Tractor Sizing GUIDE: Shopping/Sizing A Tractor (Development version)

[jeff9366]

Keep it fact based and let the TBN community fill in the gaps with experience.

PRECISELY




Non-disputable, T-B-N ?

 

[2ndhalf]

PRECISELY




Non-disputable, T-B-N ?

:laughing: true

 

[jeff9366]

WORKING DRAFT (1)​

GUIDE: Shopping/Sizing A Tractor

The best way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine how much bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish your tasks. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites.

For most tasks greater tractor chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. This tractor fundamental is difficult for people new to tractors to comprehend.

Hillside work demands more tractor weight than flat land work. Heavier tractors have greater wheel spread making them more stable. Heavier tractors have larger wheels and tires better able to bridge holes, ruts and logs in the woods. Larger wheels and tires provide a smoother ride over rough ground. Heavier tractors have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements. Heavier tractors have greater inertia resisting rollovers when moving heavy loads in the FEL bucket, the most hazardous of routine tractor tasks, especially hazardous on rough or sloped land.

Tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are offered in one configuration. Most, such as the high volume kubota standard L series, are prosaically equipped to hit competitive price points. Others, such as the Yanmar YT235 and Kubota B2650/B3350 series, include productivity and operator comfort upgrades as standard equipment.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are operated in residential applications on one to five fairly flat acres. These "residential tractors" fit in a typical garage.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration, on a common chassis. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you have to pay. Many are too tall to fit in a typical garage, even with ROPS folded.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range.

I like to spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

It takes a 50% increase in tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider, implements for a heavier tractor is a pain and often a big hit in depreciation. ((Ask me how I know.)) Some who buy too light tractors buy too light implements.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, is a priority for me; less so for others, well experienced with tractors, who do their own maintenance. For most new to tractors a quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment.

Horsepower is a primary consideration only operating PTO powered implements.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[jeff9366]

Heavier tractors have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements. Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks.

Hillside work demands more tractor weight than flat land work. Heavier tractors have wider wheel spreads making them less laterally unstable. Rear wheel spreads are variable for width. Heavier tractors have larger wheels and tires better able to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs, yielding a smoother, less disturbing, passage over rough ground.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are offered in one configuration. Most, such as the high volume kubota standard L series, are sparely equipped to hit competitive price points. Others, such as the Yanmar YT235 and Kubota B2650/B3350 series, include enhanced productivity and comfort components.

 

[MossRoad]

WORKING DRAFT (1)​

Horsepower is a primary consideration only operating PTO powered implements.

Engine HP can also affect how fast your hydraulics respond, how much power you can push into a pile with your FEL, how much of a load you can pull, how large of a plow you can pull, how fast you can transport increasingly heavy loads of material over a distance, etc... none of those tasks use a PTO.

Perhaps you should differentiate between engine and PTO HP.

 

[jeff9366]

I want to focus on researchable bare tractor weight and SAFETY.

Relative to tractor selection for newbies, no one suggests START HERE, with bare tractor weight, then proceed to secondary decisions, such as horsepower, tires, etc.


Everyone can still contribute, filling in gaps.

 

[jeff9366]

WORKING DRAFT (2)


GUIDE: Shopping/Sizing A Tractor​

The best way to shop for tractors is to list your tasks first, then determine how much bare tractor weight you need to SAFELY accomplish your tasks. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites.

For most tasks greater tractor chassis weight is more important than tractor horsepower. This tractor fundamental is difficult for people new to tractors to comprehend.

Heavier tractors have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements. Greater mass of heavy-chassis tractors increases tractor stability when transporting loads in the FEL bucket, the most rollover prone of routine tractor tasks. Heavier tractors have larger wheels and tires better able to bridge holes, ruts and downed tree limbs, yielding a smoother, less disturbing passage over rough ground.

Hillside work demands more tractor weight than flat land work. Heavier tractors have wider wheel spreads making them less laterally unstable. Rear wheel spreads are variable for width.

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.

Tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are offered in one configuration. Most, such as the high volume kubota standard L series, are sparely equipped to hit competitive price points. Others, such as the Yanmar YT235 and Kubota B2650/B3350 series, include enhanced productivity and comfort components.

Most tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight are operated in residential applications on one to five fairly flat acres. These "residential tractors" fit in a typical garage.

Tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are generally offered in a utilitarian configuration and a deluxe configuration, on a common chassis. Deluxe kit enhances productivity and operating comfort ~~~ but you have to pay. Many tractors over 3,000 pounds bare weight are too tall to fit in a typical garage, even with ROPS folded.

It takes a 50% increase in tractor weight before you notice a significant tractor capability increase. It takes a 100% increase in tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling light implements in order to buy heavier, wider, implements for a heavier tractor you take a hit in depreciation. Passing time with multiple browsers is a pain. ((Ask me how I know.))

A quality dealer, reasonably close, is a priority for me; less so for others, well experienced with tractors, who do their own maintenance. For most new to tractors a quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important. My kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment.

Horsepower is a primary consideration only operating PTO powered implements.

BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR.​

 

[jeff9366]

Safe hillside operation demands more tractor weight than flat land operation. Heavier tractors have wider wheel spreads making them less laterally unstable. Rear wheel spreads may be decreased or increased.

 

[MossRoad]

If you really want to do a tractor noob a favor, you'll point them to this thread, and make them realize that if they are like 95% of homeowners, they're looking at the wrong tool...

Compact Tractors are Designed All Wrong
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...s-designed-all-wrong-post51412.html#post51412

Its a good read. Might give you some more things to chew on.

 

[4570Man]

Re: GUIDE: Shopping/Sizing A Tractor (development version)

The arguably better designed tractors replacements would be either a compact telhandler or a skid steer. They’re both expensive and use very expense attachments. The skid steer isn’t nearly as ground friendly as a tractor. The tehandler isn’t very compact compared to a compact tractor. Either machine looses big time to a equal hp tractor for mowing grass judged by area covered.

 

[Rock Crawler]

Jeff,

The fatal flaw that I see in your attempt to help new folks is that you instruct them to consider task and then you instruct them to consider weight of units to perform those tasks... but you do not help them connect A to C with the major question..... B!

B would be a simple and generalized list of common (sub)/compact tractor uses and a typical recommended weight split with a response for on flat ground (less than 10° slope) and another for in hill country (greater than 10° slope). This way a person who reads your verbiage will see the appropriate questions to be asking, get some sort of general idea of weight class that would targeted at the planned uses, and then using that chart... they can go and begin searching brands/models available to them that fit at least within reason to the recommended weight class.

So explain as you do, but then list out something like:

Recommended minimum bare tractor weights for a given task

Task To 10° Above 10°
Mowing 1400lbs / 1800lbs
Snow Blower 1400lbs / 1800lbs
Snow Plowing 2000lbs / 2400lbs
Ground Engaging 2600lbs / 3000lbs
Light Loader Work 1400lbs / 1800lbs
Loader Digging 2000lbs / 2400lbs
Commercial Loader 2800lbs / 3200lbs
Home Backhoe Use 1600lbs / 2000lbs
Commercial Backhoe 2800lbs / 3200lbs
Driveway Maintenance 2000lbs / 2400lbs
Blah..Blah.. Keep going.

My weights are purely fictional, as I do not farm or really use my tractor for more than my own yard/trail maintenance and for moving clean fill that I am getting dumped on my property. You would need to pull input from experienced users to assist in building a realistic list of minimum recommended weights, and explain that while the list is min recommended, typically heavier is better and conversely a lighter unit can be used to do most tasks but with less satisfactory results.

I would also explain that loading tires should be able to added to base tractor weight and not counted as ballast for the sake of meeting the manufactures recommended ballast to be used while employing the FEL. Explain that rear hanging ballast provides stress relief of the front axle while using the loader as recommended by the manufacturer, and that this occurs by utilizing the rear axle as a fulcrum point while adding fluid to rear tires does nothing to assist in this. So fluid filled tires/wheel weights enhances safety and traction, but in no way replaces the need for the manufactures min recommended ballast.

That would be my 2 cents.

 

[Citydude]

In agreement with all so far. However, tractor width can be enhanced with rear spacers for slope stability making tractor weight less of a factor. Tire selection is also a consideration for slopes. Ag tires vs industrial tires for instance.

 

[jeff9366]

My GUIDE needs to be succinct. I am limiting it to bare tractor weight.

