Hay Equipment full set

[Robert_in_NY]

For 250 acres I would want a 12' discbine (NH works for me), a 24' or 36' tedder (to ted two or three swaths at once (Vicon is what I prefer)), a Kuhn double rotor rake that can rake two seperate swaths or merge two into one, and I can't help you with the round baler as I have very little knowledge of them.

I am not a fan of wheel rakes as they are limited. A rotary rake cost a lot more money but does a great job of flipping the hay and picks up a lot more of the crop then a bar or wheel rake will ever do.

In your situation if I could sell everything I cut then I would bale all 250 acres but as soon as you are done with your final cutting I would rent out 50 acres for a year and start a 5 year rotation (corn grows great on sod ground). If you can work it well you would get a decent rent for your 50 acre chunk without having to invest in tillage equipment. Just leave it in your lease they have to put the ground back into a hay field. You can cut them a little slack depending on the rate but if you get a good tenant he can help you out a lot and you will have fresh fields. You can even have different crops planted in the sections if you had a request.

 

[Slippy]

Pull or 3pt discbine?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Pull or 3pt discbine?

It would be a pull type center pivot.

 

[ddivinia]

Sickle type cutters have always been easier on hp requirements then disc cutters. The disadvantage to sickle cutters like a Mo/Co and Haybine is that you travel slower. They are good in alfalfa though and for small operations that don't have the hp to handle a pull type discbine.

I also here that maintenance is a lot easier on disc mowers vs. sickle. All my dealer sells is disc mowers I think.

D.

 

[ddivinia]

For 250 acres I would want a 12' discbine (NH works for me), a 24' or 36' tedder (to ted two or three swaths at once (Vicon is what I prefer)), a Kuhn double rotor rake that can rake two seperate swaths or merge two into one, and I can't help you with the round baler as I have very little knowledge of them.

I am not a fan of wheel rakes as they are limited. A rotary rake cost a lot more money but does a great job of flipping the hay and picks up a lot more of the crop then a bar or wheel rake will ever do.
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Wheel rakes are very popular down here. I bought a used John Deere wheel rake to do bermuda. I hope it works out good.


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your lease they have to put the ground back into a hay field. You can cut them a little slack depending on the rate but if you get a good tenant he can help you out a lot and you will have fresh fields. You can even have different crops planted in the sections if you had a request.

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What kind of hay?

Around here almost nobody turns the land back to hay fields. At the end of the lease, you get stubble. That can get very expensive.

Also, it can take some real time to get good hay. In many cases it can take multiple years to get a really good stand of coastal bermuda.

D.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I also here that maintenance is a lot easier on disc mowers vs. sickle. All my dealer sells is disc mowers I think.

D.

It is. I change my blades on the discbine every spring. It takes about an hour but I am good to go the full season. When I used the haybine you would have a tooth break at least once or twice a season. When this happened you had to shut down (time is money) and get the tools out and repair the tooth while avoiding the reel and also playing in all the juices from the hay. So when you were done your hands were nice and green and hopefully you didn't bust any knuckles and only got jabbed by the teeth on the reel a few times.

I like the haybine because of the reel. It gave you something to watch. However, I never plan on going back as my discbine is so much faster and easier. I can change the blades when it meets my schedule.

The downside to a discbine is if it breaks down it will be more expensive to repair. So far I have not had any breakdowns except for a broken link in a roller chain that wasn't too hard to fix.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

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What kind of hay?

Around here almost nobody turns the land back to hay fields. At the end of the lease, you get stubble. That can get very expensive.

Also, it can take some real time to get good hay. In many cases it can take multiple years to get a really good stand of coastal bermuda.

D.

Each area is different. Depending on his area and what his customers want he can set up a crop rotation plan with someone who would want to rent his field. He can give the tenant a great deal on the rent if he puts it back into a hay crop that they discuss ahead of time. But if his fields are not that good right now I do not see what he has to lose in this. It will be easier then buying all the tillage and planting equipment to cover his land and then be parked. After 5 years he could inspect the first field and if it is holding up well wait a year or two and start the rotation again.

In some area's they are paying crazy rent prices for good corn ground. If he has a decent area where there is good competition for ground he can set his own stipulations. Where I am the contracts all state the ground is to be returned to the way it was before the tenant put a plow to it. If it was a grass field then they have to return it to a grass field.

Who knows, if he can get the high rent prices it might be better for him to rent all his land out for a few years and use that money to buy his hay fleet. Then you are playing in the black from the start instead of the red

 

[Slippy]

More cattle than horses, but one of my customers that will buy 100 bales next year is a horse owner.
For a number of reasons, crops are not an option.
Grass is mostly timothy, fescue and clover.
Have u seen the Vermeer 5410 that has the quick release blades?

