Ford 1210 Lift Fail

[RocketMan2024]

Hello all. I am new here but been reading all about some of the problems with this Ford and all have been helpful in solving some issues. Very informative. However, i have a problem with my Ford 1210 Lift. It wont lift up.
A little background here. I inherited this machine and it starts and runs fine. 3 CY diesel and it is good overall shape. The lift would actually lift to any height but just would not stay there very long, ie 0ne minute and it would be on the ground. I was able to determine the lift piston seal was bad by the posts on this forum. I tore it apart and the seal was just in tiny pieces trapped in the piston grove. So i had to pay an exorbitant amount of money $57 + shipping for a new seal SBA050309016. I just installed it and NOTHING. it wont raise or even move.
So question is , what did i do wrong or is there something i overlooked? Is there a checkball/valve somewhere i missed?
I actually installed it based on the instructions i found on this site. Nothing to it, just install with the lip towards the pressure chamber, ie head of the piston.
Maybe somebody out there has done this with the same results? Please let me know.

 

[JC-jetro]

Seal is a double lipped nylon variety and should be installed in correct orientation. The lip should face the lift cylinder head where the oil pressure and flow comes. The lip expand some against the cylinder wall to hold the pressure, rater than leaking in to rear diffy housing.


You can non-destructively take the cylinder head off , retrieve the piston for inspection. The only bad thing it is almost impossible to remove the old seal and re-orient without damage to the seal. soaking it in warm water might help some.

 

[arto98607]

Hello all. I am new here but been reading all about some of the problems with this Ford and all have been helpful in solving some issues. Very informative. However, i have a problem with my Ford 1210 Lift. It wont lift up.
A little background here. I inherited this machine and it starts and runs fine. 3 CY diesel and it is good overall shape. The lift would actually lift to any height but just would not stay there very long, ie 0ne minute and it would be on the ground. I was able to determine the lift piston seal was bad by the posts on this forum. I tore it apart and the seal was just in tiny pieces trapped in the piston grove. So i had to pay an exorbitant amount of money $57 + shipping for a new seal SBA050309016. I just installed it and NOTHING. it wont raise or even move.
So question is , what did i do wrong or is there something i overlooked? Is there a checkball/valve somewhere i missed?
I actually installed it based on the instructions i found on this site. Nothing to it, just install with the lip towards the pressure chamber, ie head of the piston.
Maybe somebody out there has done this with the same results? Please let me know.

Sorry to hear your 1210 trouble.

I wonder why did the seal go bad?
Ford 1310 operator manual calls trans/hydr. oil change every 300 hours

I changed the transmission oil yesterday on my 86 Ford 1310 and it took close to 6 gallons of Ford 134 spec or equivalent oil (12-speed synchromesh manual transmission).

All seals are still original and there has never been any leaks...

 

[RocketMan2024]

Seal is a double lipped nylon variety and should be installed in correct orientation. The lip should face the lift cylinder head where the oil pressure and flow comes. The lip expand some against the cylinder wall to hold the pressure, rater than leaking in to rear diffy housing.


You can non-destructively take the cylinder head off , retrieve the piston for inspection. The only bad thing it is almost impossible to remove the old seal and re-orient without damage to the seal. soaking it in warm water might help some.

View attachment 881839View attachment 881838

Thanks for the input. Yes, i installed that seal exactly as you show it in the pic above. It did fit tight and i agree removing it would be a expensive mistake. I just can not understand why it wont lift now. It was working before i tore it down, it just would not stay up. Now it wont even budge. While i had the head off i cranked the engine and it was pumping fluid out as it should. Maybe the pressure is too low? Going to find a pressure gauge and test it. BTW. I measured that new seal so if i need one in the future it can be bought on Ebay for less than $10. Here is the size: 48MM x60MM X7MM. Had i known the correct size before i would have bought it before paying that jacked up price.

 

[RocketMan2024]

Sorry to hear your 1210 trouble.

I wonder why did the seal go bad?
Ford 1310 operator manual calls trans/hydr. oil change & suction filter cleaning every 300 hours

I changed the transmission oil yesterday on my 86 Ford 1310 and it took close to 7 gallons of Ford 134 spec or equivalent oil (12-speed synchromesh manual transmission).

All seals are still original and there has never been any leaks...

Those seals are good for about 30 years and then they seem to just disintegrate, LOL. AM going to look at the pump today and maybe change the fluid out as well. Hoping the filter is just plugged up and not the pump broke. Maybe i can use an alternative fluid, gonna check it out.

 

[arto98607]

Correction to my post #3 above :

The suction filter should be cleaned every 100 hours & oil change every 300 hours.

 

[JC-jetro]

Those seals are good for about under30 years and then they seem to just disintegrate, LOL. AM going to look at the pump today and maybe change the fluid out as well. Hoping the filter is just plugged up and not the pump broke. Maybe i can use an alternative fluid, gonna check it out.

You can check the pressure and flow to the lift cylinder head. Look at the pic below. If you have an oil filled gauge good to 3000 psi then you can use to see if you have nay pressure developed. Alternatively, you can just open the plug with a bucket under and have someone starts the tractor. You want to catch the oil. that would be indication of flow to the cylinder head. There are other thing to look at but got to diagnose systematically.

