Hay Equipment full set

[chh]

250 acres is going to be a chore if you try to do it by yourself. My wife and I do it together, early on it was myself and my father. We have worked the last two years with a neighbor that had all the equipment and used our 2 tractors and one of his. When we got rolling(never really happened last year due to weather). I would mow around 20 to 25 acres a day (9' mower) and my nieghbor would put the second mower on his baler tractor to get us started or if we shut down for several days. Once I got a feild ahead it my wife would come in about 11 to 12 the next day and start raking. The neighbor would generally start the baler up around 2 or so. None of this was extremely thick hay, so we only teddered when it was very thick or got rained on. With 3 tractors in the feild it goes pretty fast. This years plan is based back on our old pattern. 2 tractors mowing one day, drop the mowers off, hook to the rake and baler and bale the next day. If I can get the customers lined up(I'm working on it and making progress) we plan to do over 300 acres this year per cutting. Some will be cut only once and part of it twice.
The way it generally worked for us 8 hours cutting= 4 hours raking= 4 hours baling(this is not exact but a good general rule of thumb for us).
You can't always guess the weather. This last year we had a good 3 or 4 day window according to the forecasts to knock out a feild of early hay. 8 days after I mowed it we finally got it rolled up. It was pretty much trash by then but if we didn't get it up it would have been in a later cutting. It's like my old daddy used to say though "Ya can't bale it standing".

On our drying times though slippy remember I am quite a bit south of you and most likely in a different grass type and drying situation.

If anybody out there still needs hay. I've still got about 100 round bales I'd like to sell. Of course so does everybody else in this part of OK.(Some more, much more!)

 

[ddivinia]

It will be a lot of work. I am planning on breaking my pastures up into manageable chunks. I have not bought m y mower, but I am thinking 10' 6" on a mower caddy. That extra 14" will make a huge difference.

On the raking, I was thinking I could set the rake up on my truck. (yes, I have 2 tractors but I bet I could get my wife to rake with the kids in the truck with the AC on- only have 1 cab tractor).

Cut, her rake behind me, then I can start baling.

D.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

Have been watching this thread with interest. Been many yrs since I had a small custom haying operation. My experience is dated but may be of help anyway.

For a mower I used a Heston PT7, a sickle bar design mower conditioner. The new MF/Heston sickle bar model look similar. Takes a lot less power for these over one of the rotary models that are common today. The mower came with 2 sprockets for adj the reel speed. With the higher reel speed I could mow at about 5 mph. Tractor and reel speed have to be matched to max speed and min power needs. Too fast or too slow ground speed for the reel would make BIG impact on needed power and qlty of cut. My MF65D had more than enough power for this mower. Had a 2nd sickle I kept with new sickle sections. Don't think I had to use more than 2 sets of sections a yr. Stub guards were a must to keep from having the sickle get plugged up at times. In this area 1st cutting is always a crap shoot weather wise and could find myself cutting anything including clover (as tall and heavy stemed as alfalfa) which was common in this area. A mower conditioner was a must.

For rakes, on 1st cutting and either alfalfa or clover, a conventional side delivery rake was disaster as they would rope the cutting and make drying almost impossible. I had 2 rakes, a 2 row, 4 rotor tedder and a "conventional" rake made by Madds-Amby, which was a design that swept the hay straight sideways without twisting. It could also serve as a tedder if the side forks were left off (see pic for a sim design). Most of the time the tedder never had to come off the trailer. With the Madds design I've taken hay that had been rained on and was flat as a board. Made a single pass and had windrows standing 2-3 ft high.

For a baler, I had a new JD sq baler with the hyd chute squeeze to help maintain consistent bail weight. Sq bales are still king in this area. Didn't care for the JD baler and had lots of problems. When working well, it could push a lot of hay out the back.

1st cutting was typ a 4 day affair to get the cutting dry enough to bale. My std service was cut, turned the rows mid-day on 3rd day and baled on 4th day after morning dew had dried off. If weather didn't cooperate, more effort and time was needed. I also had a moisture meter to help with judging dryness. If the weather gods weren't cooperating I also had a sprayer on the baler I could spray the hay and mixture prevent spoilage from baling in otherwise too wet of a condition (think the stuff was called Hay Saver). First customer I had to use the spray on took some to the local fair and walked away with a blue ribbon. Someone asked about how much can you bale in a day, one day I bailed 40T spread between 3 customers. That was with an older baler, wire, and it was giving me fits on the first field. With the New JD baler I was spiting out a 50# bail about every 10-12 strokes (80 strokes/min @ rate pto speed) on a decent yielding 1st cutting. Typ yields around here are about 4T acre.