 

[chh]

Well I don't have any experience with discbine's at all, so I can't comment on them specifically. Here in OK I raise bermuda and praire type hay and and the conditioner is not generally needed as we can get it dried down fast enough on it own. I do like the disc style mowers over sickle ones myself though. With the types of soils we have and the gopher mounds generally the blades need to be sharpened or flipped once a day. I use a light angle grinder to sharpen them. Kuhn(makes John Deere), Vermeer, Fella and New Idea(also sold as MF) all make good mowers that I am familiar with. Prices on them on the same size mower is within $1000 or so. New Idea being the cheapest around here and Fella the most expensive. There are other companies also but I am speaking of brands I have here with close dealers. The disc mowers allow you to cut much faster across a field and are almost uncloggable.
I have and for the most part, have used the V style wheel rakes. If the hay is not too heavy and dry they do a pretty fair job for a fairly low initial cost. Heavy hay requires a powered style rake to get it all though. I have an H S V-10 (they make MF/New Idea). New cost on it locally is $3800 to $4500 depending on the dealer. JD and Vermeer(Tonuti) are similar in price and style. I got mine last fall (6 months old and used very little) for $2500 in an auction. There are larger and smaller models available. The companies also have some very large models available than rake quite a bit wider but are aimed mainly to large commercial operations.
I have been baler shopping around for the last couple of months. Around here JD is very popular(and very overpriced on the used marker IMO). Vermeer, New Holland(Case IH), and MF/New Idea(Hesston) all seem to be solid choices also. A new JD 468 locally is $32,000($30,000 cash) preseason priced with all the options. That same size(4x6) net wrap baler is $27,000 to 29,000 from the other 3 on their top end model new. MF/New Idea has a 1700 series baler that is not built as heavy and is meant for smaller producers. The net version of a 4x6 in it is around 20 to 21 grand new. It doesn't have near as many bells and whistles but seems like a good machine for what is is meant for. 250 acres a year would be not sweat for it.

You can go thru listings in Tractorhouse and Fastline and find quite a large selection and price range on used machines. I am trying to keep in a brand that has a close dealer. The NH 658 I mentioned in an earlier post is a 2001(they think) and is priced at $14,500. That model here ranges from $10,500(couple of years older and higher bale count) to around $15,500. A JD 467 around that age is running locally anywhere from $18,000 to $21,000.

The dealers locally are still in the winter pricing mode. Within the next month or so a lot of new equipment is going to be hitting all the dealers inventory and 2008 pricing will arrive with it.

Honestly all the major manufacturers have been making balers a long time and I don't think there is actually a "bad" baler model in their current lineups or in their recent production if it has been properly maintained and stored. There are some odd brands out there and used you can find some great prices on them. Parts and dealer support may be another story though. Amoung them is Gehl, Vicon, M&W, Kvernland, Class and Krone. Some of those are very popular in europe but have never really got established here.

 

[chh]

More cattle than horses, but one of my customers that will buy 100 bales next year is a horse owner.
For a number of reasons, crops are not an option.
Grass is mostly timothy, fescue and clover.
Have u seen the Vermeer 5410 that has the quick release blades?

I like the look of the quick change blade system. I don't have any feedback from anyone though on how well it holds up and I don't have a local Vermeer dealer anymore. I looked at them at a farm show in December and it seems like a very good machine.

 

[Slippy]

The more I research the hay equipment the more I think there are many good ones out there. I suppose a more important question is local dealers and service. There is a huge JD dealer very near my farm and so there is merit in looking hard at their product. However, I must say when I compared tractor prices, the JD stuff was way higher than many others I looked at and bought. I do have a IH 1086, so was thinking that if I went with Case IH baler, I could have them go over equipment at beginning of season.
I will keep shopping.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

With the types of soils we have and the gopher mounds generally the blades need to be sharpened or flipped once a day.

What are you doing that requires the blades on a discbine to be sharpened or flipped once a day The only way I could see it is if you are hitting a lot of dirt and stones and if that is the case a plowing is in order. My ex's family had hundreds of chuck holes in their hay fields so I spent a lot of time picking them off. After that season the entire field (60 acre) was plowed under and put into corn for a year.

The blades on my Gehl are not suppose to be sharpened because of the heat generated by the grinder will weaken the blade. You flip them and then replace them.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

More cattle than horses, but one of my customers that will buy 100 bales next year is a horse owner.
For a number of reasons, crops are not an option.
Grass is mostly timothy, fescue and clover.
Have u seen the Vermeer 5410 that has the quick release blades?

