Land plain blade height help

[john40981]

Good work - I like the storage in your welder trolley too.

Are the cutting edges fixed or adjustable John?

Jimbob

Hi Jimbob, the cutting edges are 2 position adjustable. The front blade can be 3/8" (10mm) or 3/4" (20mm) below skids and the back blade 3/8" down or level with skids and are on a 20% angle left to right with 2' gap between blades. I don't have a gravel road to grade only sandy soil ( at the moment) so I hope that will work as I haven't used it yet, tomorrows job. If not I just have to drill new holes to adjust differently.
Fix up those wops from fun with the dozer

 

[jenkinsph]

John,
I like the idea of having the water tank for reducing the dust and should add that there are times when adding a little mositure will be handy too. Nice build:thumbsup:

I use my land plane primarily for lawn and pasture smoothing and maybe 5% of my work is gravel driveway work. I find that setting the blades straight and even with the skids works the best. The sheer weight of the land plane will enable it to cut enough for smoothing out a field.

Here are pictures of my larger land plane I built in 2009 and a few pics of jobs I used it on including my rear lawn. Really helps smooth up the ground.

 

[john40981]

John,
I like the idea of having the water tank for reducing the dust and should add that there are times when adding a little mositure will be handy too. Nice build:thumbsup:

I use my land plane primarily for lawn and pasture smoothing and maybe 5% of my work is gravel driveway work. I find that setting the blades straight and even with the skids works the best. The sheer weight of the land plane will enable it to cut enough for smoothing out a field.

Here are pictures of my larger land plane I built in 2009 and a few pics of jobs I used it on including my rear lawn. Really helps smooth up the ground.

I was going to put both blades level with the skids at first but most advised that some cutting was required?? Any way drilling two more holes is all that is required to make the front blade level. I am just about to take it out and use it so we'll see. I have a driveway of 1 mile and lots of tracks that need work also. It will get lots of work as the kids cut up the tracks with the motorbikes and quads, little buggers, but gives me an excuse to need these toys

 

[john40981]

just finished about 4 hours on the tractor using the land plain. Works well, I thought at 8' long I would be able to use chain top link and just let it find it own level but not the case, as the front blade digs and cuts (at 10mm down) it has a tendency to lift the back so I had to use the solid top link to keep the back down. Didn't use the extra weight of the water drum, that may help with keeping the back down if I used a chair again but I didn't need to adjust the linkage much so I think I will just leave it this way.

Did a good job, this is a small section of one of the tracks

I found that after a couple of passes cutting then a pass in reverse smooths out the soil really well.

 

[jenkinsph]

A little seat time and you will get the hang of it.:thumbsup:
I use a hydraulic top link to adjust the running angle and suggest you try to put this on your list.

 

[crazyal]

I don't know how often it rains down there but wet ground will act differently that dry. The hard dry packed ground is hard for the blade to cut so I like to grade when the ground is a little wet.

 

[john40981]

I don't know how often it rains down there but wet ground will act differently that dry. The hard dry packed ground is hard for the blade to cut so I like to grade when the ground is a little wet.

unfortunately it doesn't rain nearly enough. Australia is a very dry country and we are in the middle of a drought at the moment. Check out our dry looking photos. Our crap soil doesn't take rain well. It is bottomless after a big rain and goes to powder when regularly driven on in the dry. Makes for a very dusty job when using the land plain in the dry so I agree, it would be nice to orgainise the rain to come just at the right time and just enough to make it workable. Can you organise this for me, I would really appreciate it :laughing:

 

[PhysAssist]

Hi Thomas,
To answer your questions about my add on's, Not sure if our names may not be what you call them in the US. I have a 5' slasher (3pl PTO cuts grass) and a 5' grader blade ( 3pl back blade) listed but not a 5' slasher blade?? That would be a big *** slasher to spin a 5' blade. Jibb is just a lifting arm that attaches to the 3pl like a crane. The tree pusher, or tree spear is an heavy "A" frame that attaches to and above the dozer blade to push high on a tree to push it over. It normally has about a 3' toothed or spiked front that digs into the tree trunk so it doesn't slip off. Hope this answers your question. I do understand that this is not something that is common in the US for some reason?? I don't have a pic of my dozer with the spear attached so I have attached a pic of one I found on google to show you what I am talking about. You need a very solidly made canopy above your head to use this as large branches commonly come crashing down on top of you when you push over trees, we call them "widow makers"
View attachment 331727

Hi John,

Thanks for the kind reply, I didn't see it sooner because I was getting ready for, having, and recovering from, the surgery to put in my new knee replacement (my second for this knee d/t an infection in May).

