Just can't get a good basic truck, like the old days!

[jyoutz]

I think we have said nearly the same thing!


I've ridden in a buddy's 2022'ish Rubicon 392 470 hp Wrangler, which was just rediculous, but all those that I owned and drove were older. My siblings and I have owned one with the 4.0L 6-cylinder (1994'ish) one Buick V6 conversion (my CJ-3A), and one I4 (1996'ish). All of ours were plenty peppy off the line and around town, but were downright terrifying at my normal PA Turnpike speeds.

But it's following Wranglers on the road every day that caused me to form this opinion, much more than any I've personally driven. So as stated, maybe its the drivers more than the vehicle. All I know is that I will just about kill us all, to ensure I never end up behind one. For nearly every time I come up behind someone driving below the speed limit in one of those canvas boxes on wheels, I regret it.

I would imagine the flapping soft tops incentivize the drivers to avoid higher speeds. My hardtop is quiet at 80+ mph. I have driven some of those older models and they definitely don’t have as good of road manners as the current JLU models.

 

[WinterDeere]

I would imagine the flapping soft tops incentivize the drivers to avoid higher speeds. My hardtop is quiet at 80+ mph. I have driven some of those older models and they definitely don’t have as good of road manners as the current JLU models.

Oh, yeah. I'd definitely agree with that. I remember having to drive my brother's 2dr 1996 ragtop home from his wedding on the PA turnpike, where I'd normally be doing 85+ in any other vehicle. I couldn't stand to have the thing much above 65 mph though, because it felt like the roof was going to tear completely off anywhere above that.

Also, with the possible exception of the Sahara (can't remember), all of ours were 2-doors. Very short and hyper-reactive steering at highway speeds, which when combined with their high center of mass, just made them dangerous at highway speeds.

 

[jyoutz]

Oh, yeah. I'd definitely agree with that. I remember having to drive my brother's 2dr 1996 ragtop home from his wedding on the PA turnpike, where I'd normally be doing 85+ in any other vehicle. I couldn't stand to have the thing much above 65 mph though, because it felt like the roof was going to tear completely off anywhere above that.

Also, with the possible exception of the Sahara (can't remember), all of ours were 2-doors. Very short and hyper-reactive steering at highway speeds, which when combined with their high center of mass, just made them dangerous at highway speeds.

Yeah, I don’t think the 2 door short wheel base models would be that great for interstate highway driving.

 

[RB5]

We rented a 2003 Grand Cherokee for a vacation one time. I liked it off road. The ride was great on our long rough gravel driveway and across out property, but on the freeway it seemed a little unstable at 70MPH. I think that was also before Daimler got involved into making the Grand Cherokee more into a luxury vehicle. I drove one a few years later, and it was a completely different ride.

 

[Oaktree]

We rented a 2003 Grand Cherokee for a vacation one time. I liked it off road. The ride was great on our long rough gravel driveway and across out property, but on the freeway it seemed a little unstable at 70MPH. I think that was also before Daimler got involved into making the Grand Cherokee more into a luxury vehicle. I drove one a few years later, and it was a completely different ride.

I've had 2 GC's over the years, a '98 and an '06, both were decent vehicles. No handling issues. The '06 was Daimler, the '98 wasn't. While both were good at the type of off-roading I do (mostly accessing communication towers on mountain tops), I doubt they'd hold a candle to the Wrangler, etc. (can't keep up with the names on what I call "mailman Jeeps").
Was parked next to a fairly late model one a couple weeks ago...that thing was huge.

 

[WinterDeere]

I've had 2 GC's over the years, a '98 and an '06, both were decent vehicles. No handling issues.

I suspect it depends on the trim level. I drove a Cherokee Sport variant, and it was quite stable. But my wife had a ca.2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo that was without any doubt, the most unstable vehicle I have ever driven. I remember swerving to miss a deer once, just a very minor change in direction at 45 - 50 mph that should have been no challenge, and almost losing the thing due to the too-soft suspension and extreme body roll that thing exhibited.

My wife ended up barrel-rolling that GC on the PA turnpike while doing about 70 mph. I was glad she was okay, and just as glad that vehicle was totaled. I don't think I've ever hated driving any car as much as that one.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^^^^

Is that what they refer to as "Jeep wobble?"

 

[RB5]

I suspect it depends on the trim level. I drove a Cherokee Sport variant, and it was quite stable. But my wife had a ca.2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo that was without any doubt, the most unstable vehicle I have ever driven. I remember swerving to miss a deer once, just a very minor change in direction at 45 - 50 mph that should have been no challenge, and almost losing the thing due to the too-soft suspension and extreme body roll that thing exhibited.

My wife ended up barrel-rolling that GC on the PA turnpike while doing about 70 mph. I was glad she was okay, and just as glad that vehicle was totaled. I don't think I've ever hated driving any car as much as that one.

The rental was a Laredo.

 

[jyoutz]

The rental was a Laredo.

A lot has changed in 25 years.

