Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[leonz]

So i am in the midst of getting a new JD 4120 or 4720. I am seriously looking at the JD 25a or 390. My concern is my yard is uneven and a has a couple steep hills. I have some rougher wooded area i want to make and trails and use the flail to maintain that. I looked though this thread a bit but couldnt confirm. I need to decide first of the week to get my order in so i can get the new tractor in soon. I appriciate the help. I really like the idea of how these work just not sure it would apply to my mowing.

Josh

Hello Josh,


No need to worry about your "scruffy lawn ever" the mower(s)
will have no trouble with dealing with the work.

The more power you have the less your new mule will have to struggle and the
the more even the power delivered to the "Power Take Off" will be. AND the tractor
will never be underpowered.

A gear drive mule would be better as there is much less power lost through the drive
train due to the mechanical transmission rather than a hydrostatic tranmission.

Saying that, the 66 gross horsepower the 4720 has will be more than enough for the
task and most any other jobs.

 

[camdenlake]

Hello Josh,


No need to worry about your "sruffy lawn ever" the mower(s)
will have no trouble with dealing with the work.

The more power you have the less your new mule will have to struggle and the
the more even the power delivered to the "Power Take Off" will be. AND the tractor
will never be underpowered.

A gear drive mule would be better as there is much less power lost through the drive
train due to the mechanical transmission rather than a hydrostatic tranmission.

Saying that the 66 gross horsepower thew 4720 has will be more than enough for the
task and most any other jobs.

Thanks. I guess what i am most curious about since in cannot see one in action is how it behaves when you go over a hill while mowing it go up a sharp hill. Since it suspended by the 3pt when you go up the hill would it not want to dig in? Sorry for basic qestions hard to spend the money with out knowing how it will behave on my complicated yard. A typical mower did not work well as there are some sharp hills that also turn. I am sure the flail will do some chewing but i am ok with that for the most part as it will help get things straightend out. The JD 390 i am considering will come with thier huge smooth cut knives they are listed as hardend. Will these be ok for some light brush work? Or should i get a set of heavy duty hammer knives?


Thanks again
Josh

 

[IslandTractor]

Thanks. I guess what i am most curious about since in cannot see one in action is how it behaves when you go over a hill while mowing it go up a sharp hill. Since it suspended by the 3pt when you go up the hill would it not want to dig in? Sorry for basic qestions hard to spend the money with out knowing how it will behave on my complicated yard. A typical mower did not work well as there are some sharp hills that also turn. I am sure the flail will do some chewing but i am ok with that for the most part as it will help get things straightend out. The JD 390 i am considering will come with thier huge smooth cut knives they are listed as hardend. Will these be ok for some light brush work? Or should i get a set of heavy duty hammer knives?

Thanks again
Josh

Typically the 3PT is lowered all the way so the flail rides on its rear roller. That allows it to follow the terrain pretty closely as the rear roller is only inches from the cutting blades. A flail is better than a bush hog riding on its rear wheel and the flail scalps less.

 

[leonz]

The JD390 will be fine for what you want to do with no question.

The hardened knives will last much longer than the standard knives.

The proper set up of the mower when it is mounted every season is
the most important thing.

Once you set the cutting height by adjusting the rear rollers height, you MUST
level the mower. You do this by putting a small bubble level on the top of the
gearbox and adjusting the top link until the bubble is centered.


With heavy brush and scrub it is always advisable to back over it first with the flail mower.
and then drive over it as the suction created by the flail mower rotor and knives is huge plus
when mowing.

If you look at some of the pictures that Island Tractor has uploaded he shows how well reverse
mowing over scrub brush works in clearing and maintaining land.


You have to be sure the Mules "engine speed" is set for the 540 rpm PTO speed and no lower
when mowing to slice the material into very small clippings.

When you have the mower at the lowest setting you will be able to control the invasive brush/vines
much more effectively.



IF you have a lot of saplings hiring a dozer to break trail is more effective on the first pass
and that will reduce the chance of spearing a radiator or tearing a hose or filter off by saplings
springing back on you.

OR if a belly pan is available for your tractor that will help to protect it too.

Please let us know when you have purchased and taken delivery of the mule and mower
so I can officially as the newest member of the "Flail Mower Nation".

 

[camdenlake]

The JD390 will be fine for what you want to do with no question.

