Hay Equipment full set

[Robert_in_NY]

Remember that you will want to make a 4' wide windrow for a 4' wide baler. If you fertilize grass hay and have adequate rain, once you start raking beyond 18-20' into a windrow it will be hard to fit all that hay between the 4' opening in the V-Rake. If you have a 5' wide baler then a 12 wheel rake is the limit for grass hay. You see 20+ wheel rakes out west in alfalfa and dry land farming where they get less than 20" of rain a year. In Ohio where you are you get 40-50" of rain you can not use the higher capacity rakes in heavy hay. Also if you do not use any fertilizer you will have lighter hay. There are V Rakes like the Vermeer WR-220 that are 10 wheel rakes but when you get into heavy hay you can fold up the two front wheels and make it a 8 wheel rake. Other brands also have this same rake design.

Do the Vermeer round balers have the super wide pickups on them to help gather in the windrow?

I like the 4' wide round balers here because they make great mulch bales for in the vineyards but 5' wide stacks a lot better. I really did want to buy that Hesston 540 (it was a beautiful, well taken care of machine) I was using but my only round bale market is for mulch bales and even then it is very limited and is a break even type of venture.

 

[HayDR]

Wheel rake? I understand from reading numerous recent TBN threads that rotary rakes are the preferred way to go. Wheel rakes apparently can contaminate the windrow with assorted debris (rocks, etc) while rotaries don't have this problem.

I'm in the market now for a hay rake. Wheel rakes are attractive because of their relatively low price compared to other styles. But, bowing to the experienced hayers on TBN, I'm leaning toward a rotary. Decisions, decisions.

Rotary rakes are premium rakes but you see them used more in alfalfa than grass hay. They make a fluffy windrow. Single rotary rakes are fine for some operators and they are often operators putting up small square bales. You do have some transport issues withe rotary rakes because you will have to dis assemble some of the arms to get the rake width under 10'.

If a wheel rake is set properly and the operator rakes above 5 mph you will have clean hay. What sells a wheel rake is they can rake massive amounts of hay in a short period of time, 10-20 acres an hour and the rake does not cost a fortune. A 20' rotary rake will cost $15-20K. The twin hydraulic driven rake will out last any of the high-capacity rakes.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Rotary rakes are premium rakes but you see them used more in alfalfa than grass hay. They make a fluffy windrow. Single rotary rakes are fine for some operators and they are often operators putting up small square bales. You do have some transport issues withe rotary rakes because you will have to dis assemble some of the arms to get the rake width under 10'.

If a wheel rake is set properly and the operator rakes above 5 mph you will have clean hay. What sells a wheel rake is they can rake massive amounts of hay in a short period of time, 10-20 acres an hour and the rake does not cost a fortune. A 20' rotary rake will cost $15-20K. The twin hydraulic driven rake will out last any of the high-capacity rakes.

Another advantage to the rotary rake is that it will rake up more of the fine grass hays that bar rakes miss.

I do like the style of the rake you pictured but don't they cost as much as a rotary of the same size?

 

[Slippy]

And here's a dump question I'm sure; after you rake the hay, does it matter which way you run the baler over it to pick it up compared to the direction you raked it?

 

[HayDR]

Do the Vermeer round balers have the super wide pickups on them to help gather in the windrow?

I like the 4' wide round balers here because they make great mulch bales for in the vineyards but 5' wide stacks a lot better. I really did want to buy that Hesston 540 (it was a beautiful, well taken care of machine) I was using but my only round bale market is for mulch bales and even then it is very limited and is a break even type of venture.

Yes Vermeer offers wide pickups. The Vermeer Hay-saver wheels work perfect in dry hay and add 18" on each side of the pickup. The wide pickup on a Vermeer baler shown below is just a status symbol that make's the Vermeer dealer more money it is not needed for dry hay. Wide pickups are beneficial in haylage production because the haylage is often mowed with a disc mower conditioner and windrowed so the haylage does not have to be raked. Haylage is heavy and requires a hydraulic driven or rotary rake. A wheel rake and NH 256 style rake has problems raking haylage.

 

[Slippy]

Yea Robert, what he said. The 5410, if I have this right, does not come with the hay saver wheels, but is available as an option that, as the man said, provides a wide pickup.

 

[HayDR]

Another advantage to the rotary rake is that it will rake up more of the fine grass hays that bar rakes miss.

I do like the style of the rake you pictured but don't they cost as much as a rotary of the same size?

The Vermeer R2300 twin rake sells for around $13,000 new. You can open and close the rake from the tractor seat.

