Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[IslandTractor]

If you have 70 inches outside to outside then when the mower is rigged for offset, it will not cut all the way on the left tire track. I haven't measured my outside to outside recently but somehow remember more like 66" or so on a Kioti DK40. My memory may be wrong but I suspect a Kubota 3540 would have no wider a stance than the larger Kioti. It has been a few months since I last mowed but I recall that I can run my left tires just at the outside edge of uncut grass (i.e. running on the previously cut grass right at the border) and achieve maximum cut width with the mower offset.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I have the Value Leader, 68", and I haven't had the same experience.

The fit and finish reminds me of something you'd buy at Harbor Freight. Runs in the powder coat, cardboard stuck to a couple pieces from being sprayed sitting on the cardboard, some ugly welds and rough edges, etc.

The paint on mine is fine. I suspect with Chinese imports the importer is shopping at several different manufacturers so the quality isn't consistent.

The collars on the ends of the PTO shaft were incredibly brittle plastic. So those disintegrated as soon as I ran it. The PTO shaft it comes with is incredibly heavy/awkward.

Not my experience

It comes with pins for the 3PH and the lynch pins that it comes with are garbage. They just fall out. I bought a bag from TSC and replaced them for a couple bucks.

I did have this problem. Even the replacement pins fall out all the time. I don't know why. Now I just keep a bag of zip ties in the shed and tie them in.

Overall, it cuts pretty well. It will cut grass and it looks like lawn. It's not as nice as a good lawn mower but it's passable. It doesn't have updraft like a high quality lawnmower so the cut isn't as good. It will cut tall grass that a rotary lawn mower will clog on. However, there is a limit, once the grass gets to be a foot or more it starts to choke and get grass wrapped around the shaft. This is particularly true with grass being cut for the first time this year. A rotary rough mower will handle that grass with no problem, and if I do that first and wait a few days for the cuttings to dry I can follow with the flail and get a nice cut.

It mulches everything down fine, finer than a mulching lawnmower. When the grass is high it creates a thick layer of mulch over the grass, which turns brown and looks unsightly. Eventually it goes away.

I find the height adjustment unwieldy. There are skids on the side that are adjustable in height, I find they just dig up the grass so I put them up all the way and have it ride solely on the rear roller. Adjusting the rear roller is a pain because it involves a lot of bolts and nuts. It's easier just to adjust the height by using the top link to adjust the angle. Since the roller is behind the blade tilting the mower forward lowers the blade and tilting it back raises it. However, the PTO shaft can't stand a lot of angle, if you tilt it too much the shear bolt breaks. There is one spot in one of my fields where there's a dip, and every time I go over it I break a shear bolt.

It can't cut super close, about 3-4" is probably the limit. Any lower and the skids start digging in.

The mower doesn't like to go backwards, the corners tend to catch and dig up the ground. So I raise it if I need to back up. However, I have to remember to disengage the PTO or I'll break the shear bolt.

It is somewhat fragile. I broke a bearing in the rear roller when I rode over a stump that was hidden in tall grass. I often break blades when I run over rocks. A rough mower would handle these with no problem. I haven't had any trouble getting repair parts.

I don't really use it on brush, but that mainly because I have a lot of rocks and anywhere there's brush there's bound to be rocks. It actually seems to do better on leafy stuff than grass.

Overall I'd probably rate it 3 out of 5 stars. A lot of little annoyances but it does what it's meant to do, I've cut a lot of grass with mine. With 68 inches you can cut a lot of grass in a little time. I have a lot of hayfields and I like to cut walking trails in them, it's great for that. It certainly isn't a "universal mower." I also have a rider mower, rough mower, hay mower, push mower and a couple of weed whackers. Each has its use, none of them do everything.

 

[hunt4570]

Thanks for the report..

 

[hunt4570]

If you have 70 inches outside to outside then when the mower is rigged for offset.

You say when the mower is rigged for offset... can it be rigged for no offset?

 

[IslandTractor]

You say when the mower is rigged for offset... can it be rigged for no offset?

Yes, it can be set "midline". There are two positions, midline and offset. The standard mount takes about ten or fifteen minutes to change from midline to offset. Just a matter of pulling some clevis pins, moving the 3PT 'bridge' and then reattaching the PTO shaft. There is also an optional hydraulic kit that allows you to move it back and forth or choose intermediate settings on the fly. The PTO shaft is actually in a more neutral position when the mower is offset but works fine when set for midline. "Midline" is a bit of a misnomer as the mower is still somewhat offset to the right when in the midline mount position.

 

[IslandTractor]

I don't seem to have any good photos of the Caroni loaded into my TBN account but these show the basic set up. Note in the first photo that there is an additional set of mounting points for the 3PT topping lift bridge at the base of the mower deck. It is held in place by a total of eight bolts (four on each side). The mounts for the lower 3PT arms are held in place by cotter pins so really not difficult to move. For practical purposes it is necessary to dismount the mower in order to make the shift.

