HST vs. Gear Drive

[charlz]

After doing a fair bit of loader work with my 7100 gear I would jump on a good HST deal.

 

[jas67]

I'm trying to. I sent an email to the seller of the B7200 HST I was looking at to call me to set up a time to look at it, but haven't heard back.

He did reply to an earlier email asking the hours, so hopefully, I haven't missed out on it.

jas67

 

[Soundguy]

Clutch goes on the geared transmission not much happens either!

As long as the hub don't rip out, I can start her in gear and still walk of fthe tracks.

i can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a failed hub..

if it's a wear issue.. then you know about it.. its not like you go outside one day and the clutch is out. when you nitice it slipping.. you adjust it. and then in a few years you adjust it again.. and so on.. untill you finally use up the adjustment.. then eventually.. you repalce it.. just like any other wear media. i don't expect brakes to last a lifetime.. why would i expect a clutch to?

Besides.. i'll bet a standard clutch is cheaper than a R&R on an HST tranny!

soundguy

 

[Charlesaf3]

soundguy, it was neil messick that said that, and he repairs both of them... I tend to trust repair shops experience.

Hasn't HST been around 40 years or so already?

 

[Soundguy]

soundguy, it was neil messick that said that, and he repairs both of them... I tend to trust repair shops experience.

Hasn't HST been around 40 years or so already?

I can't see how a replacement clutch costs more than a rebuild on an HST trans.

As for 40 ys.. you think thats alot.. how long has gear tractors been around? 3x that?

The statement that HST was more durable .. when you look at how long gear has been around vs hst.. well.. it's just kind of funny. As for those 40yr old units.. I know loks of guys ditching the big red tractors as they have been putting in heavier and heavier oil into them keepiong them going till they won't go no more... Whereas ont he flip side... 40 year old gear trans might be just fine...

I'm betting on metal vs rubber any day.. at least with our technology where it is right now.. hst's got way too many places to leak and not work.. vs a gear trans that could leak AND work..

soundguy

 

[Charlesaf3]

yep, I do think 40 years is a lot. If you don't use anything invented in the last 40 years, I'll be impressed. By that metric, no modern airliner is yet proven.

I think the issue is not which costs more to repair, but which needs repair more. But I really don't know the answer to either personally, like I said I'm just going off the repair guys.

 

[Egon]

Yup, the clutch goes and one can always start it in gear! And then you double clutch and use the heel toe method to keep on driving??

As with clutch maintenance so would one also be expected to look at maintaining an HST. Catastopic failures can happen to either system.

If we really have to rely on how long a system has been in use to determine how well it lasts we should all have chain drives should we not??

 

[jas67]

Whew! Did I start a hot debate here or what. I'm many people buying the size tractor I'm talking about will never wear either out. I know, that I, for one will be lucky to put over 100 hrs a year on it, probably less than 50.

Since, I haven't heard back from the seller of the B7200 HST yet, does anyone know of any good deals on as B7100/B7200/B7300 HSD/HST, etc in PA, or Northern MD?

I want an FEL, unless, I can move the KB219 from my gear-drive B7100 over.

Thanks,
jas67

 

[brandoro]

Only had two problems with the B6200 gear trans in thirteen years of ownership. One was not the tractors fault, the other was failure of the spline in the clutch disc. Went from working perfectly to not working at all. After fiddling with it for half a day I used a come-a-long to pull it up on the trailer and took it to town. Only the disc had failed but still had to split the tractor to change it. Only three years on the B7610 but still smiling. If there is a next tractor I'm +90% sure it will be a hydrostatic drive, just bigger and stronger, maybe a cab...

 

[Stuckin67]

I purchased a geared 2004 B7510 (58 hours) with LA302 loader, 4 ft. Bush Hog Squealer, and a Woods GTC-52 tiller for less than $9,000. I would have preferred to have a new B2320 with 3-speed HST, but when the seller of the 7510 accepted my low-ish offer, I had to go with price over features. In my opinion, the best deals going at the moment are on new tractors due to low interest financing and competitive pricing. Sellers of used tractors should be willing to deal.

 

[Soundguy]

yep, I do think 40 years is a lot. If you don't use anything invented in the last 40 years, I'll be impressed. By that metric, no modern airliner is yet proven.