One more thing, I always took a weather radio with me, let the customer listen to the forecast and let them make the decision whether to cut or not. I did try and limit the amount of hay being down so I felt good about being able to get it bailed if the weather started turning for the worse.

Hope there was some useful info in my ramblings.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

It will be a lot of work. I am planning on breaking my pastures up into manageable chunks. I have not bought m y mower, but I am thinking 10' 6" on a mower caddy. That extra 14" will make a huge difference.

On the raking, I was thinking I could set the rake up on my truck. (yes, I have 2 tractors but I bet I could get my wife to rake with the kids in the truck with the AC on- only have 1 cab tractor).

Cut, her rake behind me, then I can start baling.

D.

I have used my truck to pull the bar rake once last year. I needed to flip the hay over quick so the bottom would dry and I brought the rake over via the truck. I couldn't see any point in unhooking and rehooking so I just set the teeth and went to town. My big worry about using a truck is if you have any hay hang up under the truck on the exhaust. The heat will catch it on fire and then I do not see anything good happening from that point on

I buried my old Isuzu Pup one day when I was playing in the mud (back in 96). Well, I was trying to work the truck out and wasn't making much progress but the grass decided to catch on fire underneath the truck. I got nice and muddy crawling under the truck as best I could to pat the flames out with my hand (my dad would have killed me if I let my truck burn up out there )

 

[mark.r]

Great information (and stories Robert keep it coming.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Great information (and stories Robert keep it coming.

I'm here to entertain

 

[chh]

For more fun get hay stuck up in a u joint on your trucks driveline. I saw an old man do that on our place one day. He was the rake hand(the custom balers oldest brother) and grumpy as he could be. He had something break down and had to walk across a feild to his truck(around a 70 chevy). That really put him in a mood, so he drove across the windrows. The hay got caught and started building up. He didn't stop until the truck wouldn't move any farther. Needless to say the language got a little colorfull about then. An hour or so under the PU with a pocket knife and he was ready to drive again.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

For more fun get hay stuck up in a u joint on your trucks driveline. I saw an old man do that on our place one day. He was the rake hand(the custom balers oldest brother) and grumpy as he could be. He had something break down and had to walk across a feild to his truck(around a 70 chevy). That really put him in a mood, so he drove across the windrows. The hay got caught and started building up. He didn't stop until the truck wouldn't move any farther. Needless to say the language got a little colorfull about then. An hour or so under the PU with a pocket knife and he was ready to drive again.

That would suck. I dispised the old 489 Haybine because the rubber was coming off the rollers and every now and then the hay would wrap up on it. So I had to crawl under it and cut the hay off both rollers. I started carrying a larger and much sharper pocket knife to make shorter work of that task. It was going to cost a lot more money to fix the rollers then the machine was worth so I got rid of it and bought my Gehl discbine that has a rollers still but is individual pieces of rubber sandwhiched together instead of one big sheet stuck to a piece of steel.

 

[Slippy]

This thread has been one of the most substantive threads I have read. Thank you to all, and humor is nice too!

Of course I will under estimate the job, thats just what I do. And I greatly appriciate the sound advice...but, one of the reasons I am doing this now myself is because I have 4 kids, and two of them are now the age that they want to become active on the property, spend more time (I think) with Dad, and make some money. Sure, they could find a 5-6 dollar an hour job doing meaningless stuff, but I want to not only spend time with them, but teach them what I know, which isn't much, teach them what you all know, which is a lot, and teach them about operating a business. So, the reminder from Mark that this is a business is very true.

I checked out the Vermeer stuff today at the suggestion of Mark. I am impressed. The 5410 looks like it would meet my needs, but the 504m Classic seems to be better built, but of course more money.

Yea, this will be a lot of work. Thats why I am thinking about still hiring out about 1/2 the land and trying the rest my self for the 1st year. That way I can be working while the guys who know what they are doing are working. I can watch, and if I have problems, I can bug them to help me. Plan to probably cut the grass myself as I see it as the highest risk part of the operation, the boys can be on the other tractors, one tedding and one raking, and they can also run the baler once we both learn how to do it. And of course, everyone can help get it moved and stored. And like I have said before, I think if I buy quality stuff, and decide against it later, it can be sold. I also want good stuff for the safety as well.

For those that have a Vermeer, is it likely that if I got the 5410 Reble, I will be wishing I got the 504M Classic?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Well as long as you can keep your sons in the hay field when you need them and not chasing skirts you will be fine

I know you know this already but make sure you lead by example with your kids in regards to safety. Always shut off the pto, put the tractor in neutral and lock the parking brake before you hop out of the tractor. There are so many bad things that can happen if you slip or get tired towards the end of the day and get a little careless. Once you have the habbit going you find it second nature and hopefully your kids will to.

