How many "TnT" owners

[jenkinsph]

Reggie, I don't seem to have any problems with my "TnT" sets not having any check valves, but then I guess that I am one of the few.

I haven't had problems either.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Steve, some say that we don't have problems because of our larger diameter cylinders, but that theory doesn't hold up. My 3215 has 2" cylinders. So why is it that we don't have the leak down problem that so many seem to have?

 

[jenkinsph]

I looked at your pics and at least your tilt cylinder appears to be the same as mine. Might be a difference in the quality of the cylinders. Not trying to flame anyone either.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

The one on your 4520 looks different to me, but who knows?

 

[dcyrilc]

Steve, some say that we don't have problems because of our larger diameter cylinders, but that theory doesn't hold up. My 3215 has 2" cylinders. So why is it that we don't have the leak down problem that so many seem to have?

I looked at your pics and at least your tilt cylinder appears to be the same as mine. Might be a difference in the quality of the cylinders. Not trying to flame anyone either.

I was contemplating the same thing earlier, and had the same thought as to possibly being an issue of the quality of the cylinder or seals.

 

[DK35vince]

Might be a difference in the quality of the cylinders.

I used cheeper tie rod cylinders for my first set that leaked down.
Better quality cylinders without check valves may have worked better without leakdown. I don't know.
I do like having the check valves though.

 

[kruszert]

Thanks for all the responses - - - I have to admit that I am unsure of what to do at this point. The second set of remotes are on the way - - $234 for my Kioti DK35.

Bailey's sells a ready made top link cylinder with the same dimensions as my adjustable link - - 2 1/2" cylinder, no check valve, $138. Bailey's does not have a side link cylinder and it doesn't look that easy to adapt one of their cylinders without disassembly and welding. I could do it but it would be a mess.

CCM sells a top link with check valves for $195 (2" cylinder) - - not too bad since a check valve assembly will cost you $40 plus you will have to make it an add on with tubing etc.

CCM also makes a custom side link with check valve for $250. This seems a little too expensive but I can't find anyone else on the internet that sells something similar or something that seems readily adaptable (guess that's why they can get $250).

This is going to be an $800 + project by the time I buy hoses and quick connects, etc. Better get my taxes done and the return on the way!

I am still pondering those check valves - - if the cylinder leaks by the piston a check valve will not help but if the valve leaks back, quick connect seals leak or a hose breaks the check valve will come into play. Not sure what to do.

Any other places to buy side sink cylinders?

Reggie

 

[firefighter9208]

My neighbor has a Kubota L5030 with TNT. His does not have check valves and he is constantly having to re-adjust the side link with heavy implements. I would definately buy the cylinders with the check valves for a few dollars more.

Chris

 

[jinman]

Thanks for all the responses - - - I have to admit that I am unsure of what to do at this point. The second set of remotes are on the way - - $234 for my Kioti DK35.

Bailey's sells a ready made top link cylinder with the same dimensions as my adjustable link - - 2 1/2" cylinder, no check valve, $138. Bailey's does not have a side link cylinder and it doesn't look that easy to adapt one of their cylinders without disassembly and welding. I could do it but it would be a mess.

CCM sells a top link with check valves for $195 (2" cylinder) - - not too bad since a check valve assembly will cost you $40 plus you will have to make it an add on with tubing etc.

CCM also makes a custom side link with check valve for $250. This seems a little too expensive but I can't find anyone else on the internet that sells something similar or something that seems readily adaptable (guess that's why they can get $250).

This is going to be an $800 + project by the time I buy hoses and quick connects, etc. Better get my taxes done and the return on the way!

I am still pondering those check valves - - if the cylinder leaks by the piston a check valve will not help but if the valve leaks back, quick connect seals leak or a hose breaks the check valve will come into play. Not sure what to do.

Any other places to buy side sink cylinders?

Reggie

Reggie, I bought the Bailey toplink several years ago and leakdown was no problem whatsoever. What was a problem was the "sponginess" of the cylinder. I made the mistake of using 1/2" hoses about 4' long. Because the cylinder needs so little fluid movement to create 3/4" of rod movement, my cylinder would move 3/4" back and forth as I changed directions while boxblading. It was not air in the lines but rather the lines themselves actually ballooned and allowed the cylinder to move. I could have reduced this problem by going to 1/4" lines as short as possible, but I chose to buy a CCM toplink with the DPOCV. What you will notice immediately with the CCM toplink or the Surplus Center toplink is that the lines from the DPOCV to each end of the cylinder are rigid tubing. That tubing being rigid and sealed to perfection ensures the cylinder rod is rigid and unmovable wherever you put it. It doesn't matter what size hoses you have or if your remote valve leaks a bit. Once you remove pressure, the DPOCV provides a perfect hydraulic lock and the cylinder acts like a solid steel toplink/sidelink.

