Hay Equipment full set

[HayDR]

This is true but the danger is still there so hopefully people realize that these things are still dangerous. I know Empire Farm days ropes off the area before they do the field demos of the self propelled discbines so everyone is a good distance away from potentially flying objects. Once they are done cutting they allow us to see the results up close.

Do you ever make it up to EFD?

By all means pedestrians should stay a safe distance away from any disc mower or rotary cutter in operation. The question started out concerning the safety of the operator.
I stay so busy that I usually go to the National Farm Machinery show(KY), World AG Show(CA), Sunbelt Show(GA), and sometimes the 4 State(KS) as well as some International shows in Turkey, Italy, Spain, & Germany. The Empire Days Show is in the middle of the TN, NC, VA, KY & WV second cutting of grass hay and I'm usually covered up with sales. I know it is a good show but it happens at a bad time for me to go.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

By all means pedestrians should stay a safe distance away from any disc mower or rotary cutter in operation. The question started out concerning the safety of the operator.
I stay so busy that I usually go to the National Farm Machinery show(KY), World AG Show(CA), Sunbelt Show(GA), and sometimes the 4 State(KS) as well as some International shows in Turkey, Italy, Spain, & Germany. The Empire Days Show is in the middle of the TN, NC, VA, KY & WV second cutting of grass hay and I'm usually covered up with sales. I know it is a good show but it happens at a bad time for me to go.

Well, if you ever do make it up to Empire Farm days please let me know.

I was only trying to make sure people reading this thread were aware of the fact that the 3pt disc cutter is still dangerous. Something that comes to mind is the idiots who use their riding lawn mowers with the shield up and blow all the stones and grass at the cars passing by on the road. The guy on the mower doesn't get hit but everyone else does.

Take care.

 

[Slippy]

That suggestion to go with a discbine w/o conditioner was made to me by CCI as well. That extra day of dry time if needed could be important to me in my area though. I really like the idea of cutting, raking and baling all in the same day with a mower conditioner. I would have to experiment with how much I could get done in a day, but that means I can get a certain number of acres done in one day, and not be wedded to doing hay again the next day. Yes, the conditioner mower is going to be more money, and I may not even need it depending upon the weather...but my major approach to this is that I do not want to be held hostage by the weather or the market. Cut, rake, bale and sell when I want, not when the conditions tell me I have to. Maybe I am expecting too much here, and no matter what it won't be perfect, but if I hit it say 75% of the time, I think the time value of money and my time would be worth it. Heck, I can always sell the equipment. The barn on the other hand is permanent.

 

[chh]

Slippy on your question about the quick change Vermeer blades, Krone also offers that as an option. I have talked to a couple of dealers, but I can't get and answer on how well the quick change holds up to dirt and rocks.(my basic worry on them) The Krone dealer I talked to today had a discbine with those on it but hasn't sold one yet with it. The Krone 3 pt. mowers I looked at today looked really good. They have done away with the belts to transfer power to the cutter bar. Also looked at Rhino mowers. They are about a $1000 cheaper and look it. Much lighter made.

Robert, we hit a lot of gopher hills in the area of Oklahoma and the soil is pretty sandy. Sharpening or flipping blades daily is required. If I am not mistaken most disc mower manufacturers discourage sharpening blades, but it is customary around here.

The NH 658 baler I was looking at fell out of the running yesterday. I called to ask a couple of questions about it and had to talk to another salesman than the one when I looked at it Saturday. I got a completely different story on the machine and was told it was a 6000 bale machine instead of a 3000 bale and the price was higher. Both salesmen claimed they traded for it. This is a large JD dealership that I have had trouble with in the past(they are a major part of the reason all my tractors are MF). Their claim that it was always shedded didn't really match the appearance of the paint either.

I did run across on Fastline over the weekend the same model as the original baler I first looked at. A '07 Hesston/MF 2746A listed as a demo. The dealership's owner used it on his own property. Discounted $4,000 with a full warranty since it was never sold. I had to make a little over an hours drive to look at it. They Hooked the bailer to a new MF tractor, plugged the monitor to power and gave me a full demo of it running. I brought it home. I also agreed to purchase 2 of the Krone 9' mowers.

 

[Slippy]

Chh: hey good for you. What size bales does it make? Net wrap?