 

[RocketMan2024]

Correction to my post #3 above :

The suction filter should be cleaned every 100 hours & oil change every 300 hours.

Ok thanks, gonna do that as soon as the rain lets up here in Houston area. Been raining everyday for a week. LOL

 

[RocketMan2024]

You can check the pressure and flow to the lift cylinder head. Look at the pic below. If you have an oil filled gauge good to 3000 psi then you can use to see if you have nay pressure developed. Alternatively, you can just open the plug with a bucket under and have someone starts the tractor. You want to catch the oil. that would be indication of flow to the cylinder head. There are other thing to look at but got to diagnose systematically.

View attachment 881887

I do not have one but guess i have to buy one. What should the pressure be? When i had the head off i turned the engine over with the starter and fluid was pouring out. Just turning over with the starter and not starting it so figured it was good to go. Wrong assumption apparently. Will get back on this when it stops raining. First we had Hurricane Beryl roll through and then it started raining again a week later and still raining. Can not catch a break. LOL

 

[JC-jetro]

I do not have one but guess i have to buy one. What should the pressure be? When i had the head off i turned the engine over with the starter and fluid was pouring out. Just turning over with the starter and not starting it so figured it was good to go. Wrong assumption apparently. Will get back on this when it stops raining. First we had Hurricane Beryl roll through and then it started raining again a week later and still raining. Can not catch a break. LOL

So, look at the pic below, if oil came out from the port on the left of lift cylinder assembly with an o-ring seal then you are good as that is indication of pump working along with lift spool valve (3-point). it is good to have the gauge but you do not need it now.

Now as far as pressure. The hyd pump is a positive displacement gear variety. The pressure it develops along the flow is based on engine RPM. At the pump rated flow (GPM) and about 2400 engine rpm it should develop around 2100-2300 psi. That pressure is dangerous so need to be careful attaching or detaching pressure gauge there.

You need to look the orientation of the seal you have installed. That's where i suspect the culprit is.

JC,

 

[RocketMan2024]

So, look at the pic below, if oil came out from the port on the left of lift cylinder assembly with an o-ring seal then you are good as that is indication of pump working along with lift spool valve (3-point). it is good to have the gauge but you do not need it now.
View attachment 882013View attachment 882014

Now as far as pressure. The hyd pump is a positive displacement gear variety. The pressure it develops along the flow is based on engine RPM. At the pump rated flow (GPM) and about 2400 engine rpm it should develop around 2100-2300 psi. That pressure is dangerous so need to be careful attaching or detaching pressure gauge there.

You need to look the orientation of the seal you have installed. That's where i suspect the culprit is.

JC,

Great information. Yes, oil did come out that hole you indicated, and was turning motor with starter. Was pretty good stream. The seal was installed exactly like the pic you sent above. I pulled the screen and the screen was dirty but not so much that oil was totally restricted. Will find a new screen and try that route. BTW, there is a smaller hole on the other side of the head directly opposite that one with the O ring. But i dont see that in your pics, is mine different for a reason? Wish i had taken pics of it all before reassembly. May have to pull it apart to get pics as a permanent file.

 

[RocketMan2024]

So, look at the pic below, if oil came out from the port on the left of lift cylinder assembly with an o-ring seal then you are good as that is indication of pump working along with lift spool valve (3-point). it is good to have the gauge but you do not need it now.
View attachment 882013View attachment 882014

Now as far as pressure. The hyd pump is a positive displacement gear variety. The pressure it develops along the flow is based on engine RPM. At the pump rated flow (GPM) and about 2400 engine rpm it should develop around 2100-2300 psi. That pressure is dangerous so need to be careful attaching or detaching pressure gauge there.

You need to look the orientation of the seal you have installed. That's where i suspect the culprit is.

JC,

Just wanted to mention this as added info: when i pulled the head and piston out , the sleeve stayed in. I pulled the piston with a magnet and was difficult to get out even with the bad seal. I tried to get the sleeve out by wiggling it and it wont budge. Is it possible the sleeve has expanded beyond the size of the piston? allowing the oil to seep around it?, OR can the sleeve be cracked ? I did notice that it was hard to get the piston, with seal, back in but it was easy to slide after about 2 inched past the cylinder top? Grasping at straws here as am lost. Logic says it should work.

 

[RocketMan2024]

So, look at the pic below, if oil came out from the port on the left of lift cylinder assembly with an o-ring seal then you are good as that is indication of pump working along with lift spool valve (3-point). it is good to have the gauge but you do not need it now.
View attachment 882013View attachment 882014

Now as far as pressure. The hyd pump is a positive displacement gear variety. The pressure it develops along the flow is based on engine RPM. At the pump rated flow (GPM) and about 2400 engine rpm it should develop around 2100-2300 psi. That pressure is dangerous so need to be careful attaching or detaching pressure gauge there.

You need to look the orientation of the seal you have installed. That's where i suspect the culprit is.