 

[Slippy]

Right...no question about it...always always always safety first.

 

[chh]

I used to own a 504 Super I. I think it was more like the Classic than the Rebel series and it was a great little baler. I'm not a Vermeer expert though.

Are you going to get net wrap on it?

 

[Slippy]

Yes, that is my plan at this point.

Are all conditioner mowers pull type, and 3pt mowers are without conditioners?

 

[chh]

Page 2 of this thread Cummingluke has a link to 3 pt. mower conditioner. So they are available. Personally I have never seen one. If I was going to do much with a discbine I think I would to with a towed one. I looked at a Krone Discbine they other day while I was looking at their mowers. I think it was a 16' cut, it was one nice machine, but a little out of my league.

 

[Slippy]

I have spoken now to JD dealer and Vemeer dealer and find all their equipment very nice. Do have another question though that the dealers seem to disagree on. A Vemeer 840 conditioner mower will cut a 10'6" swath but will lay it down between 36" and 78" so Im told. One dealer is telling me I need a 12 wheel rake to gather it in, and one is saying 8 wheel wr20 Vemeer will do the trick. Which one is right?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I am not familiar enough with wheel rakes to be able to advise you too well. But if you use a tedder you are going to spread the hay out further so if you can get an adjustable rake that will allow you the option to adjust the width of raking depending on your conditions you will be set (just make sure you get one wide enough to rake 20-21' (if you are using a 10.5' cutter)

Also, I can't remember but I thought I read somewhere that New Hollands discbine lay the widest swath in the industry. Check out how wide the cutters you are looking at and use that to help compare. The wider the swath you lay the faster the drydown.

 

[HayDR]

I have spoken now to JD dealer and Vemeer dealer and find all their equipment very nice. Do have another question though that the dealers seem to disagree on. A Vemeer 840 conditioner mower will cut a 10'6" swath but will lay it down between 36" and 78" so Im told. One dealer is telling me I need a 12 wheel rake to gather it in, and one is saying 8 wheel wr20 Vemeer will do the trick. Which one is right?

Remember that you will want to make a 4' wide windrow for a 4' wide baler. If you fertilize grass hay and have adequate rain, once you start raking beyond 18-20' into a windrow it will be hard to fit all that hay between the 4' opening in the V-Rake. If you have a 5' wide baler then a 12 wheel rake is the limit for grass hay. You see 20+ wheel rakes out west in alfalfa and dry land farming where they get less than 20" of rain a year. In Ohio where you are you get 40-50" of rain you can not use the higher capacity rakes in heavy hay. Also if you do not use any fertilizer you will have lighter hay. There are V Rakes like the Vermeer WR-220 that are 10 wheel rakes but when you get into heavy hay you can fold up the two front wheels and make it a 8 wheel rake. Other brands also have this same rake design.

 

[HayDR]

The wider the swath you lay the faster the drydown.

This is an old man's tale and a legend that is not true if you are tedding the hay. You will not dry hay down if the ground under the hay has more moisture on the surface than the hay. By windrowing the hay you do two things:

1. You bring the hay in so you do not run on the cut hay as much when you are mowing the next round.
2. It allows the ground to dry quicker because there is not any hay holding the surface moisture under the hay.

You actually will get a more even drying down of the hay if it the hay is windrowed a little and then tedded. This does not apply in the high desert like areas where there is very little ground moisture.

The HayDR

 

[Slippy]

Ok good. Now here's what I'm thinking, Vermeer 5410 baler, Vermeer MC840 conditioner mower, wr20 Vermeer rake and still need to pick tedder but probalby H&S 4 basket tedder. Vermeer will give a little deeper discount if I get 2 or 3 products of theirs. Some body talk me out of this, or into it.

Did talk to JD dealer today and they now say 458 baler w/o net wrap, $14,500. Don't know how much more the net wrap will be.

 

[flusher]

I have spoken now to JD dealer and Vemeer dealer and find all their equipment very nice. Do have another question though that the dealers seem to disagree on. A Vemeer 840 conditioner mower will cut a 10'6" swath but will lay it down between 36" and 78" so Im told. One dealer is telling me I need a 12 wheel rake to gather it in, and one is saying 8 wheel wr20 Vemeer will do the trick. Which one is right?

Wheel rake? I understand from reading numerous recent TBN threads that rotary rakes are the preferred way to go. Wheel rakes apparently can contaminate the windrow with assorted debris (rocks, etc) while rotaries don't have this problem.

I'm in the market now for a hay rake. Wheel rakes are attractive because of their relatively low price compared to other styles. But, bowing to the experienced hayers on TBN, I'm leaning toward a rotary. Decisions, decisions.