 

[Hay Dude]

I suspect it depends on the trim level. I drove a Cherokee Sport variant, and it was quite stable. But my wife had a ca.2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo that was without any doubt, the most unstable vehicle I have ever driven. I remember swerving to miss a deer once, just a very minor change in direction at 45 - 50 mph that should have been no challenge, and almost losing the thing due to the too-soft suspension and extreme body roll that thing exhibited.

My wife ended up barrel-rolling that GC on the PA turnpike while doing about 70 mph. I was glad she was okay, and just as glad that vehicle was totaled. I don't think I've ever hated driving any car as much as that one.

Any vehicle that barrel rolls at 70 MPH should be lauded as being a VERY protective vehicle.
I could not imagine surviving a 70MPH barrel roll.

 

[WinterDeere]

The rental was a Laredo.

That's a real surprise. Ours was awful.

Any vehicle that barrel rolls at 70 MPH should be lauded as being a VERY protective vehicle.
I could not imagine surviving a 70MPH barrel roll.

It did have a good airbag system for a vehicle of that era, but the survival was really just dumb luck. And if she were in a less unstable vehicle, it wouldn't have rolled at all.

The GC Laredo roof caved in to where it almost touched the center console. It looked just like Jill Taylor's Nomad, after Tim had dropped the I-beam on it. My wife's head just happened to be in the narrow pocket of roof line that was held up by the door frame. She was lucky.

 

[3930dave]

I've had 2 GC's over the years, a '98 and an '06, both were decent vehicles. No handling issues. The '06 was Daimler, the '98 wasn't. While both were good at the type of off-roading I do (mostly accessing communication towers on mountain tops), I doubt they'd hold a candle to the Wrangler, etc. (can't keep up with the names on what I call "mailman Jeeps").
Was parked next to a fairly late model one a couple weeks ago...that thing was huge.

Sometimes, they have the recipe, then forget or lose it, for a while anyway.....

I drove a circa 1990 Cherokee (not GC) occasionally for the company I worked for then. I liked that original square body, visually, and put in some 4 hour+ highway trips with it, for days in a row. I liked how it handled, but that was just normal slice/dice highway traffic - never had to make a high-speed Emerg move with it.

Back to that era, with the Explorer rollovers that were going on.... I read a detailed analysis (book) of the then-current SUV chassis..... that era of Cherokee was considered a significant improvement, for the time.

I'm 6' tall, but nobody would confuse me for a Linebacker, and the tech that often rode with me was about 5' 6", wiry strong, but not a Sumo either..... learned fast, that with 2 people, with just one small personal bag each, then adding tools, wire, equipment spares to install..... even though the body was square, you ran out of room PDQ..... definitely not a Suburban.

What was Ferrari's line about the original Jeep, something like..... "..... the Perfect Vehicle, if you need to get a very heavy telephone-booth to the top of a very tall mountain !"

Rgds, D.

 

[WinterDeere]

How's this for a "good basic truck like the old days"?



That's my grandfather, great-grandfather, and father with the truck. The small rise in the background would be likely Bowman's Hill or the top of Jericho Mountain, given they each owned several properties on and around both those hills, I'm still hunting clues to place the location exactly. Maybe one of our New Hope residents will recognize the landscape.

 

[Cub 7275]

Sign me up for one of those ^^^^^^^

Basic truck: Affordable. Repairable by owner. Dependable. Doesn’t spy on vehicle occupants and report driver or occupant data back to the mother ship (See Nissan’s and Kia's privacy policies)! I know an engineer who's company forbids discussion of company business in or near Tesla vehicles.

By those metrics, one cannot buy a new basic truck anymore.


*Privacy Not Included: A Buyer’s Guide for Connected Products

Key takeaways about automotive manufacturers' data collection quoted from the article:

1. They collect too much personal data (all of them)
2. Most (84%) share or sell your data
3. Most (92%) give drivers little to no control over their personal data

"Nissan earned its second-to-last spot for collecting some of the creepiest categories of data we have ever seen. It’s worth reading the review in full, but you should know it includes your “$exual activity.” Not to be out done, Kia also mentions they can collect information about your “$ex life” in their privacy policy. Oh, and six car companies say they can collect your “genetic information” or “genetic characteristics.” Yes, reading car privacy policies is a scary endeavor.”

 

[Oaktree]

I suspect it depends on the trim level. I drove a Cherokee Sport variant, and it was quite stable. But my wife had a ca.2000 Grand Cherokee Laredo that was without any doubt, the most unstable vehicle I have ever driven.

The '06 was a Laredo, the '98 was one step below the Limited (there was one option mine didn't have, don't recall what it was...certainly nothing I ever missed ). I don't recall the handling being all that different between the two.

I have a neighbor who's very down on Jeeps because of the handling. Certainly no one's idea of a sports car, but my two handled just fine for any of my needs. The Jeep forums are always referring to something they call "death wobble". Never experienced it, then again the suspension was strictly stock.