I think the issue is not which costs more to repair, but which needs repair more. But I really don't know the answer to either personally, like I said I'm just going off the repair guys.

You are deliberatly distorting what was said.

I protested to the statement that HST was more reliable than gear technology.. the reason stated was that it has been around 40 ys.. when in fact gear technology has been around factors of that number.

I'm not saying HST is unproven.. or that it is not a good tecnhology.. I do however disagree that it is more reliable.

And I'm not sure about the point of your comment about not using anything built in the last 40 ys.. that one is from right field I guess? perhaps to confuse the situation? I never made a statement vs not using any technology built in the last 40 ys.

This is why HST vs Gear threads get closed.... blanket statements don't have a place here.. by nature.. blanket statements can almost always be disproven due to the large amount of variabbles and exceptions that exist. The blanket statement that HST is more reliable technology than plain gear is just that sort of blanket statement.

soundguy

 

[Charlesaf3]

You said 40 years was too little - I was pointing out its just fine for most things, things don't have to be around for 120 years to be proven good.

Once again, I don't know the answer, all I know is what the repair shops say. Which is good enough for me, as they have a statistically significant N, I don't.

Gear is clearly better for primary tillage above certain horsepower currently, I'm not saying HST is better for everything. I do think its better for most uses for CUTS though - I doubt most people buy a CUT for heavy plowing.

 

[Soundguy]

I said 40ys was a bit lite for compairing to something else that had ben around many times longer.. IE.. saying hst was better than gear.

40 ys is fine for saying HST works pretty good nowadays... but for saying it is more reliable than something that has proven reliability into the last century? I'm not convinced that 40ys is enough on that.... I see plenty of un-reworked gear boxes from early in the 1900's.. that speaks volumes about reliability.. This is not a comment aimed at saying hst wasn't proven. I think we can call that a given now. But in realitive terms.. it would be like saying ion drives are more reliable than liquid fuel drives for space vehicles... even thought we've been using liquid fuel rockets a long time, vs the 'realitively' new technology of ion drives.... see.. the comment doesn't say one of them is bad.. it's just that it's hard to draw an inference of superior reliability of a product vs another product that also has a good track record, and has been around a few times longer than the other comparison item.

soundguy

 

[jas67]

OK, what about the context of 20-30 years ago, as the B7200HST that I was looking at is probably from the early 80's. Where the particular hydrostatic transmissions used in the early B7100 and B7200's reliable? I only have a tractor for occasional use ( after my immediate landscaping project, it will be used for snow removal from my 260' driveway, and for spring mulch distributing duties, and that is about it); thus, I can't justify buying anything that cost much more than $5k or so (I paid $4600 for the B7100 gear drive w/ loader). Realistically, I can't expect to get anything much newer in this price range, unless there is something wrong with it. I'd love to get a newer-than-1990 B7100, or a B7300 with a loader in this price range, but I don't think that is going to happen.

So, putting it in that context, is an early 80's B7100 or B7200 with hydrostatic a good choice over my gear drive B7100?

 

[grossgary]

So, putting it in that context, is an early 80's B7100 or B7200 with hydrostatic a good choice over my gear drive B7100?

well i just got my 94 B7100 and it's awesome. i cut a few rolling/uneven acres with it and the control is fantastic. i had considered some others with gear drives, i'm glad i didn't get them. my small property and navigating ponds, creeks, trees, hills, mountains...etc, a gear would be way too cumbersome.

i was worried about speed, i didn't want a slow machine and this one is just fast enough for my property/uses. i was sick and tired of my old slow riding lawn mowers, and was worried the HST was going to be no or a small improvement - but this thing is a HUGE improvement. has dual range and goes as fast as i need to.

i used to run my grandfathers old enormous farm-all which was a gear shift so i didn't think much of it. but that was on large tracks of straight flat-land fields. easy going. i'm glad i read some thoughts on the subject before buying, i'm fairly certain i'd hate the gear drives for my uses.

with just mulching and snow removal i think the HST is a great choice for you too but with such limited use maybe the minor differences don't matter to you?

HST has lots of benefits - you can hold your coke or cell phone while driving, shave, and even drive it easier if you hurt yourself (actually i partially tore my rotator cuff so i'm doubly glad i have HST). and the HST my wife can drive!

