Kioti resale

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red">
Blue book - what a joke. . . </font>

What else would you use to get a national average? I'd suggest there is no other source than the blue book. I am not picking on any brand here, or suggesting one has higher resale than another, or one has higher trade-in than other. I'm just asking a question.

I'd also suggest that the numbers published are nothing more than a range and I'd totally agree that the condition dictates a lot of the value. But realize a couple things, the blue book for compact equipment gives a "trade in value, low and high" so what it is worth on trade in is NOT what it is worth at auction where it is being retailed. There is a big difference between "trade in" and "retail" and the Blue Books I have seen give "trade in" values.

So for those of you who don't believe in either Ebay or Blue Book, then I have one quesiton for you: What do you suggest be used to provide national average ranges?

It is easy to criticize . . . but how about some suggestions on a legitimate way to come up with values?



<font color="red">
I hope this isn't another threrad headed for the dumper....... </font>

If it does go into the dumper it is because Neil is getting attacked, he didn't do anything other than state he is working off of the Blue Book values and all I see after that is criticizm, but no suggestions on alternatives. Bluechip and Gamble77 are both dealers, do they use Blue Book to give indications of anything? DonnyJ has Blue Book information as well and stated he would like to see Neil's information (and I suspect he will keep Neil honest at the same time).




So here is my CONSTRUCTIVE suggestion: Use the Blue Book values. Pick tractors that are roughly 4 to 6 years old, but still are currently in production, and post the "LOW" trade in value, and post the the % below Original MSRP the tractor is worth.

Why pick the LOW trade in value? Simple, we know it is not going to be any lower than that! So if ALL brands are compared at their LOW trade in value, then we have a simple reference point that we can all agree on as being low. Sort of like using the 'pivot points' to measure a FEL /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

But at least it gives us a reference we can start from. We all know that a polished tractor is worth more than one covered with rust. But at least we'd have some indication of what the 'industry' thinks the tractors are worth (and that may be different than what consumer think?).

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red">
Blue book - what a joke. . . </font>

What else would you use to get a national average? I'd suggest there is no other source than the blue book. I am not picking on any brand here, or suggesting one has higher resale than another, or one has higher trade-in than other. I'm just asking a question.

I'd also suggest that the numbers published are nothing more than a range and I'd totally agree that the condition dictates a lot of the value. But realize a couple things, the blue book for compact equipment gives a "trade in value, low and high" so what it is worth on trade in is NOT what it is worth at auction where it is being retailed. There is a big difference between "trade in" and "retail" and the Blue Books I have seen give "trade in" values.

So for those of you who don't believe in either Ebay or Blue Book, then I have one quesiton for you: What do you suggest be used to provide national average ranges?

It is easy to criticize . . . but how about some suggestions on a legitimate way to come up with values?



<font color="red">
I hope this isn't another threrad headed for the dumper....... </font>

If it does go into the dumper it is because Neil is getting attacked, he didn't do anything other than state he is working off of the Blue Book values and all I see after that is criticizm, but no suggestions on alternatives. Bluechip and Gamble77 are both dealers, do they use Blue Book to give indications of anything? DonnyJ has Blue Book information as well and stated he would like to see Neil's information (and I suspect he will keep Neil honest at the same time).




So here is my CONSTRUCTIVE suggestion: Use the Blue Book values. Pick tractors that are roughly 4 to 6 years old, but still are currently in production, and post the "LOW" trade in value, and post the the % below Original MSRP the tractor is worth.

Why pick the LOW trade in value? Simple, we know it is not going to be any lower than that! So if ALL brands are compared at their LOW trade in value, then we have a simple reference point that we can all agree on as being low. Sort of like using the 'pivot points' to measure a FEL /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

But at least it gives us a reference we can start from. We all know that a polished tractor is worth more than one covered with rust. But at least we'd have some indication of what the 'industry' thinks the tractors are worth (and that may be different than what consumer think?).

 

[Donnyj]

Another thing to remember is alot of times the "value" of something, be it a tractor or automobile, really depends on what the public wants and how much they are willing to pay. I have seen many times during appraisals the managers throw the book away. What is selling now and how available is it are very big factors that must go into values. I have read before on here where Dargo and yourself have been offered or sold your tractors for more or close to what you paid. I'm sure not all models hold value well. This does not mean the tractor is something to stay away from. It could mean that "most" people simply don't want that particular model. Such as a plain gear drive tractor. Personally if it gets the job done that each individual needs for there particular application, then that is where the true "value" lies. Just my opinion.


For the record though, I'm not trying to keep Neil "honest". I really don't have that much time on my hands. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just curious how much difference there is between different appraisal sources from different dealers of other brands.

