Ironman Anyone

[Capricious]

And I am telling you that my welding equipment is 1) rock solid; 2) supports the process that I need; 3) is better than my capabilities; and 4) isn't any more complicated or expensive than it needs to be. This is the same discussion that there is with cars. I strongly prefer a car without a bunch of extra stuff that I don't care about and will break. Others may like vibrating heated seats, but I live near Atlanta and I could care less. Give me power steering, power brakes, and AC and I am just fine. I don't even need, although it is convenient to have electric door locks and windows.

At my age (60), my 'stone age equipment' as you call it, will probably outlast my welding years, and has done a lot of welding repairs that have held up 100%. What more could I want? Well, to lose a bit of weight but we won't go there... <grin>

Man, I coulda wrote that post (except I am only 55)

When it comes to options on autos, I choose options this way: if i would not pay to repair it, I don't want it on the vehicle. No computer screens, no electric this, no power that. Windows with crank handles are fine, and so forth. And rubber on the floor instead of carpet. "leather trimmed" seats? Are you kidding? Give me vinyl i can spill coffee (or worse) on, and wipe clean.

My welder is an ancient Marquette 100 amp 240 volt A/C only stick. I bought a cheap 200 amp A/C Northern Tool stick unit on sale but have yet to even un-box it. I weld, but I don't know how to. But everything I melt together has stayed together, so far.

Keep it simple and cheap. Just like me.

 

[IslandTractor]

Am I mistaken to say that most of the new welding technology is only to benefit high production/repetitive work? Seems it's a lot to dial in and get right for repair type work. While technology is nice, even if it were affordable for the average joe, it would still be useless. I think that is what Thomas is trying to say as well.

I think that is fair but it is also the case that such technology will trickle down to benefit the typical DYI handyman too. Some of the features will probably never be relevant to someone fixing a crack in their lawnmower deck while others will make that sort of repair easier, cleaner and more reliable. I don't claim to know where the line is but I certainly find my newer inverter based highish tech Miller welder to be easier to use and helps me make better welds than my first tombstone. I don't need a welder to make me a cappuccino but if the technology advances to the point that I can just enter the thickness and type of steel and type of weld into the machine rather than running a few test beads to find the optimal settings, that will help me make better welds and waste less material and time.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

I think new technology is cool - I just don't want it in my shop very much because I can't afford to fix it.

My best welder is my 1963 Airco tig/stick - 900 lbs of awesome right there
My mig is the Millermatic 210 - no digital readouts needed.
They will both outlast my two inverter machines - which are handy and light - just won't last long.

I generally run 10-15 years behind technology anyway.
Mostly because I can't afford it, but more importantly I don't trust it until it's been around at least that long.

I like anti-lock brakes and air conditioning, auto vs stick doesn't matter, power window and locks - don't care.
Drum vs disk in the back of my truck - don't care - but I like disks up front.
Power vibrating lumbar heated/cooled seat - not yet, but ask me in 20 years when I'm 64 and that may change :laughing:

I'm simple and cheap...but I like my women smart, hot and cheap

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

I think that is fair but it is also the case that such technology will trickle down to benefit the typical DYI handyman too. Some of the features will probably never be relevant to someone fixing a crack in their lawnmower deck while others will make that sort of repair easier, cleaner and more reliable. I don't claim to know where the line is but I certainly find my newer inverter based highish tech Miller welder to be easier to use and helps me make better welds than my first tombstone. I don't need a welder to make me a cappuccino but if the technology advances to the point that I can just enter the thickness and type of steel and type of weld into the machine rather than running a few test beads to find the optimal settings, that will help me make better welds and waste less material and time.

Yep, sounds reasonable.

 

[IslandTractor]

Oh please. I didn't suggest that I wanted to get something that was 30 years old, just something that wasn't overly complicated and suited the task at hand. I didn't suggest bias tires, I said vibrating heated seats, and no I didn't mean as opposed to no seats, let's not get ridiculous.

Some might suggest that I need to buy a CNC controlled cutting table instead of a router, and I beg to differ. A good router is not inferior to a CNC table, it's a different tool. Just like many welders are, certain types are geared at certain work. The ones with pulse on pulse are used in some high production manufacturing jobs. I have yet to even turn the pulse on on mine, as it isn't used in the welding process that I am doing.