I must have read the slasher blade entry wrong, though I gotta say, I like that term better than the one we use- bush hog, taken from one of the more popular mfgs here, or rotary mower or rfm (for finish models) is the more generic term here.

The jibb is what we call a boom pole or three point crane, and as it turns out, we found a great deal on one on our local Craig's list for about $75 (US) vs retail of approx. 200 or > this summer, when we needed it most while I was laid up and can't do any real lifting.

The tree pusher/spear was something that I had hoped might be available or modifiable for use with my tractor, but it is clear from your explanation and picture (Thanks for that too!) that not only would I need a dozer to get the requisite traction, but that you are surely correct that a really strong and comprehensive protective cage would be mandatory for use. I am not sure if they use those on dozers here, but though I'm not any kinder of dozer expert, I have to say I do keep my eyes open, and I have seen a lot of dozers pushing over a lot of trees, and have never seen anything like it. I can certainly see how it would increase the dozers already great leverage significantly, as well as getting you out from under the tree a bit.

We also call dead branches and trees hung overhead widowmakers, for the same good reason.

Thanks for taking the time to answer me, I apreciate it, and find both the commonalities and differences in words and approaches used between our two "English-speaking" countries/cultures fascinating.

I am also enjoying and taking cheat notes on your grader building process sio thanks again!
Thomas

 

[PhysAssist]

unfortunately it doesn't rain nearly enough. Australia is a very dry country and we are in the middle of a drought at the moment. Check out our dry looking photos. Our crap soil doesn't take rain well. It is bottomless after a big rain and goes to powder when regularly driven on in the dry. Makes for a very dusty job when using the land plain in the dry so I agree, it would be nice to orgainise the rain to come just at the right time and just enough to make it workable. Can you organise this for me, I would really appreciate it :laughing:

Hi again John,

It sure looks great behind your tractor, and it looks as if you'll get a lot of use out of it.

Regarding the use of hardened blades as contact material for the skids, do you think it would have been harder to bend them than it was to cut and weld them?

Also, if you had had to buy them for a nominal fee, say $50.00 per 5' section, would you still have used them as contact material?

I don't have access to free blades, so I'm trying to figure out how much difference the longer wear steel is worth there.

Thanks and G'day!
Thomas

 

[BukitCase]

Thomas, in my neck of the (overpriced steel) woods, ar400 steel is only about 15% more per pound than mild - I redid the teeth and wear strips on my Case 24" hoe bucket 4-5 years ago, bought ar400 strips (they pre-cut them, cutting is not cheap unless you have a plasma available) - and I heated and bent/welded with 7018 as I wrapped them around the bottom of the bucket -

To give you an idea of the difference, those strips (1/4" thick) had a slight amount of rough edge, probably due to old consumables on their torch - I took a brand new 9" coarse wheel on my beastly Hitachi side grinder and started to just "soften" the edges a bit, since I already knew I would likely bump into the bucket with a shoulder now and then -

I spent about a half hour on each 36" long strip, just putting the TINIEST bevel on two edges - had it been normal mild steel, with that much grinding I would have probably needed to go get more strips :confused2:

In 4-5 years of regular abuse, I've not seen noticeable wear on the strips.

Bottom line for me - not that much more expensive than mild, only gotta do it ONCE. Now that I have a plasma, I just buy a chunk of the stuff and use it til it's gone. Saves extra cut fees, much easier and cheaper than buying hardface rod or wire, and a heck of a lot faster too... Steve

 

[PhysAssist]

Thomas, in my neck of the (overpriced steel) woods, ar400 steel is only about 15% more per pound than mild - I redid the teeth and wear strips on my Case 24" hoe bucket 4-5 years ago, bought ar400 strips (they pre-cut them, cutting is not cheap unless you have a plasma available) - and I heated and bent/welded with 7018 as I wrapped them around the bottom of the bucket -

To give you an idea of the difference, those strips (1/4" thick) had a slight amount of rough edge, probably due to old consumables on their torch - I took a brand new 9" coarse wheel on my beastly Hitachi side grinder and started to just "soften" the edges a bit, since I already knew I would likely bump into the bucket with a shoulder now and then -

I spent about a half hour on each 36" long strip, just putting the TINIEST bevel on two edges - had it been normal mild steel, with that much grinding I would have probably needed to go get more strips :confused2:

In 4-5 years of regular abuse, I've not seen noticeable wear on the strips.