In my opinion, the sidelink being rigid is not as important as the toplink. The 3PH doesn't have downpressure and can always float upwards. As long as your sidelink doesn't bleed down, you are good to go. On my tractor while mowing, I may have to adjust the sidelink once an hour, but no more than that. When I'm boxblading, I seem to adjust the sidelink a lot due to cutting at an angle and changing directions anyhow. I don't need consistency there.

So, I think the DPOCV on the CCM style toplink cylinders is worth the extra cost. I also know that you should buy top grade hoses and fittings and make sure they are leak free and as short as possible. All these things will add up to making you very happy with your TnT.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Not sure what to do.

Any other places to buy side sink cylinders?

Reggie

For a good hydraulic side link, your going to have to pay $200-$250. Anything else and you might as well build it yourself. That meaning anything else is most likely going to have to be reworked to fit your tractor.

 

[3RRL]

It's usually the valve, not the cylinder that has a slight leak down problem.
At least in my case, from my experience about the DPOCV's, that's where they made a difference. The DPOCV's rely on the cylinder being good, or else fluid could leak past the seals ("O"rings) and the rod could still move in the cylinder housing. I have them on almost all cylinders that need to hold their position, and on one, even with the DPOCV, it still leaks down. That is, on one stabilizer leg of my Nardi Backhoe. The other one is rock solid. So for you guys with good cylinders AND good valves, there may not be a need for them?
These are photos of the DPOCV's on the backhoe stabilizer legs:



I also put them on Loretta's tractor when it was set up for top n' tilt with 2 hydraulic side links, just like mine.
Except she has a (better than mine) Price Stack valve (4 spool) so the valve and cylinders are good. With them being "hard plumbed" on the cylinders, in case a hose ruptures or gets torn off, the cylinder with DPOCV will retain it's position instead of crashing down. Although not as critical in the TNT use as in other uses, it doubles as somewhat of a safety feature.

Here are some photos of her set up with her landscape rake on.
You can see the Jinma has quite a range of tilt with 2 hydraulic side links. Grading the road or other areas are real easy with minor adjustments to the rake or blade while driving along.

 

[jenkinsph]

Good pics thanks.


The wide range of tilt to both sides is what I am working towards.

About the leak down issues, I think alot of the problem is a combination of cheap cylinders and cheap valves. Well made cylinders and valve bodies with highly polished bores, top quality packing and Enduro rod shafts cost more than the cheap stuff. High tolerance fit is a major issue in hydraulics and polishing makes the difference as to how long the equipment will last without starting to wear and then leak. When the fluid under high pressure is pressing the seal or packing against the rod or cylinder bore or valve body bore wear is increased if not perfectly smooth.

You can buy a cheaper item with the same dimensions, rod size and pressure rating (specifications seem similar) but how long it will last and whether it will leak down can vary greatly. Sometimes you can buy a cheap cylinder that works well with no problems but there are differences people should be aware of. Same thing is true of pumps, motors and valves.

 

[mjncad]

Rob:

Do you recall where you got those check valves? I have one on my Surplus Center/CCM top-link and I was able to track it down to an Italian manufacturing company; but the trail went ice cold when I tried to find a place to buy them in the USA.

If I ever get around to a sidelink, I'll have to get a cylinder and fabricate mounting ends for it. A check valve would be a nice finishing touch.

Thanks!

 

[AKfish]

AKfish,
I think my 47 blade is a little heavier than the 45 but not by much. At one time before I wen't back to college I had a 10' all hydraulic blade Cat 3 and a Case 1370 Agri King with duals that thing would cut a ditch.

Anyway I may have to move my blade over as you have done to get more reach, and if that is the case I would be just as well off with the tilt setup I have now. The more you tilt the blade the closer to center it gets, so you have less extention outboard.

This could all be resolved with a more elaborate rear blade but I come up short by one circuit as I have three rear outlets and I would need four outlets for top link, tilt, offset and blade angle.