I don't have a Vermeer dealer close by here and have never seen a Vermeer cutter in my area. It is CNH, Deere and Gehl (but Gehl is no longer and these cutters are being replaced as they get older).

 

[mark.r]

Is the industry standard that all three point hitch model disc cutters require a cabbed tractor such as the larger discbines do? For example, MF has nice small 5.5ft 30 pto hp unit that I wouldn't mind trying as opposed to a MF/NH haybine/conditioner mainly for transport reasons. Furthermore, from my research most of the grasses that I see advertised in my area of VA are native/Timothy/Fescue so based on comments posted by CCI I could get by with a disc mower, tedder, rake, baler. I may need an extra day dry time but . . .

Secondly, how do the Haymaxx units stand up to 50-100 acres or so per year?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Is the industry standard that all three point hitch model disc cutters require a cabbed tractor such as the larger discbines do? For example, MF has nice small 5.5ft 30 pto hp unit that I wouldn't mind trying as opposed to a MF/NH haybine/conditioner mainly for transport reasons. Furthermore, from my research most of the grasses that I see advertised in my area of VA are native/Timothy/Fescue so based on comments posted by CCI I could get by with a disc mower, tedder, rake, baler. I may need an extra day dry time but . . .

Secondly, how do the Haymaxx units stand up to 50-100 acres or so per year?

Anytime you use a discbine or disc cutter you should have a cab tractor preferably with a screen over the side and back windows. You can do it without though and I have used both. So far I have never had anything come thru the cutter shield yet and hopefully never will.

 

[ddivinia]

Anytime you use a discbine or disc cutter you should have a cab tractor preferably with a screen over the side and back windows. You can do it without though and I have used both. So far I have never had anything come thru the cutter shield yet and hopefully never will.

You have that right. I have broken out 2 rear windows of my 5525 with flying debris from my batwing. I went with an impact resistance window and put a steel screen on the back. I should be good now.

D.

 

[mark.r]

You have that right. I have broken out 2 rear windows of my 5525 with flying debris from my batwing. I went with an impact resistance window and put a steel screen on the back. I should be good now.

D.

I was just going to say why do they recommend/insist on a cab for a disc mower/discbine but not for brush cutters/flail mowers. What about drum mowers? Furthermore, some of the smaller disc cutters like the MF unit or the Haymaxx units are clearly designed for smaller tractors that typically don't have cabs (i.e. 30 pto hp)? My DK45 doesn't have a cab, clearly not the safest set up but if want to cut hay and NOT use a haybine where does that leave me.

By the way the knowledge that you guy bring is addictive. I have gone from thinking that I could not cut hay without buying a larger tractor to understanding that I can produce a significant number of square bales for my boarders with my 45hp tractor in a matter of days. Amazing.

 

[HayDR]

3 point disc mowers are safer than pull-type disc mowers. The tire is blocking the direct angles of any thrown debris with 3 point disc mowers. Pull-type mowers are back behind where the mower have a direct angle to the cab. We have sold thousands of disc mowers over the last 30 years and not had the first person hurt sitting on the tractor from thrown debris. Disc mowers are safer than rotary (bush hog style) cutters and the industry insurance statistics prove this out.

 

[mark.r]

3 point disc mowers are safer than pull-type disc mowers. The tire is blocking the direct angles of any thrown debris with 3 point disc mowers. Pull-type mowers are back behind where the mower have a direct angle to the cab. We have sold thousands of disc mowers over the last 30 years and not had the first person hurt sitting on the tractor from thrown debris. Disc mowers are safer than rotary (bush hog style) cutters and the industry insurance statistics prove this out.

Ah, yes very good information . . . and it makes sense too. CCI, not go off to far on a tangent but was there another thread or if people don't mind can you talk about the Haymaxx variants a bit. I looked on you website and you guys being in TN and me in VA makes me even more interested for additional details and pictures.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

3 point disc mowers are safer than pull-type disc mowers. The tire is blocking the direct angles of any thrown debris with 3 point disc mowers. Pull-type mowers are back behind where the mower have a direct angle to the cab. We have sold thousands of disc mowers over the last 30 years and not had the first person hurt sitting on the tractor from thrown debris. Disc mowers are safer than rotary (bush hog style) cutters and the industry insurance statistics prove this out.

This is true but the danger is still there so hopefully people realize that these things are still dangerous. I know Empire Farm days ropes off the area before they do the field demos of the self propelled discbines so everyone is a good distance away from potentially flying objects. Once they are done cutting they allow us to see the results up close.

Do you ever make it up to EFD?