First Truck for a Tractorman

[Wheeldog]

<font color=blue>I think I'd like to ask Wheeldog and Kerr about Toyota Tacomas, since they seem to have them or know about them.</font color=blue>.

Glenn,

I don't own a Tacoma - I have a 1995 pickup (predecessor to the Tacoma) and a 1990 4Runner. They are used to haul people, a dog, some bikes, and whatever else will fit, but I don't tow with either (don't have a trailer). I'm hoping to buy a Tacoma or Tundra in about two years.

I don't know how much your B2910, FEL, bush hog, and trailer will weigh, but I think it is close to or just over 5000 lb. If you can convince yourself that you are right around the 5000 lb max. rating, then my answer is no - I would not worry about towing with the V6 Tacoma for 300 miles/year. A higher load or if towing more often I might worry a little about wear and tear on the drivetrain, and want to go to something bigger. If you're going to be towing only 2-3% of the time, and if your primary goals for the vehicle are elsewhere, I don't see the need to be tooling around in an F-350 diesel, etc.

By the way, I tried shooting a 'Send Private' note to you yesterday, but it seemed to hang up. If you got it but haven't had time to respond, that's fine - just wanted to know whether it went through OK or not.

Rob

 

[kerr]

Mac.You have gotten more advice than there are stars in the sky.And I am proud as a member of T.B.N. as to the quality of the advice other members have shared on this issue.For myself i would pull the load using back roads taking my sweet ol time.Its fairley flat in texoma land . my 4 cyl taco would pull the load good enough but not in traffic or congested areas.A trl.can take control of a smaller trk or full size vessel for that matter before you can do a darn thing about it.I have 17 yrs exp.over the road flatbed trucking .Never a scratch,not luckey just damn good teachers.You have admitted your lack of exp.with a trk.and trl. im guessing.You were honest and i think you want to be a safe and responsable motorist.Here goes,is the tacoma a good trk.?You bet yer bippy!Could it pull a trl. with a tractor on it?You bet cha!Would i tell you load up and hammer down through town,over hill and dell with your rig in tow?Not on a bet!You would be flirting with disaster fer sure.My honest advise is get yourself a used 3/4 ton pickup,4 speed granny trans.Any motor you want and get ta work safely.Your gonna put this dude through the ringer working the place.Kinda like when ya got your tractor,HEY-i wonder if?!!!!!!Take 3K and get a work truck.My very honest opinion,KERR

 

[DVerbarg]

Glenn,

If you are expecting to only pull a trailer for 300 miles a year then a Tacoma should be ok. You'll need to take it easy but it should be ok. My brother has a Toyota T100 (I think it was the predecessor to the Tacoma) which he used to pull my parent's largest hay rack quite a few times. The hay rack weighs about ... lets see, it holds 250+ bales@60 to 65 lbs each for a total of 15,000+ lbs in payload, plus the wagon. Now he normally only do this in 4wd, max speed 30mph for 10 or so miles. A couple times he actually pulled 2 wagons that had about 350 total bales. He did have to replace the clutch a little earlier than he anticipated but that was after loaning the truck to someone who rode their foot on the clutch.

I realize that hay wagons are not the best comparison because they do not have any "tongue weight" to speak of, just the momentum issue. But if the trailer is properly balanced to give the proper tongue weight and you have a good braking system on the trailer then I would think you would be ok.

DaveV

 

[glennmac]

Thanks, everyone, for the replies. Indeedy, I would be inexperienced and nervous no matter what truck I had to pull a trailer. The braking issue is the one that causes me the greatest concern. (I mean its not going to kill me if I end up burning a transmission or clutch.) If I ever get a trailer I'll be back asking what is the super-duperest trailer brakes.

 

[Wheeldog]

The T100 preceded the Tundra. It was about the size of a Dakota and only offered with the V6 (same as in Tacoma and in base Tundra) - not too well-received. The "Hi-Lux" or no-name compact Toyota truck made up to 1995 preceded the Tacoma.