 

[jas67]

I missed out. I tried for the past few days to reach the seller of the B7200HST, he finally got back to me this morning, he sold it yesterday.


So, I guess I keep on looking....

If anyone sees any B7100/B7200/B7300 with a loader and hydrostatic drive available for under $6k near south-central-PA, please PM me. I'd even consider one w/o a loader (for under $4k) if I can mount my B-219 from my gear-drive B7100.

Thanks!
jas67

 

[jas67]

I'm definitely convinced that HST would be much better for my needs. In just the short time I'd had the gear-drive, I can see that. I was running out of time to find one, because I had to get my project started (the wife has a schedule), so it was a gear drive, or the shovel, rake and wheel-barrow. It has been an enormously helpful tool, but I definitely want to get an HST. The good thing is that the gear-drive tractor does the job, and is way better than nothing. I could probably do the front-end loader work 25-35% faster with an HST than the gear drive, but the gear drive is 1000% (or more) faster than no tractor at all.

 

[N80]

I agree with soundguy. It's laughable to suggest that HST is more reliable than gear. And 40 years has got nothing to do with it.

HST is typically used in smaller tractors that aren't required to pull as heavy a loads as gear drive tractors in general. So even if shop records indicate more repairs on gear tractors, I'd suspect it is beacuse the bulk of HST tractors are used like big lawn mowers while many gear tractors are used in more extreme circumstances like ground engaging etc.

Regardless. If the clutch goes out on my L4400 I will change it myself and I'm no mechanic. At the same time if almost anything on par with a clutch goes wrong with an HST there are probably few if any of us here who would even have a clue what to do with it.

I'm not knocking HST. I think for most average weekend warriors and small tractor owners with a few extra bucks HST makes everyone happy. I just don't buy the reliability argument at all. Zero.

And for constant loader work, I bet HST can't be beat. But I've been doing loader work for 3 years on my gear drive and I hardly see it as a handicap.

 

[WilliamBos]

Thank you all for the info. Now I just need to think of a good reason to tell the wife that I want to by ANOTHER tractor, only a month after buying the gear-drive B7100 (I wish this B7200 HST had come up for sale a month ago....)

I agree with what Chris (Soundguy) said, buy it, and sell one of them, once you decide which one you like better, or figure out enough excuses, I mean jobs to justify keeping both.

I have finally figured out why most married guys don't use their real names on here, so their wives do not find out where all the advice is coming from. LOL!!

Will

 

[artfull dodger]

Time for the bota mechanic's 2 cents. They are both good systems, they both can be repaired, but the HST wont be within the range of your normal shade tree tractor mechanic, it takes some schooling that even I dont have, the head mechanic deals with hydro drive issues. A clutch replacement on a small B series is not to hard, you can split it with jacks and jack stands, we dont even have a splitting stand at our dealer, and we have a good size L series with loader in two sections getting a new 2 stage clutch. I agree for dedicated loader work, a foot control HST cannot be beat. But for day to day simplicity, a gear drive wins hands down in my book, both from a repair standpoint and general durablity. Granted, most of the clutch problems we get, seem to be from people that really have no clue how to operate a tractor clutch properly, what rpm to have the engine at when bringing a PTO driven implment up to speed. And doing it without burning the clutch. HST is like cell phones, you can get along without it, but it can be nice to have it. How many of these newer tractor owners remember a time without the internet, or cell phones ect. Almost all your older tractors, that are now mostly show queens, are gear drive, it was simple, most farmers could split the tractor and replace the clutch in thier barn if need be, or even in the middle of a field for a total failure. Lets see someone rebuild an HST pump in the middle of a field, a good mile off the main road. Aint gonna happen, the tractor will get drug to the road, put on a flat bed and taken to the nearest dealer for some expensive repair work. Most new small Kubotas we sell are HST, that is what John Q. Public wants, operator convience at the touch of a foot peddle, even in the garden tractor line up. Go up to the larger M series and most are gear drives. We live in a time of operator convience, shifting gears and the knowledge of how to properly isnt one of them. I love my gear drive B7100 and wouldnt give it up for a HST drive any day, espicaly after I fight with ones that have issues all day at work! Cheers Mike