Bottom line for me - not that much more expensive than mild, only gotta do it ONCE. Now that I have a plasma, I just buy a chunk of the stuff and use it til it's gone. Saves extra cut fees, much easier and cheaper than buying hardface rod or wire, and a heck of a lot faster too... Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info, I knew there was a big difference in wearibility, but wasn't sure how much more it would cost me, or how much harder it would be to bend, though I had already figured out that cutting it wasn't within my current abilities as no plasma cutter seems likely to fall off a truck anywhere near me soon.

How hard would you estimate bending the last 6" of a 4-5" wide by 1/2" premade cutting blade up to about a 45 degree angle be using a MAP or PROPOXY torch to be?

Thanks,
Thomas

 

[Jeembawb]

I found this info quite helpful for helping me decide what type of road grading gear to put on my wish list - the angle tilt & pitch can be a good thing for crowning & ditching nicely. Having said that my current dragalong will not will not do the fancy angling but will do more volume of dirt. Gunna post this in a couple of places cause I think its good info.

http://roadgradingschool.com/files/ROAD_GRADING_SCHOOL.pdf

 

[john40981]

Hi again John,

It sure looks great behind your tractor, and it looks as if you'll get a lot of use out of it.

Regarding the use of hardened blades as contact material for the skids, do you think it would have been harder to bend them than it was to cut and weld them?

Also, if you had had to buy them for a nominal fee, say $50.00 per 5' section, would you still have used them as contact material?

I don't have access to free blades, so I'm trying to figure out how much difference the longer wear steel is worth there.

Thanks and G'day!
Thomas

Hi Thomas,

Hope your knee op went well. I have a guy currently doing a service and work on my dozer that is just getting over his second knee replacement. First also got infected. Good luck, hope your second goes well.
Your right with all our tracks it should get a lot of use, hopefully with out any dramas showing up my manufacturing ability.
To buy blades here the cheapest I could find was $90 for a 6' blade. I would have looked into getting something else if I had to buy them (ar400 as stated by Steve). They were not ideal as wear strips as they were wider then I needed and hard to bend (with out a press, new project comming up) but easy to cut with the oxy. I did have trouble trying to cut them with my plasma but that might have just been me though. I thought that the welded joints would not be much of a problem for wear I hope. I would diffinitely look at something that is long wearing for the skids though. I used normal mild steel for skids on my slasher when they needed replacing and they have not lasted long at all. It's a bonus sometimes when it doesn't rain much you don't have to mow much :thumbsup:
I have only had a chance to use the land plain for a few hours one morning so far and won't get to it for a few more weeks, but I will post any mods or ideas to make it work better. I was surprised that the angling back left to right by 20 degree still did not move much material along the blade, mainly just goes straight over it when it loads up. Wanting it this way to crown the road may not work as planed. Trouble there is some many variables with blade angle, pitch, tilt and depth that would all make a differance I suppose. Idealy you make one that everything adjusts but that is a huge complex job.:confused2:

 

[BukitCase]

"How hard would you estimate bending the last 6" of a 4-5" wide by 1/2" premade cutting blade up to about a 45 degree angle be using a MAP or PROPOXY torch to be?"

Thomas, I would be doubtful that anything short of acetylene and a rosebud would work on that very well - maybe get away with acetylene cutting torch (keep yer thumb off the oxy lever and keep it moving along the bend line )

The other downside of that method would be that all your hardness would probably be gone at the bend, which is likely where you'd need it most. So unless you have access to a large enough forge to reheat/quench the whole blade after bending, you might not see a lot of improvement in wear characteristics.