 

[pdxman]

Cowboydoc, you mentioned you had problems with the 4r100 tranny in your Ford. Before giving up on it, if you haven't already, take it to the Ford dealer...this TSB sounds like what you are experiencing:

2001 Excursion, F-series Extended 1-2/3-4 Upshifts:
Some vehicles built prior to 9-24-00 with the 4R100 and 7.3 PowerStroke engine may exhibit slightly extended 1-2 or 3-4 upshifts during cold startup conditions. This may be caused by the computer calibration. If the condition is verified, and normal diagnosis does not result in a repair, the computer will need to be reprogrammed. Affected vehicles have tear tag numbers PMT2, BKA2, KRK2, NMC2, EBM2.
TSB 01-2-4

Also, if you have ever experienced a tranny failure requiring repair:

E40D/4R100 Auto transmission tip, Fluid in-line filter kit:
Due to repeted failures of these transmissions, Ford now requires that an external transmission fluid filter be installed on the cooler return line any time either of these transmission are repaired or replaced. Concerns stem from the possibility of debris from a failed transmission not being completely flushed from the cooler. This debris may become dislodged and enter the lubrication circuit, which is fed by the cooler return, and result in the remanufactured or repaired transmission failing. Ford Quality Renewal transmission warrenty may be declined if this is not done, and a filter kit is provided with FQR transmissions. For transmissions being repaired, this kit--XC3Z-7B155-AA--must be ordered seperately. The cooler must be flushed and back flushed and a flow check performed prior to installation. This filter should be replaced every 30,000 miles with P/N XC3Z-7B155-BA. From my experience with the amount of metal debris found on the magnet while servicing E4OD transmissions, installing an external filter may act as a safeguard against premature transmission failure.

Here's another website by a mechanic/engineer specifically for ford diesels: www.intellidog.com/dieselmann

 

[cowboydoc]

Thanks pdxman. We have now done all of that and more on it. My friend is the service manager at the local Ford store and we pulled every tsb that there was on the transmission and did it all. He put the newest tranny, heavy duty torque converter and cooler, put in the inline filter and we added a magnetic filter and put the auxillary cooler on it as well. Truck was flushed before it was even ran to get any filings out of the new transmission and system. I then drove it for 200 miles and he flushed it again for me. I don't think there's much more that I can do on it. I still have alot left on the 36/36 warranty so we are going to see how it does. If it keeps up I'm just going to trade him for a stick.

 

[cowboydoc]

Pdxman and Dr. Dan,
Well after doing all of the add-ons and new transmission I finally had a chance to try it out this weekend. We went to a couple of rodeos with a sundowner 4 horse living quarters, 4 horses, all our gear. Traveled 175 miles to one and 124 to the other one and then home. Transmission never got above 180 degrees. Most of the time it was around 160 except pulling hills. This transmission is much firmer than the old one. It's not hunting gears near as bas as it used to. I put the superchip in coming home to see the difference and that firmed it up even more but temps stayed about the same. All in all it looks like this beefier transmission may do the job, fingers crossed. Still miss my manual transmission though, but wife loves the auto.

 

[DrDan]

That sounds great Richard...

I've learned - If there's a will there's a way. Hope you found the way - those are great tranny temps. If I were you I'd put Amsoil in the tranny and torque converter also. It's pretty darn good stuff and should drop temps another 10 degrees.

Dr Dan

 

[cowboydoc]

Dan,
We put in the heavy duty torque converter already. I'm not going to put in Amsoil yet as it's still under warranty and I really don't want there to be any question if this thing goes again. I agree it may be better but it's a no win situation when you try and fight Ford.

 

[StanInCalif]

Cowboy-
The new ZF 6-speed is a sweetheart- and perfectly matched to the Power Stroke. -Stan

 

[Phred]

Glennmac,

For what its worth I will through in my two cents. I have always loved nissians. I have had two nissians one with better part of 100K miles of atlanta traffic on it and zero problems. I finally sold that one and upgraded to a pathfinder. Hell of a fine 4x4. Great for 12" snow, mud & rocks, as well as parking in the city. The fact is however that these imports are not made for real work. I know that some folks will get mad at that statment, but it is based on my 10+ years with these beasts. I looked at the toyotas in great detail. In the end I bought a used 93 F250 diesel for less than 10K.

Now the pathfinder is "rated" for just over 5000 lbs much like the toyotas and the jeep von uses. But bileve me the difference is night and day.
I would not even consider pulling anything larger than a lawn tractor with an import.