JC,

OK, now i have another problem. I pulled the input filter and was trying to find a new one. I used this number SBA340500340 and there in none to be had, anywhere. So what do i do now? Do you have a source for an alternative filter? I think the old one is too far gone to cleanup and reuse. Fould out a long time ago to never rely on CLEANED UP filters.

 

[JC-jetro]

Great information. Yes, oil did come out that hole you indicated, and was turning motor with starter. Was pretty good stream. The seal was installed exactly like the pic you sent above. I pulled the screen and the screen was dirty but not so much that oil was totally restricted. Will find a new screen and try that route. BTW, there is a smaller hole on the other side of the head directly opposite that one with the O ring. But i dont see that in your pics, is mine different for a reason? Wish i had taken pics of it all before reassembly. May have to pull it apart to get pics as a permanent file.

You will not find a new screen. You need to reuse it. I would get an old tooth pick, get a plastic dish, out diesel fuel in it. You need to soak the screen in the liquid and use the tooth brush to clean. Do that several times along with using compressed air. Mine was plugged just the same. that screen is made out of Stainless steel and it is of a very good quality.

 

[JC-jetro]

Just wanted to mention this as added info: when i pulled the head and piston out , the sleeve stayed in. I pulled the piston with a magnet and was difficult to get out even with the bad seal. I tried to get the sleeve out by wiggling it and it wont budge. Is it possible the sleeve has expanded beyond the size of the piston? allowing the oil to seep around it?, OR can the sleeve be cracked ? I did notice that it was hard to get the piston, with seal, back in but it was easy to slide after about 2 inched past the cylinder top? Grasping at straws here as am lost. Logic says it should work.

In the case of piston, if you remove what ever you have hanging on 3 point, then you can simply raise the 3 point arm, that in turn will rotate the counter shaft and the push the ram rod forward and the piston easily will come out. In my case , I was able to take sleeve and piston out together as one unit. I then used a wooden hammer handle to push piston out of sleeve, that simple ! look at the pic below you see 3/4 round circle that the end of sleeve sit on. I would recommend to get a rubber mallet, or dead blow hammer and a wooden stick about 1x1 acting like punch and then strike the edge of the sleeves to free it up. It should come out easy. I don't think you can crack the sleeves. The back of piston has a concave piece that the ram rod rides on. There is potential side to side force that can potentially deform the sleeve... highly doubtful in my opinion.

 

[JC-jetro]

OK, now i have another problem. I pulled the input filter and was trying to find a new one. I used this number SBA340500340 and there in none to be had, anywhere. So what do i do now? Do you have a source for an alternative filter? I think the old one is too far gone to cleanup and reuse. Fould out a long time ago to never rely on CLEANED UP filters.

I addressed that in couple of posts earlier. Need to re-use. Now if I destroyed the the screen then I would have Jerry rigged some in line filter of some sort. Remember that the screen is on the suction side of the pump and does not see much pressure, so it does not need to be so robust. See the before and after below.

 

[arto98607]

You will not find a new screen. You need to reuse it. I would get an old tooth pick, get a plastic dish, out diesel fuel in it. You need to soak the screen in the liquid and use the tooth brush to clean. Do that several times along with using compressed air. Mine was plugged just the same. that screen is made out of Stainless steel and it is of a very good quality.

Yes the screen was meant to be carefully cleaned in Diesel fuel & reused.

 

[JC-jetro]

Great information. Yes, oil did come out that hole you indicated, and was turning motor with starter. Was pretty good stream. The seal was installed exactly like the pic you sent above. I pulled the screen and the screen was dirty but not so much that oil was totally restricted. Will find a new screen and try that route. BTW, there is a smaller hole on the other side of the head directly opposite that one with the O ring. But i dont see that in your pics, is mine different for a reason? Wish i had taken pics of it all before reassembly. May have to pull it apart to get pics as a permanent file.

That hole is over pressure release so the hyd oil could bypass the piston so seal would not be damaged. Imagine having a 700 lbs brush hog and hit a big hole or something. The pressure developed , looking at the weight hanging and moment arm can cause a huge torque and developing a very high pressure in the lift system, perhaps higher that the pump can develop. That is shock loading and there is a check valve with calibrated spring that divert the shock load to the diffy, saving and giving seal a long life. Below I have a pic of that relief mechanism.

 

[JC-jetro]

Yes the screen was meant to be carefully cleaned in Diesel fuel & reused.

yup, I used a paint tray and put a cup of diesel and did not take much before it was OEM clean.

 

[RocketMan2024]

You will not find a new screen. You need to reuse it. I would get an old tooth pick, get a plastic dish, out diesel fuel in it. You need to soak the screen in the liquid and use the tooth brush to clean. Do that several times along with using compressed air. Mine was plugged just the same. that screen is made out of Stainless steel and it is of a very good quality.

Ut oh. Thats not good. So i guess the filters are like the seal, none made anymore? I found , after i paid high dollar for one, the size of the seal and you can find them on Ebay for way less than $10 dollars. I simply measured the high dollar one and recorded it and looked on Ebay and they are there. From China and takes a couple of weeks to get. Size is 48MM x 60MM X7MM. Got two on them on the way.
Thanks for that info. Will dig out my cleaning materials.