The hardened knives will last much longer than the standard knives.

The proper set up of the mower when it is mounted every season is
the most important thing.

Once you set the cutting height by adjusting the rear rollers height, you MUST
level the mower. You do this by putting a small bubble level on the top of the
gearbox and adjusting the top link until the bubble is centered.


With heavy brush and scrub it is always advisable to back over it first with the flail mower.
and then drive over it as the suction created by the flail mower rotor and knives is huge plus
when mowing.

If you look at some of the pictures that Island Tractor has uploaded he shows how well reverse
mowing over scrub brush works in clearing and maintaining land.


You have to be sure the Mules "engine speed" is set for the 540 rpm PTO speed and no lower
when mowing to slice the material into very small clippings.

When you have the mower at the lowest setting you will be able to control the invasive brush/vines
much more effectively.



IF you have a lot of saplings hiring a dozer to break trail is more effective on the first pass
and that will reduce the chance of spearing a radiator or tearing a hose or filter off by saplings
springing back on you.

OR if a belly pan is available for your tractor that will help to protect it too.

Please let us know when you have purchased and taken delivery of the mule and mower
so I can officially as the newest member of the "Flail Mower Nation".

Thansk for the help folks. Will post up some pics once its all here. So you just drop the 3pt all the way and let it float? The 390 has front skids that adjust to the same hight as the rear roller the manual says.

Josh

 

[IslandTractor]

Thansk for the help folks. Will post up some pics once its all here. So you just drop the 3pt all the way and let it float? The 390 has front skids that adjust to the same hight as the rear roller the manual says. Josh

You have the general idea. I adjust the skids so they don't hit turf on turns and set the rear roller for cut height. You can make fine adjustments to cut height with the topping lift which will pivot the mower over the rear roller. I then use the 3PT to lift over obstacles like rocks.

 

[leonz]

Thanks for the help folks.

Will post up some pics once its all here.

So you just drop the 3pt all the way and let it float?

The 390 has front skids that adjust to the same hight as the rear roller the manual says.

Josh

YES BUT; The properly adjusted top link is needed as the skids prevent the
flail mower rotor from falling forward and digging into the ground and
breaking knives and and knive mounts.


If you let them drag on the ground they will wear out much quicker and dig into the ground.


Thats why you adjust the top link to level the gearbox to keep the skids off the ground
when you first mount the flail mower to the three point hitch.

 

[camdenlake]

YES BUT; The properly adjusted top link is needed as the skids prevent the
flail mower rotor from falling forward and digging into the ground and
breaking knives and and knive mounts.


If you let them drag on the ground they will wear out much quicker and dig into the ground.


Thats why you adjust the top link to level the gearbox to keep the skids off the ground
when you first mount the flail mower to the three point hitch.

Great help i think this has me locked in on the flail. I like the idea of how durable and multi function they are. I know there will be some setup but with the help already should be no problem.


Thanks
Josh

 

[bandit67]

It'll take you a little trial and error to get the flail all set up to what works best. You can adjust the roller height, skid height, and tilt through the 3pt top link, so with all those adjustments, it could take a few tries. I set mine up on my asphalt drive to start, then fine-tuned it as I mowed the first couple times.

I live on a mountain property with slopes and flat, but mainly slopes. We grow lots of rocks here, every season, all season long, no matter if I collect every single rock in the spring and have one fairly smooth mowing. The flail has handled the property beautifully - much better than the old 3pt rotary mower did. I ran a 48" rotary on my machine because of all the trees on my property, and the 68" flail gets around the trees so much better. Plus, I like the fact that the cuttings get shredded much finer, whereas the rotary just cut down the tall grasses and left them laying all over the property.

 

[Thomabear]

As mentioned the skids are only there to prevent knife contact with the ground and should be adjusted to where they don't drag but will hit the ground before the knives do. My current mower is leveled via the roller and lower links. The upper link utilizes a 4" slot to allow the mower to pivot and negotiate uneven ground.

 

[sloooow]

My current mower is leveled via the roller and lower links. The upper link utilizes a 4" slot to allow the mower to pivot and negotiate uneven ground.

I'm curious what mower did you move to and what moved you away from your Caroni? (This lower link system seems more intuitive to me, but I fear that Caroni is the only flail that fits my budget.)