When I heated/bent/stitch welded the wear strips on my hoe bucket, I heated them just enough to get them to bend, had a chain wrapped around bucket and strip, used a 9200 lb rated ratchet binder on the chain, lotsa tension, bit of heat, stitch weld, repeat til done (7018; ar400 wants lo hydrogen and I didn't have MIG yet) -

Since it was recommended to preheat to 3-400 by my supplier, I figured the heat to bend could double as the preheat - musta worked, 'cause they're still there

You're right though, without a plaz and acetylene it's gonna cost you some labor - you dang sure aren't gonna cut AR plate with tin snips ... Steve

 

[PhysAssist]

Hi Thomas,

Hope your knee op went well. I have a guy currently doing a service and work on my dozer that is just getting over his second knee replacement. First also got infected. Good luck, hope your second goes well.
Your right with all our tracks it should get a lot of use, hopefully with out any dramas showing up my manufacturing ability.
To buy blades here the cheapest I could find was $90 for a 6' blade. I would have looked into getting something else if I had to buy them (ar400 as stated by Steve). They were not ideal as wear strips as they were wider then I needed and hard to bend (with out a press, new project comming up) but easy to cut with the oxy. I did have trouble trying to cut them with my plasma but that might have just been me though. I thought that the welded joints would not be much of a problem for wear I hope. I would diffinitely look at something that is long wearing for the skids though. I used normal mild steel for skids on my slasher when they needed replacing and they have not lasted long at all. It's a bonus sometimes when it doesn't rain much you don't have to mow much :thumbsup:
I have only had a chance to use the land plain for a few hours one morning so far and won't get to it for a few more weeks, but I will post any mods or ideas to make it work better. I was surprised that the angling back left to right by 20 degree still did not move much material along the blade, mainly just goes straight over it when it loads up. Wanting it this way to crown the road may not work as planed. Trouble there is some many variables with blade angle, pitch, tilt and depth that would all make a differance I suppose. Idealy you make one that everything adjusts but that is a huge complex job.:confused2:

Hi John,

So far, so good, I got my staples out today, and rehab proceeds apace. They did manage to leave some extra hardened steel in my femur in the form of a lost drill/reamer bit that looks about 5/8" diameter and about 8" long on the x-rays. Hopefully it won't be any trouble in the future, but no one knows now, except that they say removing it is too difficult and possibly hazardous to attempt at present, if ever.

Thanks for the good wishes and information, I appreciate both.

Do you think that you will have to tilt the grade vis your lower arms to get it to crown?

I'm glad it seems to work well otherwise, and wondered if given your relatively low rainfall levels annually, whether crowning was so important as opposed to levelling the whoopdedos?

Thomas

 

[PhysAssist]

"How hard would you estimate bending the last 6" of a 4-5" wide by 1/2" premade cutting blade up to about a 45 degree angle be using a MAP or PROPOXY torch to be?"

Thomas, I would be doubtful that anything short of acetylene and a rosebud would work on that very well - maybe get away with acetylene cutting torch (keep yer thumb off the oxy lever and keep it moving along the bend line )

The other downside of that method would be that all your hardness would probably be gone at the bend, which is likely where you'd need it most. So unless you have access to a large enough forge to reheat/quench the whole blade after bending, you might not see a lot of improvement in wear characteristics.

When I heated/bent/stitch welded the wear strips on my hoe bucket, I heated them just enough to get them to bend, had a chain wrapped around bucket and strip, used a 9200 lb rated ratchet binder on the chain, lotsa tension, bit of heat, stitch weld, repeat til done (7018; ar400 wants lo hydrogen and I didn't have MIG yet) -

Since it was recommended to preheat to 3-400 by my supplier, I figured the heat to bend could double as the preheat - musta worked, 'cause they're still there

You're right though, without a plaz and acetylene it's gonna cost you some labor - you dang sure aren't gonna cut AR plate with tin snips ... Steve

Hi Steve,

The problem then I guess is moot, because if I don't heat and bend them, nothing hardened will cover the front corner (i.e., just welding flat AR400 stock to the bottom of the runner), and if bending them will lose the hardness, then I guess cutting them and welding them like John did will also lose the temper.

Does that just leave welding on supplemental steel and hardfacing it?