 

[Donnyj]

Another thing to remember is alot of times the "value" of something, be it a tractor or automobile, really depends on what the public wants and how much they are willing to pay. I have seen many times during appraisals the managers throw the book away. What is selling now and how available is it are very big factors that must go into values. I have read before on here where Dargo and yourself have been offered or sold your tractors for more or close to what you paid. I'm sure not all models hold value well. This does not mean the tractor is something to stay away from. It could mean that "most" people simply don't want that particular model. Such as a plain gear drive tractor. Personally if it gets the job done that each individual needs for there particular application, then that is where the true "value" lies. Just my opinion.


For the record though, I'm not trying to keep Neil "honest". I really don't have that much time on my hands. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just curious how much difference there is between different appraisal sources from different dealers of other brands.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Donny I'll agree with you that SOME models will retain value more than others. SOME dealers may 'throw away' the book on some deals. It probably is fairly common. But ultimately those things would be factored into the Blue Book pricing for the next publication.

I also will suggest gear will retain less value than HST, that basic tractors will retain less value than fully featured tractors, etc. But those are just guesses of mine, since I don't have a Blue Book. Personally I'd like to know the objective information.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Donny I'll agree with you that SOME models will retain value more than others. SOME dealers may 'throw away' the book on some deals. It probably is fairly common. But ultimately those things would be factored into the Blue Book pricing for the next publication.

I also will suggest gear will retain less value than HST, that basic tractors will retain less value than fully featured tractors, etc. But those are just guesses of mine, since I don't have a Blue Book. Personally I'd like to know the objective information.

 

[orangebluegreen]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Why would you judge a complete line of tractors from one tractor ad? )</font>


I wouldn’t and I’m not. But consider a buyers perspective looking at machines like that and seeing 221 hours and mention of severe blow-by, certainly makes one question.

BTW....In my opinion IF Kioti resale prices are lower than others it is probably more like correct market value compared to over inflated resale of the others. The dealer network probably has something to do with that, some others offer too high a trade-in therefore resale is higher. They basically create their own market for new tractors by over pricing used ones. I’m speaking more about Kubota here because that’s what I’ve looked at most thoroughly. I doubt Kioti is taking many machines in on trade therefore the same circumstance would not play out. Another major factor would be “days on market” or “number of days unsold”. I see some machines with high prices sitting for years where I don’t see that with reasonably prices ones, I don’t see as many “over priced” Kioti’s as I do the others. The overpriced ones must be sitting waiting for a sucker or for inflation to take prices higher making the machine look like a bargain. I doubt a dealer comes out ahead by letting a machine sit for years compared to dumping it and moving to the next deal.

 

[orangebluegreen]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Why would you judge a complete line of tractors from one tractor ad? )</font>


I wouldn’t and I’m not. But consider a buyers perspective looking at machines like that and seeing 221 hours and mention of severe blow-by, certainly makes one question.

BTW....In my opinion IF Kioti resale prices are lower than others it is probably more like correct market value compared to over inflated resale of the others. The dealer network probably has something to do with that, some others offer too high a trade-in therefore resale is higher. They basically create their own market for new tractors by over pricing used ones. I’m speaking more about Kubota here because that’s what I’ve looked at most thoroughly. I doubt Kioti is taking many machines in on trade therefore the same circumstance would not play out. Another major factor would be “days on market” or “number of days unsold”. I see some machines with high prices sitting for years where I don’t see that with reasonably prices ones, I don’t see as many “over priced” Kioti’s as I do the others. The overpriced ones must be sitting waiting for a sucker or for inflation to take prices higher making the machine look like a bargain. I doubt a dealer comes out ahead by letting a machine sit for years compared to dumping it and moving to the next deal.

 

[HODAK]

Blue book - I did not say don't use it, I just gave an account of what happened to me and it was indeed funny. Even the dealer who told me what to ask privately, (using that book), was surprised, and.... happy to have sold me a new one.

What else would you use to get a national average?

I don't know.........you thought of something. Sounds good to me. I'm glad that there is a Kubota / NH dealer with the time to investigate this stuff. Might be interesting. Maybe.....

 

[HODAK]

Blue book - I did not say don't use it, I just gave an account of what happened to me and it was indeed funny. Even the dealer who told me what to ask privately, (using that book), was surprised, and.... happy to have sold me a new one.

What else would you use to get a national average?

I don't know.........you thought of something. Sounds good to me. I'm glad that there is a Kubota / NH dealer with the time to investigate this stuff. Might be interesting. Maybe.....