 

[mark.r]

Somebody went on a shopping spree today. Nice.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

That suggestion to go with a discbine w/o conditioner was made to me by CCI as well. That extra day of dry time if needed could be important to me in my area though. I really like the idea of cutting, raking and baling all in the same day with a mower conditioner. I would have to experiment with how much I could get done in a day, but that means I can get a certain number of acres done in one day, and not be wedded to doing hay again the next day. Yes, the conditioner mower is going to be more money, and I may not even need it depending upon the weather...but my major approach to this is that I do not want to be held hostage by the weather or the market. Cut, rake, bale and sell when I want, not when the conditions tell me I have to. Maybe I am expecting too much here, and no matter what it won't be perfect, but if I hit it say 75% of the time, I think the time value of money and my time would be worth it. Heck, I can always sell the equipment. The barn on the other hand is permanent.

I would not expect to be able to cut and bale in one day in Ohio. I do not farm in Ohio but you are not that far away so I think you will be looking towards 3 days unless you are going with a preservative system on your baler. Where I am I normally have a 4 day bale requirement because of how close I am to lake Erie. If there is not much humidity (which doesn't happen often up here this close to Lake Erie) then I can get by with 2-3 days depending on the sun, breeze and humidity.

 

[chh]

4x6 bales with net or twine. The 2746A is a full auto baler. You never shut down the PTO to dump a bale. It has a hydraulic clutch and does it all itself. I took my wife along and she was sold the second he gave the price and said "full warranty". She will be running one of the mowers and is a #1 rake hand. So part of this was for her.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Slippy on your question about the quick change Vermeer blades, Krone also offers that as an option. I have talked to a couple of dealers, but I can't get and answer on how well the quick change holds up to dirt and rocks.(my basic worry on them) The Krone dealer I talked to today had a discbine with those on it but hasn't sold one yet with it. The Krone 3 pt. mowers I looked at today looked really good. They have done away with the belts to transfer power to the cutter bar. Also looked at Rhino mowers. They are about a $1000 cheaper and look it. Much lighter made.

Robert, we hit a lot of gopher hills in the area of Oklahoma and the soil is pretty sandy. Sharpening or flipping blades daily is required. If I am not mistaken most disc mower manufacturers discourage sharpening blades, but it is customary around here.

The NH 658 baler I was looking at fell out of the running yesterday. I called to ask a couple of questions about it and had to talk to another salesman than the one when I looked at it Saturday. I got a completely different story on the machine and was told it was a 6000 bale machine instead of a 3000 bale and the price was higher. Both salesmen claimed they traded for it. This is a large JD dealership that I have had trouble with in the past(they are a major part of the reason all my tractors are MF). Their claim that it was always shedded didn't really match the appearance of the paint either.

I did run across on Fastline over the weekend the same model as the original baler I first looked at. A '07 Hesston/MF 2746A listed as a demo. The dealership's owner used it on his own property. Discounted $4,000 with a full warranty since it was never sold. I had to make a little over an hours drive to look at it. They Hooked the bailer to a new MF tractor, plugged the monitor to power and gave me a full demo of it running. I brought it home. I also agreed to purchase 2 of the Krone 9' mowers.

First off, congrats on the new baler and mowers. I looked at a Krone 9' with flail conditioner a few years ago but it was more money then I wanted to spend at the time. I have always liked Krone and Claas as they make great hay equipment.

How low are you cutting with your cutter? I seldom scrape ground unless I find a ridge or the occasional chuck hole.

 

[HayDR]

I would not expect to be able to cut and bale in one day in Ohio. I do not farm in Ohio but you are not that far away so I think you will be looking towards 3 days unless you are going with a preservative system on your baler. Where I am I normally have a 4 day bale requirement because of how close I am to lake Erie. If there is not much humidity (which doesn't happen often up here this close to Lake Erie) then I can get by with 2-3 days depending on the sun, breeze and humidity.

Slippy you better listen to someone else because you will not be able to mow rake and bale in the same day unless you are wrapping the bales for silage. It will take grass hay 2-3 days.

Typically you will mow in the morning, tedd the next morning, tedd the next morning and rake & bale that afternoon. This is usually how it goes on the first cutting of grass hay but it could take another day due to conditions. The second cutting you may reduce your normal drying time by one day but that too depends on the conditions. Grass hay should be baled in the 12-18% moisture range. When you cut the hay it is 60-70% moisture unless it is drought conditions. It just is not possible to get hay down to 12-18% moisture all in the same day.

 

[chh]

We generally leave a 3" to 4" stubble. Closer than that it takes too long to come back out. Almost no one uses a discbine here. Most all mowers are 3 point 9' and 10' bars. A lot of the guys are putting the mowers on caddies now to make hookup easier, but everyone I've talked to locally runs into the same problem. In areas will some sandstone rock laying around its worse.
The gopher hills on top of the fact that none of this ground has been farmed for years so it isn't very smooth. The mowers I've used recently are pretty good on an open tractor. The Vicon's we used 15 to 20 years ago were notorious for filling your right ear with dirt off of gopher mounds if you didn't have a cab. I'm not sure what the difference is between them in that respect, but the blade wear was the same then as now.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

It sounds like you guys need to rework your hay fields and remove the gophers. I leave a 4" stubble and have revamped 50 acres the last couple years with another 70 to go over the next couple years.