Go ahead and buy your triple negative pulse on positive pulse stepped square wave digital welder that will also give you current weather settings. I will just look up at the sky myself before I weld... <grin>

I understood your reasonable earlier post. Trouble is that we all tend to either overly enthusiastically embrace or reject new technology. I understand your point but there really are changes that might end up being advances we comfortably adopt as experience shows us they are worthwhile. Vinyl seats rather than cloth were at one time just newfangled plastic stuff. Automatic transmissions were slush boxes. Bias ply tires were state of the art and folks made fun of fancy European cars with wizbang radials.

Welding equipment will change as the science of welding advances. We can still use a horse and buggy to go grocery shopping if we want but most of us have accepted that newer technology generally has benefits. No need to run out to buy the newest Tesla (wouldn't mind taking one on a spin however), but even those of us who resist change (me too) will eventually be won over by legitimate improvements in available transportation and welding technology.

Besides, wouldn't vibrating air conditioned seats be nice on a long drive on a hot summer day?:cool2:

 

[muddstopper]

Shucks, I need to learn to use what I got before jumping into something I cant even turn on

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

Bias ply tires were state of the art and folks made fun of fancy European cars with wizbang radials.

Besides, wouldn't vibrating air conditioned seats be nice on a long drive on a hot summer day?:cool2:

Well.....they were European....

I think my Harley qualifies as having vibrating air conditioned seats - and it's nice on a hot summer day

 

[Reverser]

Well.....they were European....

I think my Harley qualifies as having vibrating air conditioned seats - and it's nice on a hot summer day

Good answer, Dave. :laughing:
Now, if they could just invent a way of keeping bugs out of our teeth.

 

[Reverser]

.. I'm telling you to give up your 1970's technology at all.

I think Yomax intended to use the word "not" in there.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

Good answer, Dave. :laughing:
Now, if they could just invent a way of keeping bugs out of our teeth.

That's easy - stop smiling at all the pretty girls that are wearing next to nothing in the summer

...on second thought, maybe not so easy

 

[dfkrug]

Well after trying stick welding I have decided I hate it... Too many variables.
I love MIG, have a Hobart Handler 140 and though I would get the Hobart Ironman 230 as it will weld
up to 1/2" and that would work for anything I would ever do. Anyone have this machine? Likes dislikes?

Well, I love my Ironman....210, that is. Replaced by the Ironman 230 nearly 10 y ago. Nearly the same unit.
Best deal I could find on a new 240V MIG. I use 25# rolls of .035 ER70S wire and 75/25 gas.

BUT....I still use my Miller Thunderbolt 225 AC/DC stick welder (DC only!!) for the 1/2" plate I do. You CAN use the
MIG for that if you do multiple passes, and keep the work really hot. AC stick welding can be sooo
frustrating, I know, but I lived with that (Lincoln AC225) for many years. Long gone.

I have also used the Ironman with stainless wire, and even .035" Al wire, WITHOUT the spoolgun. You
can do aluminum without a spoolgun, but replacing the wire in the torch is a bit of a hassle. You
will get some drive hangups with Al, too, if you are not really careful about wire feed drag.

 

[ThomasH]

I think that is fair but it is also the case that such technology will trickle down to benefit the typical DYI handyman too. Some of the features will probably never be relevant to someone fixing a crack in their lawnmower deck while others will make that sort of repair easier, cleaner and more reliable. I don't claim to know where the line is but I certainly find my newer inverter based highish tech Miller welder to be easier to use and helps me make better welds than my first tombstone. I don't need a welder to make me a cappuccino but if the technology advances to the point that I can just enter the thickness and type of steel and type of weld into the machine rather than running a few test beads to find the optimal settings, that will help me make better welds and waste less material and time.

Yup, it would be nice, such as Autoset in some Miller gear, but then again you have to start welding and watch the puddle to see how well you are pentratrating, etc, and do minor adjustments, so the torch would have to have some fairly sophisticated auto-sense technology to really get that part right. And I would say if I have the option, no thanks, I will just tweak a knob after welding a small amount and adjust the heat a touch. I weld a bit irregularly, in that weeks can go by without anything and then I end up doing fabricating/welding for two days. Even with my brain farts I can remember pretty well how to set things for a certain process (stick or mig) and then with one minor adjustment adjustment I get going.

One thing I don't do too much of is overhead welding, and I can see how pulse would help freeze the puddle faster in that process and that would be a good thing. Nor do I weld much aluminum. Otherwise, a good DC welder with hot start and arc force controls, and amperage/voltage/and wire feed controls (if I am doing mig) and I am doing as good a work as I can with my skill level.

The thing I *could* use but can't afford (space or $ wise) is a welding positioner. It's somewhat simple to weld on a temporary brace to try to position something, and use an overhead chain hoist, so I can't justify $5,000-10,000 to position a backhoe bucket for example. After seeing the really impressive backhoe that BFreaky built, basically on a concrete floor, I feel extravagant having a welding table...