Last photo just shows the mower in midline position on a DK40 with R4 tires set at widest stance. Mower blades on left cut just under where the tire has been while on the right side there is about a 12" or 15" offset.

 

[hunt4570]

So you have had this mower since 2008? holding up ok? I'm just about ready... any discount coupons for agrisupply out there anywhere? As it is $1909 and $179 shipping...

 

[IslandTractor]

So you have had this mower since 2008? holding up ok? I'm just about ready... any discount coupons for agrisupply out there anywhere? As it is $1909 and $179 shipping...

Yes, I've had it since Sept 2007 and use it seasonally for both "pasture" mowing and brush clearing. The flail itself has had zero problems. The stock drive belts don't last long but kevlar replacements from Bates seem to last at least three or four seasons for me. The gearbox is notorious for burping oil and making a mess but it doesn't affect function. There is a simple metric extension that pretty much fixes that issue too and you can search on that in this thread.

The only real issue I have had is that the stock Caroni clevises wear out pretty quickly and when they break you lose two knives as well as the clevis. For practical purposes, if you use Agrisupply sourced Caroni replacements, it costs about $20 each time that happens. Recently I have switched to Flailmaster supplies although the closest clevis they sell (much heavier duty) requires a bit of grinding and bending to fit properly. I think there are several posts discuss this over the past year or two you might want to look up. You'll need to have some spares in any case but if I were buying the Caroni mower again (I would), I would take off all the stock clevises before using them (sell them to guys who like them here, $5 each would be a good discount for them). I'd simply spend an afternoon grinding and compressing the ears of the 28 Flailmaster clevises and then mow. Easiest way to compress the Flailmaster clevis ears is in a good sized bench vise, just crank it down to narrower than needed (it will spring back a bit). I forget the measurements but I made myself a little jig so I know how much to grind and how much to bend each one. While I would buy extra knives from Flailmaster, the original Caroni knives are fine so I'd just reuse them. Alternatively, just buy a big bag of 60 or so knives from Flailmaster and sell the original Caroni knives along with the clevises as sets. That would more than pay for the Flailmaster replacements.

I don't know of any AgriSupply coupons and have never seen a sale on the Caroni mower. The price has been relatively stable. I think I paid something like $1700 plus shipping in 2007.

 

[Thomabear]

Yea Hunt you might want to buy a couple of those Kubotas to keep up with that Caroni. Either that or you can get a Massey and get a spare Caroni.

 

[rgr33]

I buy old 3point implements to refurbish and sell. Flail mowers are my favorite project. Based on what I have experienced in my shop I would give this general review.

Value Leader- 2 stars- I agree with the previous poster who compared them with Harbor Freight tools. A good choice if money is a major factor, or you don't need to use it much. Be prepared to do some minor repairs now and then, especially belt replacements. Betsy Equipment is very good in stocking and shipping parts, no worries there.

Caroni-3 stars- best overall bang for the buck. Well made, easy to get parts locally, very dependable. A bargain price wise. I don' see many of these because people want to hold on to them.

Alamo/Mott Vrissmo/ Rears 4 stars - Battle tested over the years, bugs long since worked out. These are for the users who really use their equipment hard and for those that don't like to fuss with repairs. With even a little maintenance over the year, these mowers will last for decades. Yes, if you refuse to pick up a grease gun, you will ruin the bearings, but most on this board are better than that. I make my money off the ones who aren't so smart. Parts easy to get locally, price is higher, but money well spent.

 

[IslandTractor]

Here are some photos of 1) part of my broken Caroni clevis collection, 2) better Flailmaster clevis (stock and modified) and 3) Flailmaster clevis after grinding to fit

 

[hunt4570]

Yea Hunt you might want to buy a couple of those Kubotas to keep up with that Caroni. Either that or you can get a Massey and get a spare Caroni. ��

A Massey??? Ewwww.. I like real tractors!:laughing:

Jeeze... whats with people dinging my Kubota?? GREAT TRACTORS!!

 

[hunt4570]

So whats the opinion..New caroni @ $2000, Alamo rusty but not bad at $1200, or and amco mott at $750. dont know much about the mott.. all about the same size..

 

[IslandTractor]

So whats the opinion..New caroni @ $2000, Alamo rusty but not bad at $1200, or and amco mott at $750. dont know much about the mott.. all about the same size..

How handy are you??? The older US flails can be rebuilt but don't expect to get the parts or know how from Home Depot.

 

[hunt4570]

How handy are you??? The older US flails can be rebuilt but don't expect to get the parts or know how from Home Depot.

Pretty handy actually. But is, for instance, the Alamo a better machine? If not, I'd probably rather get the new Caroni, but if it is truly a better machine, then it may be a better thing to get my hands dirty..