It will out last 3-4 rotary rakes. You can vary the speed and pitch with these rakes. This picture below shows the optional center power splitter.

 

[ddivinia]

I have used my truck to pull the bar rake once last year. I needed to flip the hay over quick so the bottom would dry and I brought the rake over via the truck. I couldn't see any point in unhooking and rehooking so I just set the teeth and went to town. My big worry about using a truck is if you have any hay hang up under the truck on the exhaust. The heat will catch it on fire and then I do not see anything good happening from that point on

I buried my old Isuzu Pup one day when I was playing in the mud (back in 96). Well, I was trying to work the truck out and wasn't making much progress but the grass decided to catch on fire underneath the truck. I got nice and muddy crawling under the truck as best I could to pat the flames out with my hand (my dad would have killed me if I let my truck burn up out there )

I hate it when that happens. I was thinking the same thing. My wife wanted to use her Yukon XL, but it sites kinda low. I have a Dodge 3500 4wd - it should clear fine.

D.

 

[ddivinia]

Hay rake is here. The dealer dropped off my used John Deere 704 10 wheel rake with center kicker. I'll get pics soon - has been too cold. Baler will be here tomorrow or early next week!

D.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Thanks Mark, I forgot about those wheels on the round balers.

I have always like that bar rake design since I first saw the NH version. Do you use one and if so have you used it in real light hay? I have always been amazed at how well the rotary can sweep the finer hay up while my 256 with all new teeth couldn't get the small particles. They would fall off and slip thru the teeth. However, I can't justify spending $4-5k for a small single rotor rake or $16k for a Kuhn 6002 just yet. My experiences with wheel rakes were an old 5 wheel New Idea speed rake and a 8 wheel H&S v rake which I spent half a day trying to free it all up as it was brand new and been on the dealers lot for 2 years when I went to demo it on short notice. I put it in the worst possible situation (trying to merge two rows of rained on and heavily matted hay with second growth starting to come up). It failed miserably in that situation and this was when I needed a rake that could merge rows the most (mulch hay). Ever since then I have realized my operation requires a powered rake that can rip the matted hay out of the new growth without extra work. The cost is why I am still running my paid for NH 256. Someday I will get a nice rake to merge two 9' swaths as it gets old going back and forth with the 256 to merge.

Then again, if I can't get enough help unloading wagons I am going to be out of this business

 

[rambler]

Mickey FX, never saw a rake like you pictured, thanks for that!

Here in southern MN, alfalfa is king, grass hay is just road ditches, waterways, field roads, and other waste land.

Never really seen a tedder working, rare machine here. Everyone uses a conditioner, mostly sickle moco/ haybine, more are getitng discbines now. Used to, and still see, a seperate conditioner pulled after the sickle mower.

Only seen 2 impeller conditioners in my life - we do alfalfa here.

Only once in my life have I been able to cut, rake, & bale hay in the same day. Typically takes 3 days here, 4 often better - this is grass hay without conditioning. I think Skipper is in for a lot more days of being in the field than he thinks.

I find cutting hay right before, during, or after a rain gets me into a window where it will dry before the next rain. If you wait until it's dry, you won't have enough days to get it dry before it rains again. First cutting anyhow. It always rains.

Here all the grass gets 2 cuttings, alfalfa gets 3 heavy or 4 good cuttings.

Check soil ph (don't need to 'here' but most places do), and add fert to build those soils back up. If you are going to go through all the work, might as well be producing something off all those acres.

Very interesting thread, lot of good folks with good info!

--->Paul

 

[Slippy]

Rambler: nice to see you join in. Yea, as I said before, I always underestimate, meaning things always take longer than I plan. But thats ok. Again, I don't have to do it all myself, and don't plan to the first year anyway.

 

[chh]

The wheel rakes work fine if the grass is not extremely heavy. I have used/been around them since the mid 80's and for the price they can't be beat. The only way they would attempt to drag more trash than any other rake is you had it adjusted to dragging the ground very hard. IMO. The Vermeer powered rake CCI shows in his pics is a really nice rake. I haven't used one, but have watched ones custom operators have used around me. They will literally rake anything no matter how heavy.
Slippy I doubt you want to go wider than a 10 wheel rake. I got an H S V-10. I used to run and 8 wheel on a 5' wide baler and it worked pretty good on it most of the time. A 10 seems like a better all around rake for most conditions though. We have if the grass was running too heavy in patches just eased the wheels over onto the already raked ground to keep the size where we wanted it. Its kind of a quick trick that is not really the right way as opposed to adjusting the rake, but it works.