 

[Nightforce]

Regardless of which process, both require practice....The more you weld the greater your understanding becomes allowing you to make quicker decisions and fine tune your techniques....

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

I think a lot of the analogies thrown around here are wrong. There's a lot of talking about comparing autos and options and accessories. What you should be comparing is what is under the hood: a flat head 4 cylinder engine or a dual overhead cam with electronically controlled timing and fuel injection. Forget about the accessories. A lot of the technology is inside the box, and not something people will see or be able to control. Which will last longer? My money is on the dual overhead cam engine for the highest mileage durability. The technology doesn't have all to do with bells and whistles, but at the foundation of how the arc is generated, the smoothness, and the overall feel and quality of it. Inverters have helped move technology along with welders. Most people that talk about the evils of technology in welding have never operated an inverter welder and felt the difference the technology can make.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Additionally, sharing some of the sentiments of Yomax, the major guys have held the market back, rather arrogantly I think. No different than the big three auto companies did in the 70's and 80's trying to impress people with their "bigness" rather than supplying what people need. It's almost as if Miller and Lincoln were arrogantly saying, you'll need what we give you. In a strange way the Chinese inverters on the market have really shaken these sleepy giants awake. TA, Everlast and others have put a bite into the market that these guys were raking in the cash in the DIY and prosumer markets that were being taken for granted. While some may doubt reliability, and despite people questioning performance, support as a red herring to discourage others from buying, the units offer a "taste" of what is possible with more advanced technology at the very least.

Now, getting back on track to whether the Ironman is good. I'd take a look at whether you'd want a roll around unit or a table top. 200 amps of welding power is more than adequate for most welders. I don't know how many people on average buying a MIG need a full 250 amps or more. I've got a roll around. I do use it, but nowadays it sits more an more since I have been using the smaller Everlast MIGs. And my ESAB is no slouch. It puts others to shame. But it doesn't get right there in the middle of stuff easily where I need it. I have to shove it around and, well it weighs over a pound per amp I think. It's heavy. Now the Ironman isn't so heavy as that, but space and convenience may be something you want to consider.

 

[Reverser]

What you should be comparing is what is under the hood: a flat head 4 cylinder engine or a dual overhead cam with electronically controlled timing and fuel injection. Which will last longer? My money is on the dual overhead cam engine for the highest mileage durability.

I see the message you're trying to convey, Mark.
But I think many Ford 8N and 9N owners with their old 4 cylinder flat head engines, would disagree with your comparison of engine durability. I think most are probably still around, being 60 or 70 years old.

At least here in Texas, they're thicker than hair on a dog's back. :laughing:

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

People that own 8,2, or 9N's don't realize how many times they've been rebuilt or resurrected and the best ones where people owned them since new or second owner usually are units with relatively low hours. Having my fill of those tractors, once you jump on a new diesel tractor of the same horsepower with 4WD, you quickly see there isn't any comparison. But if all you've ever operated was an 9, 2 or 8N and say it's the best out there, well it was in its day, but it would be crazy to think that better tractors have never been made that were better designed, longer lasting or more useable. A 3 speed 9N or 2N was fine until a 4 speed 8N came along and the 8N was fine until live hydraulics eclipsed it along with live PTO...Once people learned they didn't have to get pushed through a fence while bushhogging when they tried to stop, it became quite obvious that technology was something to embrace rather than scoff at.

 

[aczlan]

People that own 8,2, or 9N's don't realize how many times they've been rebuilt or resurrected and the best ones where people owned them since new or second owner usually are units with relatively low hours. Having my fill of those tractors, once you jump on a new diesel tractor of the same horsepower with 4WD, you quickly see there isn't any comparison. But if all you've ever operated was an 9, 2 or 8N and say it's the best out there, well it was in its day, but it would be crazy to think that better tractors have never been made that were better designed, longer lasting or more useable. A 3 speed 9N or 2N was fine until a 4 speed 8N came along and the 8N was fine until live hydraulics eclipsed it along with live PTO...Once people learned they didn't have to get pushed through a fence while bushhogging when they tried to stop, it became quite obvious that technology was something to embrace rather than scoff at.

And you could do more with less... Dad went from a Massey Industrial 35 (50HP Perkins Diesel, 2WD, 6' loader bucket, massively overbuilt) to a Kubota L3650 (40HP, 4WD) and the Kubota would do more than the Massey would because it had way more traction...

Aaron Z