Ford 1210 Lift Fail

[JC-jetro]

Ut oh. Thats not good. So i guess the filters are like the seal, none made anymore? I found , after i paid high dollar for one, the size of the seal and you can find them on Ebay for way less than $10 dollars. I simply measured the high dollar one and recorded it and looked on Ebay and they are there. From China and takes a couple of weeks to get. Size is 48MM x 60MM X7MM. Got two on them on the way.
Thanks for that info. Will dig out my cleaning materials.

I have a diagram of your rig. It is a bit different with ford 1700. Some of the stuff I said with the rock shaft is a bit different. SBA050309016 is the seal you need. I did a quick search and was not able to find. NH might have it. below I have a parts look up and see if you can order one. I did not want to sign up. when I overhauled my hyd system , I paid about $8 for the seal and pump overhaul kit under $30. Now , I wished I bough a spare just to have it. Now they want two arms and a leg for it. lol.

Any pics of your work, a link for what you have bought?

https://www.mycnhstore.com/us/en/newhollandag/search/?byModel=all&text=1210&combinedSearch=true

 

[JC-jetro]

Dang, NH has it for $57 now. I just wished I bought an extra. The first one lasted 25 years.. not too bad.

This is for Ford 1210

New Holland Seal Protection Part # SBA050309016

SEAL PROTECTION

www.newhollandrochester.com

 

[arto98607]

Dang, NH has it for $57 now. I just wished I bought an extra. The first one lasted 25 years.. not too bad.

This is for Ford 1210

Still wondering why did it harden and fail to little pieces - could be someone used unsuitable oil for the hydraulics sometime in the past?

I find it little hard to accept that they would just fail at around 30 years or so no matter what...

My Ford 1310 is now 38 years old and still has all original hydraulic seals as far as I know (I have owned it for 28 years).

 

[RocketMan2024]

I addressed that in couple of posts earlier. Need to re-use. Now if I destroyed the the screen then I would have Jerry rigged some in line filter of some sort. Remember that the screen is on the suction side of the pump and does not see much pressure, so it does not need to be so robust. See the before and after below.View attachment 882061View attachment 882062

WOW, thats amazing how it cleaned up. Mine is in far worse shape. It is made of PAPER and it twisted out of shape, like somebody has tried that before. Gonna give it a shot anyway. That INLINE filter is a great idea and i may just try/do that. Thanks for the pics. BTW i just now put the cap back on without the filter and cranked the engine and that lift popped right up. Shut it down immediately. I DO KNOW it was the filter. Never would have guessed that.

I have a diagram of your rig. It is a bit different with ford 1700. Some of the stuff I said with the rock shaft is a bit different. SBA050309016 is the seal you need. I did a quick search and was not able to find. NH might have it. below I have a parts look up and see if you can order one. I did not want to sign up. when I overhauled my hyd system , I paid about $8 for the seal and pump overhaul kit under $30. Now , I wished I bough a spare just to have it. Now they want two arms and a leg for it. lol.

Any pics of your work, a link for what you have bought?

https://www.mycnhstore.com/us/en/newhollandag/search/?byModel=all&text=1210&combinedSearch=true

I wish i had taken pics but just forgot to do so in the heat of the battle. LOL. Just go on Ebay and look ,there are hundreds of sellers there that import from China. Security Measure. This guy has all sorts of U Cups. I did buy from him and waiting for it to arrive.

 

[JC-jetro]

Still wondering why did it harden and fail to little pieces - could be someone used unsuitable oil for the hydraulics sometime in the past?

I find it little hard to accept that they would just fail at around 30 years or so no matter what...

My Ford 1310 is now 38 years old and still has all original hydraulic seals as far as I know (I have owned it for 28 years).



View attachment 882149

Nothing last for ever! it is perfectly normal. Older seals were based on Nylon. imagine how much heat and pressure they are exposed to. They turn brittle after a long use. Diffy reservoir is atmospherically vented so you will bring moisture in, oil gets oxidized and then turn to very weak acid mixing with other contaminant could cause less lubricity of the hyd oil and more abrasive. This is how my oil looked like after storing the tractor outside under a tarp during my 2 yr home construction. That oil is not good for any seals. New tractors now use rubber seal and also a backer seal , they have improved it a lot. saying that , Ford 1000 series Have an excellent hyd design and so simple to maintain. There is so much disassembly is required on my kubota just to get to the seal, doable but a pain for sure!

 

[RocketMan2024]

Still wondering why did it harden and fail to little pieces - could be someone used unsuitable oil for the hydraulics sometime in the past?

I find it little hard to accept that they would just fail at around 30 years or so no matter what...

My Ford 1310 is now 38 years old and still has all original hydraulic seals as far as I know (I have owned it for 28 years).



View attachment 882149

Yeah, its kinda like the headlight plastic that fails at about 5 years. Why?

 

[JC-jetro]

I seriously doubt if the original screen was paper. That screen or i line should be structurally strong enough so the pieces would not go thru your hyd pump. It can't chew it u without self destructing and that is high $$$$ cost. I overhauled my hyd pump about 20 years ago and complete kit was under $30 then.