Otherwise MEGO by tractor-newbie-readers. (My Eyes Glaze Over)

Posts by additional respondents refreshes attention.

So~~~~~ Add on as thou wilt.

I will be adding on too.

 

[Rock Crawler]

I get your point about short and sweet, but I really think that a person like me has no idea whatsoever how to apply your article to any practical use without qualifying to me (the noob you are trying to talk to) what weight I need. Your not giving me enough information to be useful, you talk about buying weight for a task, but I have no idea what weight for what task. So may as well delete the entire thing. Remember, I DO NOT KNOW... I am a noob. So if I read your statement, I learned... what? That weight plays a part in a chosen task? Great. But I am shopping tractors, not words. What weight? I've got visions, dreams and aspirations to do all of these things.... based on your article I can assume that that "heavy" to me BX23S will do everything I ask of it... right? I'm a noob and I know nothing, so what the heck. It's in my price range. It must be what I need.

Do you see what I am saying? You are targeting folks that do not know what they do not know. People that are tractor savvy already understand the things you are eluding to. To a new shopper of a first tractor, your on the path to making a great and informative "sticky post", but I would not fear eyes glazing over when there is more basic level information needed to support the narrative of the words you have already written. My opinion is that you have not yet filled me in as a tractor noob so that I can wander away from your article with some sort of idea and direction on where to start my search. As it is now, you provided me with enough information that I can start asking questions that I would have had to ask regardless.

I hope I am not coming across as arguing. I'm just a very fresh and new tractor owner and reading your words lets me see what your attempting to do, but I think that like often happens when people are deeper into a subject as you likely are, you forget that you have to drop down to level zero and build me up one step at a time if you wish for me to be able to start asking the right questions and to avoid me asking such low level and basic questions that you roll your eyes as you mutter "here it goes again" to the 5,000 noob posts about what tractors they should shop. Put me in a ballpark...a weight class.... at least give me a direction to head off in.

 

[4570Man]

Jeff,

The fatal flaw that I see in your attempt to help new folks is that you instruct them to consider task and then you instruct them to consider weight of units to perform those tasks... but you do not help them connect A to C with the major question..... B!

B would be a simple and generalized list of common (sub)/compact tractor uses and a typical recommended weight split with a response for on flat ground (less than 10° slope) and another for in hill country (greater than 10° slope). This way a person who reads your verbiage will see the appropriate questions to be asking, get some sort of general idea of weight class that would targeted at the planned uses, and then using that chart... they can go and begin searching brands/models available to them that fit at least within reason to the recommended weight class.

So explain as you do, but then list out something like:

Recommended minimum bare tractor weights for a given task

Task To 10° Above 10°
Mowing 1400lbs / 1800lbs
Snow Blower 1400lbs / 1800lbs
Snow Plowing 2000lbs / 2400lbs
Ground Engaging 2600lbs / 3000lbs
Light Loader Work 1400lbs / 1800lbs
Loader Digging 2000lbs / 2400lbs
Commercial Loader 2800lbs / 3200lbs
Home Backhoe Use 1600lbs / 2000lbs
Commercial Backhoe 2800lbs / 3200lbs
Driveway Maintenance 2000lbs / 2400lbs
Blah..Blah.. Keep going.

My weights are purely fictional, as I do not farm or really use my tractor for more than my own yard/trail maintenance and for moving clean fill that I am getting dumped on my property. You would need to pull input from experienced users to assist in building a realistic list of minimum recommended weights, and explain that while the list is min recommended, typically heavier is better and conversely a lighter unit can be used to do most tasks but with less satisfactory results.

I would also explain that loading tires should be able to added to base tractor weight and not counted as ballast for the sake of meeting the manufactures recommended ballast to be used while employing the FEL. Explain that rear hanging ballast provides stress relief of the front axle while using the loader as recommended by the manufacturer, and that this occurs by utilizing the rear axle as a fulcrum point while adding fluid to rear tires does nothing to assist in this. So fluid filled tires/wheel weights enhances safety and traction, but in no way replaces the need for the manufactures min recommended ballast.

That would be my 2 cents.