Thomas

 

[BukitCase]

Thomas, first of all sorry about the "no extra cost options" on your surgery - I had right shoulder rotator/complete biceps re-attachment done last year, and it was just barely manageable for several months WITHOUT any extra hardware being forgotten. wouldn't wanna think about what you're putting up with; best wishes to you.

On the hardening thing, I sometimes tend to overthink things (OK, MOST of the time) - but in retrospect, I heated, bent, stitch welded my bucket wear strips and have yet to see any signs of wear on them. From that, if I weren't such a pessimist I could conclude that I'd been worried over nothing :shocked: Not that I'd ever admit to it in public ... Steve

 

[john40981]

Hi Steve,

The problem then I guess is moot, because if I don't heat and bend them, nothing hardened will cover the front corner (i.e., just welding flat AR400 stock to the bottom of the runner), and if bending them will lose the hardness, then I guess cutting them and welding them like John did will also lose the temper.

Does that just leave welding on supplemental steel and hardfacing it?

Thomas

Hi Thomas,

I can't believe they left a drill bit in you leg. Hope they didn't charge you extra for taking their tool.:laughing: speaking of tools how did they not know that was still there?. Does your leg rattle when you walk, how you going to explain that at the airport when you set off the metal detector?? Joking aside, I hope it gives you no future problem. Might be a good conversation starter though.
With regard to the runner corners, I only welded them at the back of the angle not at the front hoping that there was not enough heat to take out the temper at the front wear area. There is a small gap in the front of the joint but it is still mainly covered by the hardened steel blade section. I hope that plan works long term, I don't think I am likely to wear it out enough to worry to much about the issue.

 

[PhysAssist]

Thomas, first of all sorry about the "no extra cost options" on your surgery - I had right shoulder rotator/complete biceps re-attachment done last year, and it was just barely manageable for several months WITHOUT any extra hardware being forgotten. wouldn't wanna think about what you're putting up with; best wishes to you.

On the hardening thing, I sometimes tend to overthink things (OK, MOST of the time) - but in retrospect, I heated, bent, stitch welded my bucket wear strips and have yet to see any signs of wear on them. From that, if I weren't such a pessimist I could conclude that I'd been worried over nothing :shocked: Not that I'd ever admit to it in public ... Steve

Hi Steve,

Thanks, but it really is only causing me a bit of having to think about what to do next. It doesn't hurt or anything, but I need to sit down with some folks from the hospital to discuss the risk of infection and whether it should get pulled out sooner or later. The perforation has me limited in how much weight I can put on the leg fpr about 6 weeks, but after that it shouldn't be any issue.

I would rather overthink (and overbuild) rather than the alternatives, but especially in the design/planning stages, there is no thought I won't entertain to try and see what I can afford and what could make it better. It's not about money til you actually start to buy materials.

 

[PhysAssist]

Hi Thomas,

I can't believe they left a drill bit in you leg. Hope they didn't charge you extra for taking their tool.:laughing: speaking of tools how did they not know that was still there?. Does your leg rattle when you walk, how you going to explain that at the airport when you set off the metal detector?? Joking aside, I hope it gives you no future problem. Might be a good conversation starter though.
With regard to the runner corners, I only welded them at the back of the angle not at the front hoping that there was not enough heat to take out the temper at the front wear area. There is a small gap in the front of the joint but it is still mainly covered by the hardened steel blade section. I hope that plan works long term, I don't think I am likely to wear it out enough to worry to much about the issue.

Hi Johm,

Imagine how I felt! The issue was that it somehow detached from the extension bit that they must have had it attached to to get it up that far, and then they tried numerous methods but were unable to retreive it. Also, it isn't clear to me what they were doing that far up anywhere, unless the bit got pushed further in while they were trying to remove it. I have to go in sometime soon and, meet with my surgeon and the hospital to figure what the risks/benefit ratio of leaving it vs. removing comes down to, and then who is going toay for whatever intervention is necessary (not me I know that). I haven't seen the bill yet, but the bit better not be on there! No rattling yet, but there is a clunk when I bend and straighten my knee.

As with my parallel conversation with Steve, I hadn't considered usong hardened blade steel for the runners, but it seems such an obvious thing (now that you made it so) and I know that others have had wear issues on their runners, so if I can get some cheapish, it would maybe be a good hedge against wear.

Thanks again, and sorry for any thread-jacking I may have performed.

Thomas