Oil & Fuel Kioti CK30 will not start

[Bernty]

I have never had a problem starting my CK30 but today it will not start. It does crank ok so the battery is ok (new). I have checked and bled the fuel line up to bolt #1 in the enclosed picture. or http://2881neches.com/kioti/fuel.jpg. No problem. However, if I lose the fuel line going to the injectors (#3) I get nothing. Thought the fuel shut of solenoid #4 would not work but it does.
There is an orange cap shown here as #2. Can't find any reference to it in my manual. What is suppose to go in here. Oil or what?
Any hint would be appreciated.

 

[Amvcane]

The orange cap is the engine oil fill. You should use that instead of the cap on the valve cover. If you fill at the valve cover to fast oil will not be able to get to the sump fast enough causing it to flow through the breather hose into the intake filling any cylinder with the intake valve open causing hydraulic lock when you start the engine.
What year is the tractor?

 

[Bernty]

It is a 2007.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I would first check the glow plugs to ensure they are getting power with the switch in the ON position and also while cranking. My DK key switch got wonky (not unusual) in a way that cut power to the glow plugs while cranking. I mention this first because (while unlikely) it is the cheapest and easiest to fix.

The lack of fuel to the injector while cranking suggests an IP gear tooth failure. The typical symptoms of this failure are: ran fine, shut off, won't restart. See: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/296793-repair-option-kioti-tractors-broken.html

This is harder and more expensive to fix. You can check the IP by removing the oil-fill cover (#2 in your photo) to see if the IP rack moves freely or if it's jammed. You have a LOT of crud in that area so clean it before you unbolt anything. The stop solenoid will force the rack to the OFF, full aft, position by spring pressure when the switch is off. So turn the key to ON to retract the stop solenoid before you do the "feel" test on the IP rack. The rack should be lightly spring loaded to the forward (max fuel) position and rest against a lever from the centrifugal governor. You should be able to move the rack aft by light finger pressure if it's not jammed internally. If your IP is jammed, refer to the above link for options.

Scott

 

[Bernty]

P.S. Someone told me that when removing the solenoid I should be able to put my finger in the hole and be able to move the aperture inside. I can't. Should I be able to press this in. Could it be stuck in? I can't see it but it feels like a washer with a hole in the center for the solenoid arm. Is there a simple way to see if this aperature (or whatever it's called, moves freely.

 

[ritcheyvs]

P.S. Someone told me that when removing the solenoid I should be able to put my finger in the hole and be able to move the aperture inside. I can't. Should I be able to press this in. Could it be stuck in? I can't see it but it feels like a washer with a hole in the center for the solenoid arm. Is there a simple way to see if this aperature (or whatever it's called, moves freely.

Maybe not. In theory, yes but your finger may be too short. The solenoid pushes straight aft and I don't know if you can reach that far with a finger. But if you remove the small plate with the oil fill cap you can see the pin (which is attached to the rack) and feel if the rack is jammed or not by pushing on that pin.

 

[Bernty]

Thanks. I think we are getting somewhere. For some reason I'm convinced the stop function, what you call the rack, is stuck causing the problem. Unfortunately very hard to get to with the front loader in place. Need to come up with a way to get the tractor out of the garage, remove the brush hog and loader and then work on it. Something for tomorrow. Again, thanks for your help. You have been most helpfull...

 

[ritcheyvs]

Hate to bug you again but I removed the plate and this is how it looks. I can't move the arm inside forward anything although I can move what you see here back with some spring tension about 1/2 inch. Further, when I removed the solenoid in the front you would expect it to have some tendency to push out if something was resting on it but there is nothing. That leads me to believe the arm is stuck or should it be like this? If not, any quick fix?View attachment 390285

Bernty, I saw your post in another (old) thread (http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/312062-new-forum-kioti-ck30-will-5.html#post3893164 but I'm moving this reply back to the thread you started. It's easier for other posters can follow this if it's all in one place. Based on your observations, it sounds like your IP is indeed jammed. See this annotated pic:


Continuing after interruption from SWMBO: With the stop solenoid energized or removed, the rack should move full forward so the round pin rests against the flat face of the other governor lever (which is too far forward to see it in your photo). I think you are saying that the rack is still full aft and jammed in that position. If so you probably have broken gear teeth inside the injection pump. The official Kioti solution is to replace the injection pump. This is not too difficult and several owners have done this job DIY. The bad news is that a new IP costs in the vicinity od $1K. The same IP from a Bobcat dealer is slightly less. Several owners have had their IPs repaired at a local or regional Diesel shop (see the sticky post at the top of the Kioti Owning/Operating forum. These gears are symmetrical and some owners "fixed" their IP by reinstalling the bad gear 180 rotated degrees.

If you IP rack is truly jammed your next step is to remove the IP. I recommend you review the maintenance manual before attempting this. You may want to send a private message to other CK owner(s) who have done this job (see the spreadsheet linked in the sticky). One piece of good news: you don't need to re-time a new/rebuilt IP, just be sure to keep the spacers and gaskets under the IP which establish the injection timing.

Good luck. Please advise what you find and how it got fixed.

Scott

 

[Bernty]

I tend to remember someone offered pictures of this repair but can't find it again. Anyone know?