 

[RedDog]

<font color="blue">I hope this isn't another threrad headed for the dumper... </font>

If it does, it is only because of "trigger happy" moderators. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I stated earlier my opinion. I'm just startled that a Kubota/NH dealer has so much spare time to go through all the hassle of looking up values. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Neil has made it pretty obvious about his dislike of Kioti, not in this thread but others, and he is very well entitled to it, just like I am entitled to my dislike of Kubotas!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RedDog

 

[RedDog]

<font color="blue">I hope this isn't another threrad headed for the dumper... </font>

If it does, it is only because of "trigger happy" moderators. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I stated earlier my opinion. I'm just startled that a Kubota/NH dealer has so much spare time to go through all the hassle of looking up values. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Neil has made it pretty obvious about his dislike of Kioti, not in this thread but others, and he is very well entitled to it, just like I am entitled to my dislike of Kubotas!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

RedDog

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> If it does, it is only because of "trigger happy" moderators. </font>
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif More often than not, we wait until we're notified by one of the participants. Although, flareups do seem to be a little more prevalent is some forums versus others. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Why is re-sale value important anyway, except to people who lease their tractor?

 

[MikePA]

<font color="blue"> If it does, it is only because of "trigger happy" moderators. </font>
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif More often than not, we wait until we're notified by one of the participants. Although, flareups do seem to be a little more prevalent is some forums versus others. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Why is re-sale value important anyway, except to people who lease their tractor?

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue">
Neil has made it pretty obvious about his dislike of Kioti)</font>

I'd have to disagree with that. I really think its a fine tractor, there are much worse ones out there. If anything is causing you to think thats my perspective it maybe because I'm not a bit timmid about pointing out unpopular truths. If anything I've said is untrue your more than welcome to question it.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue">
Neil has made it pretty obvious about his dislike of Kioti)</font>

I'd have to disagree with that. I really think its a fine tractor, there are much worse ones out there. If anything is causing you to think thats my perspective it maybe because I'm not a bit timmid about pointing out unpopular truths. If anything I've said is untrue your more than welcome to question it.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="blue"> I'm just startled that a Kubota/NH dealer has so much spare time to go through all the hassle of looking up values. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif </font>

I guess I view it a bit differently than you do, and perhaps you are right and I am wrong. But it strikes me that Neil needs to know this information about all sorts of brands, not just about Kioti. He is a dealer, I expect he gets trade ins on Deere, NH, Case, Mahindra, Kioti, Long and a bunch of other brands. I am in business and I know about my bigger competitors and my smaller ones, it is my job to know that information. I'd say that a used car manager has a pretty darn good clue about the value of a used BMW or Toyota or Chevy, and which is going to be profitable to sell off his lot and which will go to the auction to be dumped.

So Neil is apparently preparing a spreadsheet, I presume it is for his sales department's use. And I think they have a couple locations so it will probably be an easy way to get the information out about popular sized machines. Afterall once an Excel spreadsheet is built, putting the data in is simple. Emailing it to his sales staff would be simple and potentially a powerful sales tool for his sales staff.


MikePA wrote: <font color="red"> why is re-sale value important</font>
Perhaps some people don't keep tractors as long as you do? Perhaps some people knowingly buy a large tractor for a few years of heavy tasks but realize they will downsize at some point in the future? Perhaps somepeople plan for the unplanned and then factor things like that into their purchase decision. There are probably dozens of reasons.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="blue"> I'm just startled that a Kubota/NH dealer has so much spare time to go through all the hassle of looking up values. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif </font>

I guess I view it a bit differently than you do, and perhaps you are right and I am wrong. But it strikes me that Neil needs to know this information about all sorts of brands, not just about Kioti. He is a dealer, I expect he gets trade ins on Deere, NH, Case, Mahindra, Kioti, Long and a bunch of other brands. I am in business and I know about my bigger competitors and my smaller ones, it is my job to know that information. I'd say that a used car manager has a pretty darn good clue about the value of a used BMW or Toyota or Chevy, and which is going to be profitable to sell off his lot and which will go to the auction to be dumped.

So Neil is apparently preparing a spreadsheet, I presume it is for his sales department's use. And I think they have a couple locations so it will probably be an easy way to get the information out about popular sized machines. Afterall once an Excel spreadsheet is built, putting the data in is simple. Emailing it to his sales staff would be simple and potentially a powerful sales tool for his sales staff.


MikePA wrote: <font color="red"> why is re-sale value important</font>
Perhaps some people don't keep tractors as long as you do? Perhaps some people knowingly buy a large tractor for a few years of heavy tasks but realize they will downsize at some point in the future? Perhaps somepeople plan for the unplanned and then factor things like that into their purchase decision. There are probably dozens of reasons.

 

[MikePA]

When Neil publishes his findings, brands will be ranked, with one at the top and one at the bottom. Brand X retains a higher percent of it's sale value after Y number of years. These figures, while true for Neil's market area, may not apply anywhere else. So, what's the value in discussing them? Academic discussions about value, as Hodak observed, typically end the same.

 

[MikePA]

When Neil publishes his findings, brands will be ranked, with one at the top and one at the bottom. Brand X retains a higher percent of it's sale value after Y number of years. These figures, while true for Neil's market area, may not apply anywhere else. So, what's the value in discussing them? Academic discussions about value, as Hodak observed, typically end the same.