 

[RocketMan2024]

Nothing last for ever! it is perfectly normal. Older seals were based on Nylon. imagine how much heat and pressure they are exposed to. They turn brittle after a long use. Diffy reservoir is atmospherically vented so y9u will bring moisture in, oil is get oxidized and then turn to very weak acid mixing with other contaminant could cause less lubricity of the hyd oil and more abrasive. This is how my oil looked like after storing the tractor outside under a tarp during my 2 yr home construction. That oil is not good for any seals. New tractor now use rubber seal and also a backer seal , they have improved it a lot. saying that , Ford 1000 series Have an excellent hyd design and so simple to maintain. There is so much disassembly is required on my kubota just to get to the seal, doable but a pain for sure!
View attachment 882151
View attachment 882152

Just to let you know about that filter i THOUGHT was paper. Turned out it was just coated with a jelly like material that looked like cardboard. It actually is metal and i dont know why it was all twisted out of shape. Maybe previous owner got a little rough with it. Anyway, i will clean it up and reinstall , when the rains stops.

 

[RocketMan2024]

I seriously doubt if the original screen was paper. That screen or i line should be structurally strong enough so the pieces would not go thru your hyd pump. It can't chew it u without self destructing and that is high $$$$ cost. I overhauled my hyd pump about 20 years ago and complete kit was under $30 then.

Yes, see my previous confession. Well, my next project on the 1210 is the front wheel drive, it does not work. I believe the rear U Joint is broken as the shaft just wobbles around in the case. I have seen a video of how to do it. Time consuming but concerned about getting parts for it. I dont hear any popping or grinding coming from front diff so that may be good.

 

[rScotty]

Does your 3pt cylinder work now? It looks like a nice clean rebuild you've done.

There are also two O rings easily accessed in the drop rate control - which is usually a knob under the front of the seat. That drop speed control is usually the culprit when a 3pt hitch will not stay up. It is simply a valve that controls the rate at which fluid leaves the 3pt lift cylinder.

Hope you can find parts. All of those older tractors were designed with the expectation of parts always being available, and that the tractors would then last forever. That was great for owners, but.....
Then the manufacturers all realized that if they continued down that path they would end up either being forced to improve and innovate or they would simply be putting themselves out of business. And innovation is a gamble.

 

[sandman2234]

If you search my posts, you will see where I had a lift that wouldn't go down, and it was due to the head over the piston being installed 180 degrees incorrectly.
David from jax

 

[JC-jetro]

There are also two O rings easily accessed in the drop rate control - which is usually a knob under the front of the seat. That drop speed control is usually the culprit when a 3pt hitch will not stay up. It is simply a valve that controls the rate at which fluid leaves the 3pt lift cylinder.

Scotty,

The return path of hyd oil flow from lift cylinder is through rate of return back to spool valve. So only leaky spool or lift piston seal could be the cause of 3 point drop. The knob simply establishes how fast or slow 3 point goes down and nothing more.

 

[JC-jetro]

If you search my posts, you will see where I had a lift that wouldn't go down, and it was due to the head over the piston being installed 180 degrees incorrectly.
David from jax

yup, that is exactly right. The head is symmetrical and that mistake can happen. when I did mine I made sure oil path way with the O-ring is in right orientation.

If you rotate the rate of return all the way to turtle then effectively you block the oil return and cannot lower. if 3 point is all the way up and then you turn the rate of return to turtle/closed and 3 point comes then , then for sure it is the seal bypassing the oil to diffy and lowering of the 3 point arms.

 

[RocketMan2024]

If you search my posts, you will see where I had a lift that wouldn't go down, and it was due to the head over the piston being installed 180 degrees incorrectly.
David from jax

Yes, i figured that would happen so i took pics of it before i took it apart. But my problem was the filter was completely clogged. Never even thought that would happen.

 

[RocketMan2024]

Does your 3pt cylinder work now? It looks like a nice clean rebuild you've done.

There are also two O rings easily accessed in the drop rate control - which is usually a knob under the front of the seat. That drop speed control is usually the culprit when a 3pt hitch will not stay up. It is simply a valve that controls the rate at which fluid leaves the 3pt lift cylinder.

Hope you can find parts. All of those older tractors were designed with the expectation of parts always being available, and that the tractors would then last forever. That was great for owners, but.....
Then the manufacturers all realized that if they continued down that path they would end up either being forced to improve and innovate or they would simply be putting themselves out of business. And innovation is a gamble.

Yes, it works great. It was the filter plugged up . Cleaned it and works great. Yes on the parts being hard to find. That seal is very expensive and the dealers who still have it have jacked the price up so high it is insane. Greed has is out of hand. So after i paid high dollar i got it and measured it and found on Ebay for less than $10 dollars. Size is 48MM x 60MM X7MM. Will keep them in stock. No need to get ripped off by greedy corporations. Othe parts are just not available and impossible to replace and best to just scrap the tractor for remaining parts. My next job is the front wheel drive. I think the rear u joint is broken. I can probably find a replacement cause u joints of all sizes are available.

 

[arto98607]

Would you be happier if the New Holland dealer did not have the once in 30+ year seal in stock at all at any price?

 

[RocketMan2024]

Would you be happier if the New Holland dealer did not have the once in 30+ year seal in stock at all at any price?


View attachment 882800

Like i said in my other posts, i measured the seal i got and ordered 2 of the exact same design and size on Ebay and have them on hand. I will keep in stock until i need , if ever. Or maybe one of my friends will need one. So does not matter to me.

 

[sandman2234]

Yes, i figured that would happen so i took pics of it before i took it apart. But my problem was the filter was completely clogged. Never even thought that would happen.

Glad you found the issue and were able to correct the issue. In my case, I actually scribed a line across the head and onto the base, so that a mistake wouldn't happen. Unfortunately for me, the head had already been removed, and me scribing a line only made it more difficult for me to realize that the scribed line was incorrect!
David from jax