 

[Slippy]

So are you saying with a 10'6" cutter and 4' baler, you suggest 8 wheel or 10 wheel?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Only seen 2 impeller conditioners in my life - we do alfalfa here.

--->Paul

I wonder why they don't like impellers for alfalfa

It is hard to find good alfalfa ground here. Any well drained soil is already into a vineyard so finding a field here is very hard and when you do it is very expensive

 

[chh]

So are you saying with a 10'6" cutter and 4' baler, you suggest 8 wheel or 10 wheel?

We have been using 9' cutters and the 10 wheel rake. In the practical sense I don't know that it would matter what size cutter you use vs. rake size. If the ground is uneven I could never stay aligned perfectly on the swath lines anyway.
On the wheel rakes the other disadvantage with them is that they don't rake well in a 90 degree corner. We generally rake 2 passes around a field then rake back and forth thru the rest of the field. Lifting the rake at each end. I don't like turning that sharp with a baler, even if the new ones have a CV drive line, so I always skipped a row in the turns and worked across a field like that. I was always told to rake the direction you mow and to bale following the rake. I have never been able to see any difference either way with round bales. If you prefer to follow the rake you can rake an X across the field at the end to to catch all the corners. I have done that and it make the field a lot cleaner. I prefer the staight line approach though.

Price is the big reason nearly everyone around here uses a wheel rake. A 10 MF(a rebadged HS) runs $3850 on the dealers price board right now. Most of the custom balers use them over the powered rake because of the price and there is almost zero maintenance in one for a long time.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

On the wheel rakes the other disadvantage with them is that they don't rake well in a 90 degree corner.

You have fields that are square

I am lucky if I have 2 square corners on any one field. It makes raking very interesting. Corners are where a powered rake will shine as the rake keeps raking where as ground driven rakes slow down in corners.

 

[chh]

You have fields that are square

I am lucky if I have 2 square corners on any one field. It makes raking very interesting. Corners are where a powered rake will shine as the rake keeps raking where as ground driven rakes slow down in corners.

Most actually are pretty square. 2 aren't, my wife hates one of them, you can actually get "lost" trying follow the windrows on it.

On the blade sharpening, I checked up some on it and the Fella mowers we used last year also don't recommend sharpening the blades. We did anyway and usually a set got sharpened 4 to 5 times per side. That would be 10 to 12 days use the way we cut. Blades last spring(who knows now) were about $3 each.

When I posted swaths earlier today, that is disc mower cuts, not thru a discbine or haybine.

One other thing about the V style racks on a cart. The have a very light tongue weight. I can pick one up without a jack and hook it up. If you store or leave one in a field with the rakes up in the transport position, esp. if the locks or pins are in, they are very easy to steal. Easier than your round baler even. It is not uncommon to hear of either one coming up missing around here. I try to leave rakes and tedders folded out and everything out of site of public roads when parked.
When I purchased my rake last fall I towed it home from the auction. It towed very well on our rough highways at 45 to 50 mph. When I brought the baler home last Tuesday it was the same way. It bounced a little if you got over 55 mph but other than that it was a breeze.
Just something to think about. Mine is covered now under my ranch insurance.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

The problem with sharpening the blades is that grinding heats the blade up and that weakens them making the blade more capable of breaking off and possibly injuring someone.

Theft of hay equipment isn't very big here. I park my equipment either in my barn, behind a barn or near a house. The only places I leave equipment in the field are on my friends property so they keep an eye on things for me.

I have fields you can get lost on also. One is a triangle (that field is terrible to rake), the other large field has one 90 then it travels every which way. It runs up against the track and follows the curve making one corner a pain to rake around. I do like you do in that I double up the outside 6-8 swaths then go up and down the rest of the field. I need more room on the end since I am pulling a kicker baler and wagon and do not like turning tight with that rig. The triangle field is terrible on the sharpest point. If I buy this farm (like I am hoping) then I am putting up a large storage barn there to get rid of the sharp point and make haying the rest easier. The horse track in the middle is what makes a lot of my problems but if I buy that farm it will make a wonderful half mile go cart track for Ava

 

[gf5205]

I wonder why they don't like impellers for alfalfa

It is hard to find good alfalfa ground here. Any well drained soil is already into a vineyard so finding a field here is very hard and when you do it is very expensive

Impellers are much harder on the leaves. They are great for grasses. You can get the Kuhns and probably other makes with rollers or impellers.
Greg