"Nissan earned its second-to-last spot for collecting some of the creepiest categories of data we have ever seen. It’s worth reading the review in full, but you should know it includes your “$exual activity.” Not to be out done, Kia also mentions they can collect information about your “$ex life” in their privacy policy. Oh, and six car companies say they can collect your “genetic information” or “genetic characteristics.” Yes, reading car privacy policies is a scary endeavor.”

Now how would they know about that? Sensors to detect "back seat boogie"?
How do vehicles connect to the mothership? I know most seem to have some sort of internet connectivity built in, is it possible to disable that without bricking the vehicle itself? I have no need for a wifi hotspot in my car, nor is the ability to receive over-the-air software updates high on my "gotta have" list.

I've been told that disconnecting the Onstar module in a GM will prevent it from phoning home, not sure what else that disables. I'm sure that varies by year. Don't know anyone who's ever done it.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Me - definitely avoid. Can't beat the simplicity and load-carrying ability of leaf springs. These new trucks are complicated enough without adding air suspension to the mix. I've read of multiple cases of air suspension failure, disabling the vehicle. Don't hear of leaf springs failing!

I added air bags to my half ton, and they have been totally reliable, the next one will get them too.

I didn't buy cheapo bags, and I fill them as needed for the load I'm hauling to keep the truck level.

They really work great.

SR

 

[WinterDeere]

Sign me up for one of those ^^^^^^^

Basic truck: Affordable. Repairable by owner. Dependable.

I don't remember that particular truck in the image I posted, I believe its bed had become my grandfather's utility trailer by the time I came along, but I do remember many of their other pre-1980 trucks. They were indeed affordable and repairable, but they were never dependable!

If you're going to own a truck that requires constant repairs, it damn well better be owner-repairable. Today's vehicles are obviously more technical, but also require orders of magnitude fewer repairs to just reliably start each cold morning or hot afternoon.

The '06 was a Laredo, the '98 was one step below the Limited (there was one option mine didn't have, don't recall what it was...certainly nothing I ever missed ). I don't recall the handling being all that different between the two.

I suspect one of a few things, here:

1. Maybe they did something new and unique with the suspension design in my wife's GC Laredo model year, which was quickly abandoned due to the problems it created.

2. Maybe something was never set up right in that one vehicle, which no one ever noticed. Missing sway bar? Who knows! The only work I ever did under that vehicle was a radiator replacement and maybe a few oil changes, it was before we were married and wasn't my car.

3. Maybe all early Laredo's were terrible, and Jeep just improved their suspension design in the Laredo's somewhere between our ca.2000 model and your 2006 model.

Like I said, I drove other Jeep GC's, most notably a friend's 1990's "Sport" model, and none were anywhere near as bad as that ca.2000 GC Laredo.

 

[newbury]

Bought my 2004 Dodge Cummins new in 2004.
No emissions from the factory except for some egr in the cam profile.
I can't find that cam.
Paid 39k out the door.
Yes I put a ton of money into it but no comparison to these new junks.
Dynos 600hp/1200tq
225,000 miles.View attachment 4515598

$39,000 in 2004 has the same buying power as approximately $66,900 to $67,000 in today's (late 2025) dollars, due to inflation

But why would I want to? BTW those old trucks were actually pretty expensive if you consider how basic the build was and factor in inflation. Take it one step further and calculate how many acres of farm land you could buy for a truck price back then vs now.

 

[WinterDeere]

$39,000 in 2004 has the same buying power as approximately $66,900 to $67,000 in today's (late 2025) dollars, due to inflation

I wonder how much these numbers are affected by the very thing we're gauging, car prices. You've probably noticed that most inflation calculators want to know the amount to which they're applying the inflation, and that they do not inflate all amounts by the same percentage. I wouldn't be surprised if new auto prices are one of the primary determining factors for the inflation percentage calculated in this dollar range.

Point being, it may be a bit of self-fulfilling circular logic, to use these calculators to look at equivalent auto prices over time.

 

[3930dave]

How's this for a "good basic truck like the old days"?

View attachment 4642703

That's my grandfather, great-grandfather, and father with the truck. The small rise in the background would be likely Bowman's Hill or the top of Jericho Mountain, given they each owned several properties on and around both those hills, I'm still hunting clues to place the location exactly. Maybe one of our New Hope residents will recognize the landscape.

A bit later than that era, but that pic reminds me of what my one Uncle always had on the Mather farm - Chevy Stepsides, with 3 in the tree..... I have fond memories of us heading to back-pastures, with me on the Stepside.....

Back further than either of these (and, I've told this one before, I'm sure.....), I was starting a Jay Leno Garage video with the better-half on the couch too..... circa 1930 luxury American car.....

First thing she says (long-hood, top-hinged doors, both sides) "Wow, look at how easy that engine is to get at". She doesn't turn wrenches, but has been around me a long time...... All I said was "Don't get me started...."

I appreciate where the engine tech has progressed to (I don't miss Points maintenance), but I shudder when I look under the hood of 6.7 Powerstroke.....

Rgds, D.