I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way and I hope I don't come across as such but when I put new blades on I can cut 100 acres with minimal problems in terms of blades. Usually a couple blades will get dinged but the overall cut quality doesn't get affected very much. My blades are around $7 each and I use 14 of them so it would not be cost feasible to swap them very often.

 

[ScottAR]

Been following this thread as making hay is a curious crop for me.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but when looking at haybine/discbine machines, the main differences besides the obvious cutting action seems to be
the method of crimping or conditioning the hay.

The MF/Hesston brochure shown above lists three methods.

Rubber rolls: Softer action I'd guess for leafy stuff? Probably more fragile than the other options?

Steel rolls: More aggresive but probably more durable to rocks etc? For stalky plants?

Flails: I'm guessing the most aggresive for waxy stuff like maybe bermuda?

Are any of these processes more versatile or stricly for certain crops?

Am I pretty well on track or off course? Thanks in a advance...

 

[Robert_in_NY]

The flails I have never used but my understanding is they are great for just about everything you don't have to worry as much about leaf loss (don't use them in alfalfa).

As for Steel on Steel, Steel on Rubber or Rubber on Rubber, that is all user preference. Some people believe Steel on steel is better for a slightly faster dry down, others say there is no difference. I think it comes down to a selling tactic but I only have experience with rubber on rubber conditioners.

 

[chh]

Robert, feild renovation is in the works for me. I wish they was a way to get rid of gophers. treatments will get a lot of them but once you stop treating they come back in.

Slippy, down here in Oklahoma on prarie grass hay you can cut and bale in the same day in late July and early August. Good bermuda or heavier grasses will take at least a day. Spring hay is many times a 2 day dry, if we don't get a thunderstorm on it.

 

[Slippy]

So...if I am likely to have to cut day one, and ted day two with baling in p.m. on day two, if it is a dry time, how does a mower conditioner help me here? I got all the info on what it does to the grass/hay, crimp etc., but does that mean I will have better quality hay? Just trying to determine if by going with a mower conditioner, I will be saving any time by not needing to ted, or possibly ted less. And...how many acres can one expect to get up in 3 good weather days? How do you plan this? For example, if weather looks good for 5-6 days, cut all you can day one. I have read that the best time to cut hay is in the a.m. because the grass will have more sugar content in the a.m. I guess what I am asking is what is the play book here for getting up the hay? I understand there will be many variables, and adjustments will be made, but overall, what is the fundamental concept that is trying to be achieved?

ScottAR: welcome to the discussion, thats what there for. I can only pass on what many have told me here on this board and what I have read in lit from various universities that have done research. I think the first question, and one that I think I am asking above, is...is there really a benefit to having a conditioner mower to start with? You need more tractor, which means more fuel costs. If you get to the point that you want that, then you have to choose from impeller or roller. Seems to be a persoanl preference, which to me means you need experience, which I don't have, so must gather info. Most seem to suggest that impeller is not good for leaf type hay, it will get knocked off. So if you go with the rollers, from there it also seems to be a personal preference. Do a google search on "hay storage" and you will find a bunch of stuff, and check out the University of Kentucky's web site.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Robert, feild renovation is in the works for me. I wish they was a way to get rid of gophers. treatments will get a lot of them but once you stop treating they come back in.

Slippy, down here in Oklahoma on prarie grass hay you can cut and bale in the same day in late July and early August. Good bermuda or heavier grasses will take at least a day. Spring hay is many times a 2 day dry, if we don't get a thunderstorm on it.

Up here we have woodchucks (I am not sure if they are similar to your gophers). It has always worked well to plow a field up and that will get rid of them. Plow it one year and that will remove most of them (put it into a corn or soybean) and then plow it up the next year and put back into hay and the wood chucks are gone. Then if you only have a few come back it is a lot easier to keep them under control.

I have always liked planting Corn into a hay field. It gives me great yields, then the next year I plant the ground to oats and after oats it goes back into hay. The oats go to the local feed mill and the straw goes to the barn. If the field is in good shape you can no till your hay seed into the oat stubble.

 

[HayDR]

Slippy,
There is a difference in legume crops and grass hay. Alfalfa does benefit from using conditioner. Also realize Alfalfa is not the dominate hay crop in the USA. USDA statistics have alfalfa acreage as 27-32% of hay harvested. In the South, Alfalfa is less than 5% of the acreage harvested. You go to Iowa and alfalfa is 90% of hay harvested. Take into consideration where the information is coming from. You are going to be harvesting mostly grass hay so you need to weigh those responses.