 

[IslandTractor]

I'm curious what mower did you move to and what moved you away from your Caroni? (This lower link system seems more intuitive to me, but I fear that Caroni is the only flail that fits my budget.)

The setup slooow described is the same as Caroni as best I can tell.

 

[Thomabear]

I'm curious what mower did you move to and what moved you away from your Caroni? (This lower link system seems more intuitive to me, but I fear that Caroni is the only flail that fits my budget.)

I switched to Vrisimo for a few reasons including dealer location, stocking of parts, USA made and ease of service. I will be using this mower for brush cutting, finish cutting and dethatching/over seeding. I like the ability to remove all the knives with the simple removal of rods when switching to a different task. I'm not getting any younger and I like to keep things as simple as possible. LOL

As far as Caroni I have absolutely no complaints. As mention just keep the bearings greased and keep an extra set of belts. They hold up really well. If I were you I wouldn't look back if you decide to purchase one.

 

[sloooow]

Thanks for the insight, Thomabear.

 

[GinNB]

When you get some age on a Vrisimo that rod system can turn a simple tooth change into a 2 man job. It'll help to keep it away from rocks and don't run it over a million acres though.

 

[Thomabear]

When you get some age on a Vrisimo that rod system can turn a simple tooth change into a 2 man job. It'll help to keep it away from rocks and don't run it over a million acres though.

I have 100% loam with no rocks so that shouldn't be an issue. Please do elaborate on how changing a knife would become a two man job. The design has 4 pins and 4 rods to pull which drops all knives. Each rod drops a row of knives. I'm thinking a 10-15 minute job to replace a complete set. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[IslandTractor]

I have 100% loam with no rocks so that shouldn't be an issue. Please do elaborate on how changing a knife would become a two man job. The design has 4 pins and 4 rods to pull which drops all knives. Each rod drops a row of knives. I'm thinking a 10-15 minute job to replace a complete set. Unless I'm missing something.

GinNB is the one with experience but given the mangled nature of some knife holding bolts on my Caroni, I would wonder if impact or stress caused bends in the long rod might not make it hard to remove and reinsert after a while. Just a thought.

 

[GinNB]

Try inserting a less than perfect rod into a less than perfect channel (picture a hammer and pin punch or two rods) in the cuttershaft while holding up the knife assembly. The Vrisimo design turns the cuttershaft into a spinning triangle that loves to beat on rocks. When the angle iron (creates the channel for the rod) on the shaft gets beaten in a bit the rods are hard to slide. Mine get used in what would be considered extreme conditions in a commercial operation though. When not used in a rocky environment, the rod system is a quick tool - free way to change teeth though.

 

[Thomabear]

GinNB is the one with experience but given the mangled nature of some knife holding bolts on my Caroni, I would wonder if impact or stress caused bends in the long rod might not make it hard to remove and reinsert after a while. Just a thought.

For sure no system is perfect but in this case the rod is pretty well protected by the angle iron which expands the full length of the drum. I attached a pic to illustrate the design. Not the best quality picture but you can see how the rod is protected.

Try inserting a less than perfect rod into a less than perfect channel (picture a hammer and pin punch or two rods) in the cuttershaft while holding up the knife assembly. The Vrisimo design turns the cuttershaft into a spinning triangle that loves to beat on rocks. When the angle iron (creates the channel for the rod) on the shaft gets beaten in a bit the rods are hard to slide. Mine get used in what would be considered extreme conditions in a commercial operation though. When not used in a rocky environment, the rod system is a quick tool - free way to change teeth though.

Thanks for the explanation, it makes more sense to me now. Actually, my property is clean as far as rocks go so I'm thinking this will be a non issue in my application. Just curious though, what year Vrisimo mower do you own? That angle iron seems to be pretty substantial on the new units. I'm guessing about 1/4"to 5/16" thick. I'm wondering if the drums were upgraded from the older models?

 

[GinNB]

I'm not sure what year the mowers were made. We've got three that were made into a single triple gang mower. They're identical as far as I can tell to the picture you attached. They're far from reasonably new but the angle iron IS quite substantial. Blueberry mowing around here is pretty extreme duty for a mower though. If it'll break we'll break it. I think we wore out about 7 sets of knives on three different mowers last fall. The Vrisimo heads haven't seen any action in a few years though. The whole thing is tired and needs some major TLC.