I don’t think there’s is a chart as cut and dry as that. What if I only wanted a 3’ bushhog. Pretty much any tractor would work. What if I wanted to upgrade to a batwing. What if I wanted to plow my 50 foot driveway that had a foot of snow on it. What if I wanted to be the guy that plows the road across a Montana mountain pass in the spring. What if I wanted to plow my 1/4 acre garden with a single bottom plow. A Kubota L2501 is probably enough tractors. The fact that it takes a long time doesn’t seem so bad. What if I had 1000 or 10000 acres to plant. I could continue down the list but I’m sure you got the point.

 

[Rock Crawler]

I don’t think there’s is a chart as cut and dry as that. What if I only wanted a 3’ bushhog. Pretty much any tractor would work. What if I wanted to upgrade to a batwing. What if I wanted to plow my 50 foot driveway that had a foot of snow on it. What if I wanted to be the guy that plows the road across a Montana mountain pass in the spring. What if I wanted to plow my 1/4 acre garden with a single bottom plow. A Kubota L2501 is probably enough tractors. The fact that it takes a long time doesn’t seem so bad. What if I had 1000 or 10000 acres to plant. I could continue down the list but I’m sure you got the point.

Then what you are saying is that entire thing is useless information? If you can not generalize a standard task... not reaching for the outliers, we can all make up exceptional situations that do not fit generalities.... than the point of the entire article is null and void. It helps no one and offers nothing. It is a bunch of words in a post that makes Jeff feel good about himself, but it offers no true help to the new-to-tractors shopper who plans to buy a unit to do some basic tasks.

 

[4570Man]

In short yes I think the generalised chart is pretty useless. What’s a basic task? Move some dirt with the FEL, drag a scraper up and down a driveway, prep your 1/4 acre garden, mow some grass with the mmm, and move some loose firewood in the bucket. That’s not hard work and virtually any tractor cab do it given enough time. Now what’s the scale of the project. Do they live on 5 acres or 100. All of that is before they impose a minimum load for the FEL to lift. Now does this guy want to get the choirs done and home to his family as quickly as possible or is he retired and doesn’t really care how long it takes?

 

[airbiscuit]

Weight vs. frame size = tomato/tomauto. To a large degree, they correlate. My preferred differentiator is frame size, especially because they have larger diameter tires and greater traction (look at the difference between a 25hp sub-compact vs 25hp CUT).

I absolutely commend your quick start decision guide for newbies because they are often swayed first by horsepower. So, they would be well served by a quick start decision guide, whether it be based by weight or frame size. I also think there is an important second step, which is to go to a dealer and look at the different frame sizes side by side, test them out, and ask the dealer how they would perform different tasks better or worse than one another.

I do like how John Deere separates its tractor series:

Series Frame Size
1XXX CUT
2XXX Small Frame CUT
3XXX Mid Frame CUT
4XXX Large Frame CUT

So I would advise the newbie to go to a John Deere dealer first (even if they prefer a different brand), and familiarize them selves with these different weight/frame sizes. Then they can expand their search to other brands. :2cents:

 

[2ndhalf]

I'm sensing a tractor sizing app is needed; I'm half kidding but half serious. I think if we are going to look at the Jeff guide on all the new tractor shopper posts it is going to need a proper name.

I think that there are so many variables that I see come on this site with new new tractor shoppers it is really hard to build a chart that encapsulates them all. I do think

Step 1. Build a list of tasks you wish to do with your tractor
Step 2. Post your list along with your budget on TBN (Read the Jeffism page)
Step 3. Watch the TBN Onslaught of opinions - This is the manual work around to not having an App. TBN App.
Step 4. Go sit on some of the models you learn about
Step 5. Take as long as you can do decide
Step 6. Buy Enough Tractor!

 

[airbiscuit]

My GUIDE needs to be succinct. I am limiting it to bare tractor weight.

Otherwise MEGO by tractor-newbie-readers. (My Eyes Glaze Over)

Posts by additional respondents refreshes attention.

So~~~~~ Add on as thou wilt.

I will be adding on too.

How about this much detail as a reference?

Acreage.. Deere.......Frame........................................Weight..R4 Tire Size
1-3 acres ........1xxx.........SCUT.................................................1,450..........26x12x12
3-5 acres,....2xxx .......Small Frame CUT.....................2,450.......14x17.5
5-10 acres..3xxx ......Mid Frame CUT...................2,900......15x19.5
10 acres+..4xxx ...Large Frame CUT.....3,770...17.5x24