We harvest 800+ acres of grass hay a year. We are harvesting the same hay you mentioned. We used to use disc mower conditioners but we found out 20 years ago that a disc mower and a tedder will put hay up just as quick if not quicker than a discbine alone. You can use small more efficient tractors and have less money invested if you use 3 point disc mowers. Remember it is a business.

50 million head of cattle are in herds of 50 head or less. This means ther are mega amounts of smaller operations that do not have 100 HP tractors and they are using on average 40-80 HP tractors to harvest hay. Less than 25% of the smaller operators are using mower conditioners.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

So...if I am likely to have to cut day one, and ted day two with baling in p.m. on day two, if it is a dry time, how does a mower conditioner help me here? I got all the info on what it does to the grass/hay, crimp etc., but does that mean I will have better quality hay? Just trying to determine if by going with a mower conditioner, I will be saving any time by not needing to ted, or possibly ted less. And...how many acres can one expect to get up in 3 good weather days? How do you plan this? For example, if weather looks good for 5-6 days, cut all you can day one. I have read that the best time to cut hay is in the a.m. because the grass will have more sugar content in the a.m. I guess what I am asking is what is the play book here for getting up the hay? I understand there will be many variables, and adjustments will be made, but overall, what is the fundamental concept that is trying to be achieved?

You do not need a mower conditioner and it all depends on what you want to do. I have customers asking for alfalfa. I also have some grass crops with thick stems. From my standpoint I bought a cutter that would do what I needed now and in the future. If I would have just had a disc cutter then when I planted my alfalfa last year I would have been looking for a conditioner/crimper which means spending more money and having another machine to maintain. It is all a preference thing. If you don't ever see doing any alfalfa in your future or any thick stemmed grasses like canary then just by the disc mower.

Haying is a lot of work and if you expect this to be easy you should walk away now. Hay is going to need help drying down. A tedder is vital in my area, it stirs the hay and spreads it and brings the hay from the bottom up to the top so air can circulate around it. Each night the hay is going to settle and if you get any dew it will mat the hay down tight. I ted at least two times like CCI said. The only time I don't is if there is very little moisture in the grass.

You can not plan haying, the weather people can tell you there is 6 days of great weather coming up then after you cut 20 acres they change the forecast to show rain on day 3. You need to learn how to predict the weather so you do not have to rely on others. At the very least compare and average multiple sources for the weather forecast.

Also, you do not want to cut more in one day then you can pick up on day 3 or 4 depending on your baling cycle. If there is cloudy weather and cooler days it is going to take longer to dry the hay down. But if you cut 30 acres (which is a long day for a 9' cutter) you will want to get it picked up as soon as possible. The longer the hay sits on the ground the lower the quality. Of course if you pick it up too early you have other problems.

This is why I have said before (I think I said it in this thread) to not cut all of your land the first year. The first year is the hardest as you are learning a lot in one year. I really do not know how one person is going to manage 250 acres. When the weather is good you need to be cutting and you need to keep cutting the next day if you have a window open in the weather. With a 9' cutter as I said, 30 acres at a fast clip is a long day still. This means you are going to have to cut for 8 days just to get first cutting in. (7 days if you go up a size in your cutter). While you are cutting you need someone else out there tedding and raking and possibly baling if the window is still open. The tedder is vital to hay up here, get one as big as you can, 6-8 rotors will let you get done a lot faster and the faster you get the hay fluffed the faster it will dry.

If money was no object I would get at least a 12' cutter, 8 rotor tedder, a Kuhn rotary rake that can do two single or merge 36' of hay at once and as high a capacity baler you can and one that requires very little stopping. The most important thing is a comfortable tractor so that you can stay out there for long hours.

I really do think you are underestimating the amount of work involved in this and I hope you do not regret sinking the amount of money into equipment to do the acerage you are trying for.

One other idea I have, buy a 9' cutter, 4 rotor tedder, Kuhn 6002 rake and a good baler and see how it goes. You will have a full time job trying to get first cutting off with this setup but if you see what you are expecting then you can add a second cutter and tedder and hire a helper. This way you have backups if one breaks down. I would still get a high capacity baler though.

Please feel free to keep asking questions and hopefully we can answer them for you. I enjoy these topics.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

We harvest 800+ acres of grass hay a year.

Mark, do you have any pictures of your hay operation? I always enjoy seeing pictures of tractors and equipment and your operation sounds like it has a few of each