Hey, hey... I used to run a Case 1470 that had the slickest power-shift tranny! Used it to feed and clean at a beef cattle feedlot. It was a kick hittin' that shifter and the black smoke just rollin'!!

There was a thread on the Kubota forum a year or so back and a fella on there had a power trim/tilt, cruise, etc. etc. rear-blade that would do everything with 4 hyd cylinders. If memory serves - I think he had a splitter on one of the circuits. But, it was an OEM feature from Kubota.. Very impressive.

AKfish

 

[firefighter9208]

OK. I have a question. I was planning on ordering a HTL today from C&C machinery. I have a Kubota M4800 and would use the cylinder with the bushhog and disk. My factory toplink is 21" to 32". Here's my problem: When I completely shorten my top link my disk is only about 6" off the ground. Same with the bushhog. The disk wants to drag and tear up everything when I'm transporting it. I would also like to quickly raise the bushhog when you get into a sticky situation to keep from getting stuck.

When looking at CCM's website I have basically two choices for the HTL: #1: 21"-32" or #2: 18"-26.5" . I know that with the top link 3" shorter I could raise the bushhog or disk higher to transport, but I would be loosing 5 1/2" off the total length.

What do I need to do??? What do you guys have for length???

Chris

 

[jenkinsph]

Hey, hey... I used to run a Case 1470 that had the slickest power-shift tranny! Used it to feed and clean at a beef cattle feedlot. It was a kick hittin' that shifter and the black smoke just rollin'!!

There was a thread on the Kubota forum a year or so back and a fella on there had a power trim/tilt, cruise, etc. etc. rear-blade that would do everything with 4 hyd cylinders. If memory serves - I think he had a splitter on one of the circuits. But, it was an OEM feature from Kubota.. Very impressive.

AKfish

Yeah, mine was a 12 sp powershift, nice tractor it had all the rear remotes too.

 

[jenkinsph]

firefighter,

What I would do is hook up the bushhog and adjust tailwheel ht to your cutting ht, remove top link and then lower the hitch arms to level the mower. I would then measure the distance between the top link pin holes to see which cylinder would work when set to mid stroke. This way you would have a range of adjustment to tilt up or tilt down. Not really an issue with the brushhog but should work the same for rear blade and box blade.

 

[3RRL]

Rob:

Do you recall where you got those check valves? I have one on my Surplus Center/CCM top-link and I was able to track it down to an Italian manufacturing company; but the trail went ice cold when I tried to find a place to buy them in the USA.

If I ever get around to a sidelink, I'll have to get a cylinder and fabricate mounting ends for it. A check valve would be a nice finishing touch.

Thanks!

Matt, indeed I do...
I got them from CCM, Mark to be specific.
He should have extra DPOCV's in stock. Be advised though, that they are Metric and you will have some issues getting them to fit your cylinder. I bought several of them from him but had to make up my own hard line connection between cylinder ports. I believe I have a couple threads on doing that (custom fitting to the cylinders). One was for the backhoe stabilizer legs and the other for Loretta's Jinma. You may need to read through them if you haven't already?
Rob-
Here is the Jinma thread:
New Mods to Loretta's 284 Jinma
Here is the one for my Backhoe stabilizer cylinders start at post #13:
Backhoe Feet

 

[mjncad]

Matt, indeed I do...
I got them from CCM, Mark to be specific.
He should have extra DPOCV's in stock. Be advised though, that they are Metric and you will have some issues getting them to fit your cylinder. I bought several of them from him but had to make up my own hard line connection between cylinder ports. I believe I have a couple threads on doing that (custom fitting to the cylinders). One was for the backhoe stabilizer legs and the other for Loretta's Jinma. You may need to read through them if you haven't already?
Rob-
Here is the Jinma thread:
New Mods to Loretta's 284 Jinma
Here is the one for my Backhoe stabilizer cylinders start at post #13:
Backhoe Feet

Thanks Rob! My Surplus Center top-link cylinder is the same one CCM sells, and the check valve uses BSPP ports. I can easily get BSPP to JIC fittings locally. I will keep CCM in mind should I get around to the side-link.

So many projects, so little time and MONEY!

 

[dcyrilc]

So many projects, so little time and MONEY!

Amen.
It's amazing how a few $5 here, $25 there, and a $50 thrown in can add up to a short paycheck! LOL