 

[Bernty]

I forgot to ask one more thing. Found many service manuals for the Kioti on the net. Any recommendation for the best one?

 

[ritcheyvs]

I forgot to ask one more thing. Found many service manuals for the Kioti on the net. Any recommendation for the best one?

There is only one: the official Kioti service manual for your specific model tractor. You may find pirated digital copies of on ebay. A legal paper manual costs in the vicinity of $100 from any Kioti dealer. Kioti manuals from that era were not as good as the later ones but they are as good as it gets.

 

[Bernty]

So I spent the day taking everything apart in order to get to the IP. I have good pictures with step by step to get there that I will post later but now I'm finally at the pump but it will not come out. Take a look at the picture. I can lift it about 1/2 inch in the front and a 1/4 inch in the back but that's it. Getting really frustrated. Does anyone have an idea?

 

[Bernty]

Using a mirror I could see the rack, being so far back, prevented the removal. I had no other choice than using a rod in the idle hole banging it forwards until I was able to get it out. So here it is on the kitchen table ready to be taken apart. Can't move the rack without using force. Kind of wonder, how is this lubricated?

 

[Fuggley]

Using a mirror I could see the rack, being so far back, prevented the removal. I had no other choice than using a rod in the idle hole banging it forwards until I was able to get it out. So here it is on the kitchen table ready to be taken apart. Can't move the rack without using force. Kind of wonder, how is this lubricated? <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/kioti-owning-operating/390374-kioti-ck30-will-not-start-img_0312-jpg"/>

... beating the rack back to get the unit out is not a good idea if your aim is to repair it.
These units are lubricated externally by oil splash and internally of course by diesel.
Kioti will suggest that after you have it out like you do, to get some Seafoam cleaner type stuff and sunk the whole unit completely submerged in that stuff in a pail for a week or so. If you can get anyone at Kioti to advise you at all they would tell you that, also to put conditioner in your diesel..... but don't waste your time.
None of that soaking stuff or that 180 degree rotation trick worked for me and I finally had enough of messing with it. I too couldn't resist finally beating "lightly" on the rack to get it to move.
Anyway, go get a new one from Michigan Iron. Easy to install. Your tractor will probably then work like it was new.
It is about a grand for a new unit but well worth it in my opinion to just get a new guaranteed part.
Kioti corporate has apparently decided to accept a bad reputation with regard to these early pumps.
Hope all works out for you good for you with this. You will get lots of sympathy on this form regarding the pump but not much I'm the way of a satisfactory patch for this known Kioti problem.

 

[Bernty]

I'm up running!
First I like to thank every one on the forum for their help in this matter. Without it I would still not know where to look and would probably spent thousand of dollars having the tractor towed to a dealer that for sure would have replaced the pump if not more. Thanks.
While doing this repair I decided to take some pictures both for myself, if I need to do this again a year from now, as well as others running into the same situation as I did, not knowing squat. I further tried to explain the different function of the IP unit. Made a web page with step by step explanations. I would not look at this page as final and if anyone has some input, changes, recommendations please let me know and I will update the page. It can be found under
IP Removal
2881neches.com/kioti/

Also, I would like to reiterate what I said in the end of the web page. Something is seriously wrong when we are forced to purchase a 1K pump when a 10 dollar gear is all we need. That and why is this unit designed so weak. It's a tractor for god sake. It should be made way more rugged than this. How can Kioti expect sale to grow if they keep putting out inferior products. If there has been improvements in this unit we should all be offered a replacement for free. The other thing is their service reps. I called several places in Texas before I turned to the forum. None of them had an earthly idea what could be wrong and their only recommendation was to bring the tractor in for service. It will be hard to convince me to purchase another Kioti. It's like having a gray market tractor.

 

[Notlaker]

I do not have the problem with my 2012 ck30 but I feel for those who are being subjected to such unnecessary grief. What possible reason does Kioti have to remain so non- proactive to such a simple pr problem . Makes me wonder if my brand loyalty is self inflicted. The most frustrating thing about it all is that it is so nonsensical. How can an entity be do smart at building a tractor and be so stupid at building relationships?

 

[murphy1244]

How can an entity be do smart at building a tractor and be so stupid at building relationships?

That is the Big question...

 

[ritcheyvs]

How can an entity be do smart at building a tractor and be so stupid at building relationships?

That is the Big question...

Easy. The tractors are designed and built by industrious Koreans in Korea. Customer service (in the US, anyway) is run by a bunch of clowns in Wendell NC. Their strategy seems to be to refer all problems to their dealers, then fire most of these dealers and hire a secretary to stonewall all phone calls from owners. Maybe we all need to gripe to Daedong that they need a better agent in the US, or at least new management there. If the folks in Wendell don't like my acerbic observations they need to do a better job supporting owners.

My DK45 is a great tractor with no serious problems to date. But I would never have bought it if I knew Kioti would fire my dealer a year later.

 

[Bernty]

Well said. Has anyone gone to Kioti in US or Korea and if so what was their response?

 

[murphy1244]

Well said. Has anyone gone to Kioti in US or Korea and if so what was their response?

Well if you called you got to listen to Connie.