

Part of me also wonders if the tensioning spring is in the right hole to
hold the snubber pulley taunt against the flat side of the belt.


I dont remember if your mower has two belts or just one; if it has a pair of belts the belts
need to come from the same manufacturing lot number to be of benefit as one belt may
be doing the work of two.


1.The V belt or belts on any flail mower should have a deflection of no more than an 1/8 of an inch.

2. the spring tensioner if used for V belt tension with a flat snubber pulley must be able to move freely
after its greased. You may have snubber pulley that is bad and binding.

IS the rotor free of debris around the bearing housings?

We only want you to have forever mower that works and works well Richard as it sounds like a minor
issue of power delivery to the flail mowers rotor.

Take the V belt cover off and start there and if you have rubber flaking off in your hands you
know the belts not long for this word if not work your way froward through the drive train from
the snubber pulley to the yoke closest to the stub shaft on the tractor.

NOW the issue about the snubber pulley; the travel of the snubber pulley is done in a small arc when the V belt is tensioned
with the spring. the spring should have very little stretch on it to maintain the tension of the snubber pulley if it feels loose its mounted wrong.
I dont remember if the 907 has a bolt with a lock nut to hold it in place to hold one end of the spring(mine does)so its worth checking.

It has to be something simple richard as my dad used his ford jubilee to knock down 12-15 foot goldenrod with a 7 foot
JD25A finish flail mower and had zero issues with it the entire time he owned it(except for positive ground issues on the Ford Jubilee).
He used his first towed flail mower to cut my mother a jogging path through the same brush using an 3 foot flail mower with a flywheel slip clutch lawn Genie which I bought and used as well for my place until I traded in on a new lawn tractor-makes me wish I had not done it now even though I have its bigger brother in the stable.

I appreciate your assistance.

All bearings and moving parts are in excellent condition.

Belt is a double belt. It is definitely not slipping. I know this by running the cutter for a few minutes in heavy conditions and then feeling the belt for heat. Very simple test that clarifies that all parts of the belt tightening system are working as intended.

Running new rough cut blades purchased from Flailmaster.

In my terrain, this is a smooth cutting mower that leaves a nice cut when used in 8-10" grass or shorter.

It will not perform as claimed in these threads on anything much taller in Missouri grass. I've not tried to cut tall weeds or brush with it. I use a rotary mower for that.

As TSO and others have stated, they have their place. I only object to profoundly successful claims under conditions that my Flail simply won't duplicate.

 

[xtn]

Assuming everything is functioning as designed and setup flaws are not compromising performance, then yes, it's a pretty simple equation. A given flail mower behind a given tractor will do well at a given speed through a given difficulty of growth.

Assuming we're all using one flail behind one tractor, then of course the variables are the speed and the difficulty of growth to be cut. There will be some stuff through which you just have to only go 0.1-mph. But *** long as you aren't trying to mow 2" trunks or the like that really require a heavy duty brush hog, if you slow down enough for the growth density, it ought to come out the back side mowed. The only exception I can think of is if really tall stuff is getting bent over so low as to pass completely beneath the knives.

I'm guessing that those who are using a geared tractor without an independent PTO will be unable to go 0.1-mph while maintaining recommended PTO speed?

 

[ovrszd]

Assuming everything is functioning as designed and setup flaws are not compromising performance, then yes, it's a pretty simple equation. A given flail mower behind a given tractor will do well at a given speed through a given difficulty of growth.

Assuming we're all using one flail behind one tractor, then of course the variables are the speed and the difficulty of growth to be cut. There will be some stuff through which you just have to only go 0.1-mph. But *** long as you aren't trying to mow 2" trunks or the like that really require a heavy duty brush hog, if you slow down enough for the growth density, it ought to come out the back side mowed. The only exception I can think of is if really tall stuff is getting bent over so low as to pass completely beneath the knives.

I'm guessing that those who are using a geared tractor without an independent PTO will be unable to go 0.1-mph while maintaining recommended PTO speed?

Well stated. Matches my points exactly.

I am using a gear tractor and am limited by 1st gear travel speed. In watching most of the videos, it appears the travel speed used when demonstrating the ability to cut tall or thick growth is less than my 1st gear speed. I totally understand that.