I drive the pathfinder as my daily and the ford as my weekend work truck. Get a cheap used 3/4 ton.
Just my opnion.

Besides this way you will have a reason to play with the impact wrench /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.
Fred

 

[cowboydoc]

Stan,
Yes I know that's why I wanted it. Six gears is perfect for what I have. How these engineers in all their wisdom could make a four speed auto rather than a five speed at least. Now they are making a five speed auto for the 2003 model.

 

[pdxman]

DrDan, you sure are an AMSOIL fan. What sold you on it?
I don't think I've seen it in the stores, where's it found? Cost?

I am planning a trip this fall over the mountains from Oregon to North Dakota for pheasant hunting and want to do anything financially feasible to not have problems along the way.

 

[glennmac]

Well, I've been doing a lot of research and looking at trucks. I now know a lot more than I did. Does anyone have any opinions on the new pickup/SUV hybrids--the Chevy Avalanche, Ford Sport-Trac and Volkswagon AAC.

 

[PaulT]

Some background on my experience:
I live in upstate NY and have extensive off-road and deep snow/blizzard driving experience, as well as towing and plowing. I have also lived in NYC, and Boston, so I have driven all of the northeast highways under all different weather conditions. I think I know your (our) part of the country pretty well. I have owned all of the following for at least several years each:
1980 Chev k20 with hd springs (k=4wd, 20=3/4ton) It was spec'd originally as a powerline maintenance truck for a local power company - a real battleship until the body (not the frame) rusted off.
1987 Nissan Pathfinder - garden variety SUV with all the trimmings.
1990 Chevy K1500 short bed (6 1/2 foot bed, 4wd 1/2 ton)
1996 Chevy Tahoe - a 1/2 pickup truck in SUV clothing!
1997 Chevy K2500 extended cab short bed with HD springs and towing package

Here's my advice, after reading all of the post straight through:

Diesel engines are hard to find fuel for if you don't know exactly where to go. As you travel out of your home territory, you may have to hunt for a station with diesel. Used to be every gas station had a diesel pump, but now, I have to go out of my way to get diesel for the 2710. Probably be even harder as you venture south toward the city. They also have poor acceleration characteristics RELATIVE to a gas engine. Sometimes we need to speed up quickly to get out of harms way.

The mid-size truck class (both domestic and import) are not built to take the abuse of hauling and working day in and day out. If you want a truck to commute in, fine, but if you want to tow and use it as a 3rd vehicle for working, get a full size.

In the full size class, the Toy(ota)s are too new and too few. If you need a new water pump for your v8, how much do you think it would cost to replace the Tundra part vs a chevy 350 part? How about a used radiator? Even though they improve the engines each year, they are still based on the same basic engine design. This is true of all domestic brands, but the venerable chevy 350 is hard to beat for parts availability.

If you really start using the truck for projects, you will probably find that hauling gravel and topsoil from the local gravel pit is what you do most that taxes the truck. You can easily overload the weight ratings with a 2/3 full bed full of topsoil (<2yds). If you find yourself if this position, HD rear springs are a good bet. You can get these by finding a truck that had the towing option. Also, the truck brakes are bigger on the 3/4 ton trucks, as well as on trucks with towing packages.

Automatic transmission. The hunting issue on hills can be a concern, but there is a tradeoff - it is really nervewracking to try to start from a standstill at the top of a steep hill - especially when that little nissan sentra is 3 feet behind you! You can still manually shift the autos on a long steep incline, and this will eliminate much of the hunting.

Garage clearance - My truck sits up high and still fits (just) into my 7 foot garage door. thew Dodges look like they might not.

My conlcusion - Get a 5-7 year old 3/4 ton (25xx series) 4WD extended cab short bed pickup with towing package. You can probably find one for about $10-15k that you wouldn't be embarrased to be seen in. As for brand - You might have noticed I am a Chevy fan. Fords are probably just fine, but I don't like the interiors - too spartan in my opinion. The Dodge engines were a little dicey back then. they had just introduced the newly designed RAMs, and they had reliability issues for a few years. Check the consumer reports reliability stats for the specific year and make you are considering. Some of the known problems may have been paid for by the previous owner, but be careful.