 

[IslandTractor]

Alamo/Mott/Verismo/etc are all heavier duty machines. The Caroni is a medium duty mower. To me it is the equivalent of a Woods or Bush Hog standard duty mower while the Alamo etc are more like their medium/heavy duty mowers like a BrushBull etc. Not a knock on the Caroni at all, but there is a reason that the crews that mow highway medians choose the heavy duty US made mowers. Those are certainly overkill for the typical private user but if a good one can be had used for a bargain and you feel you can refurbish it, the Alamos etc can be great values. Bearings and knives etc are trivial fixes. Just make sure the rotor and deck and roller are in good shape.

 

[whirly]

So whats the opinion..New caroni @ $2000, Alamo rusty but not bad at $1200, or and amco mott at $750. dont know much about the mott.. all about the same size..

I have had an original Mott 72 for 3 years. I don't use it much now but when I bought this place (10Ac) it had guinea grass and Hilo grass taller than me (6'). It took a couple of passes to knock it all down with the used blades that came with it. I "found" lava rocks, stumps, saplings, old fence wire and fence posts imbedded in the ground and smoked a couple of belts but the old Mott just kept on going. I've since replaced all 184 blades, the 2 belts mentioned and re-welded a couple of blade posts but that's the extent of the maintenance.

When I got it I greased all of the fittings and made sure the gearbox had good oil. Now i just use it if the rain keeps me from mowing for more than a couple of weeks, maybe 3 or 4 times a year. The grass here grows about 3-4 inches a week and my zero turn just bogs down in the high grass.

It's heavy coming in @ 930# and built like a brick crapper. Flailmaster has all of the parts I've needed and more so I don't worry about it ever, at least in my lifetime, becoming a hangar queen. The upside is I can sell it here for more than I have into it now - including shipping from the mainland, a new PTO shaft and new blades - $1,100. Needless to say I'm certain I made the right choice for the work needed. YMMV

 

[sodamo]

I'm another happy owner of a 68in Value Leader, had it 5 years. I'd caution that you also compare apples to apples. My VL is 780 pounds and 1/4" steel. I think the Caroni is significantly (more than 100 pounds) lighter and when I was comparing, I assumed that likely meant less steel.

I'm on my 3rd set of cutters having gone thru the original set of hammers and 1 set of Y blades, this set is hammers again. As mentioned several times here on TBN, I probably should be considered more an abuser than user of this piece of equipment.

As for fit and finish, I'd call it equal to any of my other pieces when new, maybe even better than 1 or 2 with age and use. My best friend had a Gearmore, about 3 years older than mine. Frequent welding and repainting made it look good when he sold it last year., but I could have bought 2 for what his cost.

While it is offset, I have mine more the mid position and it covers both tires with a little more on the right. I think my tires are maybe 60" outside to outside.

I back mow quite a bit, sometimes lifting, some times not, depending on the terrain. My property is former sugar cane / pasture, lots of unevenness and slopes. Never brought a shear bolt that way, but many by mowing rocks.

I don't particularly like the skids, like the Caroni design better. Way to easy for me to cut into the ground some times. Maybe I just cut too low. Unfortunately, I snagged a big tree root just the other day while mowing merrily along. Jolted me to a stop. May have caused a slight racking I've also snagged my share of fence posts with the offset.

My property is likely similar to Whirly as we are only a few miles apart. Add guava trees into the mix.

Haven't used my Rhino rotary cutter since getting the flail and sold the Woods Rotary.

All not peaches and cream, I did have to replace the rear roller bearings as one rusted out. Not that I've ever mowed wet or in the rain LOL.

And last week I did replace the bearing and seal on the pulley shaft from the gear box. Guess it would be embarrassing to say someone didn't check the oil. I replaced it with a sealed bearing.

Still on original belts.

While I expect to get a lot more use from it, I would not have a tear of regret if I had to replace it, especially if cost to replace was close to same..

David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

 

[hunt4570]

So I noticed (going through ebay) that the value leader unit is getting pretty close or sometimes even more than the Caroni unit...probably going to take that one off the list.

 

[hunt4570]

Alamo/Mott/Verismo/etc are all heavier duty machines. The Caroni is a medium duty mower. To me it is the equivalent of a Woods or Bush Hog standard duty mower while the Alamo etc are more like their medium/heavy duty mowers like a BrushBull etc. Not a knock on the Caroni at all, but there is a reason that the crews that mow highway medians choose the heavy duty US made mowers. Those are certainly overkill for the typical private user but if a good one can be had used for a bargain and you feel you can refurbish it, the Alamos etc can be great values. Bearings and knives etc are trivial fixes. Just make sure the rotor and deck and roller are in good shape.

So do you use yours commercially? seems from your posts you probably do, which means you put lots of hours on yours. Me... mine would most likely be used a few times a year on my own place (unless I found a mowing job or something, I'm kind of retired with some time on my hands ). My point I guess is if you use yours commercially and its held up this well, an occaisional use one might last forever..

Also your name is Island Tractor (yes I saw your location) but the two guys that posted after you were both from Hawaii.. how weird is that?