In reality I believe I understand the capabilities of the Ford 917 Flail very well. It has it's place and reason for being used. On the other hand, it doesn't walk on water.

 

[hunt4570]

Well stated. Matches my points exactly.

I am using a gear tractor and am limited by 1st gear travel speed. In watching most of the videos, it appears the travel speed used when demonstrating the ability to cut tall or thick growth is less than my 1st gear speed. I totally understand that.

In reality I believe I understand the capabilities of the Ford 917 Flail very well. It has it's place and reason for being used. On the other hand, it doesn't walk on water.

Well then, don't use it to mow your ponds!:laughing:

 

[IslandTractor]

. In reality I believe I understand the capabilities of the Ford 917 Flail very well. It has it's place and reason for being used. On the other hand, it doesn't walk on water.

If your flail can't walk on water then pretty clearly you haven't adjusted the belts properly.

 

[leonz]

Well stated. Matches my points exactly.

I am using a gear tractor and am limited by 1st gear travel speed. In watching most of the videos, it appears the travel speed used when demonstrating the ability to cut tall or thick growth is less than my 1st gear speed. I totally understand that.

In reality I believe I understand the capabilities of the Ford 917 Flail very well. It has it's place and reason for being used. On the other hand, it doesn't walk on water.

====================================================================

PLease refresh my short term memory Richard.
When you said rough cut flail mower blades that stopped me-Are you using the scoop knives?????

if the belt has only an 1/8 of an inch of travel its properly tensioned.

I still need you to have someone watch the belt drive with the V belt guard off the mower while it is mowing.

Its not possible that the engine air filter/safety filter element or the engines combustion air intake hose has collapsed?????


Forgive me for asking this, but; are you using a PTO shaft with a friction slip clutch? IF not, you need to raise the mowers cutting height using the rear roller adjustment-only after you have someone watch the V belt drive while mowing at your current mowing height an travel spee AS LONG AS the engine speed is at the 540RPM for the rear power take off while working.

Does your mule have three different rear PTO speeds?????????????????????????

The "Good" gear drive Kubota mules imported in the early 80's had three PTO speeds if I remember right.


you may need to mow in reverse if the brush is really full of vines then mow in forward.

Something is out of whack here.

 

[ovrszd]

====================================================================

PLease refresh my short term memory Richard.
When you said rough cut flail mower blades that stopped me-Are you using the scoop knives?????

if the belt has only an 1/8 of an inch of travel its properly tensioned.

I still need you to have someone watch the belt drive with the V belt guard off the mower while it is mowing.

Its not possible that the engine air filter/safety filter element or the engines combustion air intake hose has collapsed?????


Forgive me for asking this, but; are you using a PTO shaft with a friction slip clutch? IF not, you need to raise the mowers cutting height using the rear roller adjustment-only after you have someone watch the V belt drive while mowing at your current mowing height an travel spee AS LONG AS the engine speed is at the 540RPM for the rear power take off while working.

Does your mule have three different rear PTO speeds?????????????????????????

The "Good" gear drive Kubota mules imported in the early 80's had three PTO speeds if I remember right.


you may need to mow in reverse if the brush is really full of vines then mow in forward.

Something is out of whack here.

I'll start with you leonz, simply because you totally lost me.

I'm using the "rough cut" blades from Flailmaster. They look like a Whale Tail to me.

No need to watch the belt. It's not getting hot. If it's slipping, it would get extremely hot.

My tractor's air filter system is fine.

No friction clutch in the PTO system. The rear roller is in it's highest position. I also extend the top link until the cutter rides in a horizontal position.

My "mule" (Ford tractor 3910) has one PTO speed. Which by the way works great when powering a 6' brush cutter and a 5' KK rototiller.

I'm not going to mow in reverse over a mile of roadside banks so I can then mow them in forward.

I tried really hard to control my sarcasm here leonz. But I'm getting close to the end.

 

[ovrszd]

If your flail can't walk on water then pretty clearly you haven't adjusted the belts properly.

I'll address your comment second simply because it still indicates I don't know "squat" about equipment. My belts are not slipping, they don't get hot. If you can demonstrate to me a belt slipping situation where they don't get hot, I'll oblige you by listening.