Finally, you will find yourself off the road if you get one of these things. Some of the back woods around me probably do look a bit like Afganistan. It can be for fun, or it can be for work, or it can be because you made a bad decision and ended up in a ditch and decided to keep moving so you wouldn't get stuck, but you will end up off the road. Lets just hope its not on one of your infrequent towing trips.

Just my opinion.

PaulT

 

[cowboydoc]

Paul,
You are right on with your entire thread and I agree with everything you said with the exception of diesels being slower accelerating than gas. Have you driven the newer diesels from Ford 95 on and the new chevy diesel? They definitely are not any slower than a gas engine for acceleration at all. Now if you go back before 95 then yes you are exactly right. But the new diesels with the turbos, intercoolers, and high hp and torque will either accelerate as well as or out accelerate most gas engines.

 

[PaulT]

On an ABSOLUTE basis, with regard to what you can buy from the manufacturer installed in the truck, you may be correct. That is why I capitalized RELATIVE. RELATIVE to price, especially. Lets not forget that this thread should not be a discussion of truck religions; Glenn is looking for practical advice. For what he wants to do, the extra $$s for diesel is probably not justifiable. Even with the extended life of a well kept diesel over a sparker, the total economics aren't there unless you really need the top of the line power, which he doesn't. The only way you would even consider a diesel (economically speaking) is if you are comparing it to the monster gas engines available (dodge v-10, chevy 7.xx liter v-8, etc.) It would be unfair to compare the large diesels to the small gas engines. Also, these options are thousands of dollars over the base 350 (I guess chevy is now running a 327 as a base engine - still a widely used engine block for years).

When comparing the diesel to these engines, I still think I'd place my money on the gas engine for acceleration. I may be wrong, and I'm too lazy to do the research, but my recollection is that diesels have the torque curve, and gas has the power. In rolling situations, when the intial inertia is already overcome, acceleration is more affected by power than torque. I think the gas engines are faster and more thermodynamically efficient than diesel - otherwise why wouldn't Nascar be running diesels?? I stand with my practical recommendation.

PaulT

 

[cowboydoc]

Paul,
I think you missed the point of my post. I DO AGREE WITH you about what you said Glenn needed for a truck. I wouldn't even think of recommending a diesel for his application. What I didn't agree with was the acceleration factor. The new diesel's are rated at 275 hp and 525 lbs. of torque. The new chevy isuzu diesel is rated at 300 hp. The v-8 are rated at 260 hp or less. In 0-60 and quarter mile the diesel wins compared to the v-8. When compared to the v-10 it's too close to go either way.

 

[PaulT]

Well, this is going to be a slighty off thread-topic response. Hopefully you won't take it as anything more than an academic discussion. Also, as I said earlier, I am too lazy to do the research, so if I stretch the truth, or (god forbid) get it absolutely wrong, please feel free to correct me. Here goes.

Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, gallon for gallon, cubic inch for cubic inch, the gas engines develop way more horsepower than a diesel engine can. I believe it is fundamentally inherent in the fuel source. Gasoline is MUCH more volatile than diesel oil, and therefore can fuel a more powerful (and efficient, by the way) thermodynamic heat pump. That said, I believe your point is that, based on available engine options in 3/4 ton work trucks, diesel acceleration cannot be said to be slower than gasoline acceleration anymore. This is probably a true statement (no, I haven't driven any of the new diesels, but I think I might now, just for the fun of it/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif). Now here's the kicker - at what price? Since they have managed to cram such giant powerplants under the hoods, the sizes (by cu. in.) vary greatly. We could make engine size adjustments and calculate theoretically equivalent "handicapped" speeds, but lets just assume that a bigger engine costs more to build, and that will be its "handicap". So, they needed to make the diesels faster, to combat the popular perception held by folks like me that they are slower. Unfortunately, to go the same speed or faster, I have to spend lots of extra $$. The acceleration per dollar to improve the last 20% of performance of the current generation diesel to get it "over" the gas engine was probably very high. If these same performance enhancements were applied to a gas engine, the increased acceleration per dollar would probably be much greater - again all due to the thermodynamic characteristics of gasoline vs. diesel. The manufacturers haven't had to resort to such excesses on the gas engines because they were the performance target the diesel engine designers were aiming at - they were already performing exceptionally well.



PaulT