FEL and Filled tires

MikePA · Oct 24, 2003

have_blue, would it be possible for you to post some pictures of this situation where the FEL wont reach the ground? In particular, I'm interested if the cylinders are fully retracted.

have_blue · Oct 24, 2003

( HOw would you get the fluid out of the tire? )

Best way is to roll the tire until the valve stem is at 6:00, and unscrew the valve stem. When the water slows, shoot some air in the tire and stand back.

I'm just letting out a little water...just below the valve stem at the 12:00 position. Dealer put in a little too much water.

have_blue · Oct 24, 2003

( have_blue, would it be possible for you to post some pictures of this situation where the FEL wont reach the ground? In particular, I'm interested if the cylinders are fully retracted. )

Understand the bucket does not touch the ground only in the fully rolled back position. There was about a 1-1/8" gap at first. It touches the ground easily in the level position, and even while slightly rolled back.

I added air to the rears and removed air from the fronts yesterday Thursday morning. This closed the gap to about 1/2". Thursday afternoon, I shot more air into the rears, going up to about 12 pounds. I did not check the gap, but will do so this morning and take a picture if there's still a gap.

Incidentally, it's scooping better since I aired the rears. I don't think my tractor has enough power to raise a slightly dug in 72" bucket while on the move. I have to clutch it in order to raise it even 1/2".

rambler · Nov 14, 2003

I run 7 farm tractors on my farm, 1/2 have fluid.

If you have CC in them, rinse the rims if you are letting water out. However:

There is no reason to let water out??????

The tires should have about 75-80% fluid. The tire should have the same air pressure as normal. I'm guessing the dealer dude forgot to air it up, when you put in fluid you end up around zero air pressure.

The fluid should be totally transparent to any of your loader problems. Totally & completely, should make no difference at all.

I just has an old tire leak on me, had the service truck out, replaced the tire & tube, refilled with fluid, & had my little 1720 rears filled. Sure makes a world of difference on the stability of the tractor with loader!

Getting your rear tires up to proper pressure will make some difference, as you are finding. But something else, totally seperate from the fluid, is causing a problem here?

--->Paul

JerryG · Nov 14, 2003

have_blue,
You might have one of the guys that has the same loader measure the compressed and extended lengths. Having the wrong cylinders is a long shot, but I have seen stranger things from the factory. (ex. 4x4 truck with way different gear ratios front and rear)

NoTrespassing · Nov 15, 2003

Jerry, now you got my attention. We gotta hear the story of the different factory installed gear ratios. I'm having all kinds of pictures go thru my head about what happened the first time somebody used 4 wheel drive on the truck. Shift on the fly at about 40 mph would be interesting. I would think with an open rearend on an empty truck it would be chirping one of the rear tires. Sorry for off topic but I just gotta hear it. Could you give us a hint about the brand too /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Maybe this is a completely new thread?

Kevin

JerryG · Nov 15, 2003

No brands from me. But I will tell the story. The guy was on the farm and need to go up a steep hill. He reached down and put it in 4 wheel. Started out slow, up the hill. The front tires started digging and throwing rocks everywhere. He tried it on level ground and it did the same thing. Took it to the dealer, they checked the axle tags and they said that the ratios were right. The dealer took the truck to the back lot to test it and the same thing happen with dirt and rock being thrown everywhere. When they tore it down the front differential had something like 2:75?:1 and rear had 3.50 or 3.73:1. This was a new two or three day old truck. Anything can happen from the factory, any factory, that is why I said check an other loader.

have_blue · Nov 17, 2003

( Having the wrong cylinders is a long shot, but I have seen stranger things from the factory )

JerryG,

The cylinders seem to have the necessary range. With the bucket level, the FEL will not pick up the tires, but that's apparently due to lack of power, not stroke. With the bucket un-curled, thus making a shorter lever, it will pick up the front tires.

Speed bumps are now a minor issue, as I've resigned myself to getting them. The more I use this FEL, the more I dislike it. Since I have lots of FEL work ahead, the prospects of using it are not encouraging. My little Woods 1009 loader on my TC29 would work circles around it, especially if I had it on my new TC35.

I'm getting my dealer to look at it, and I'm hopeful he will help me sell or trade it.

Mean time, I would appreciate it if anyone that has a 16LA doing a few little tests for me.

With the bucket level, lower it straight down and see if it picked up the tires, and how far. (mine won't)

With bucket level and arms lowered, scoop about 2" into firm soil. Now lift straight up without curling. Will it lift? (mine won't)

With bucket curled up to maximum, lift loader about 5'. Quickly un curl the bucket all the way. Does it go down to vertical, then hesitate 3-4 seconds before bumping against the stops? (mine does)

Many thanks!

Bobvt · Nov 17, 2003

I had two different ratios in my new 3/4 ton Ford (1979). It would wind up so bad in 4 wheel low, that I would have to remove the cover from the transfer case and use a bar to get it out. That was the least of the problems I had with it.

Bob

jinman · Nov 17, 2003

Well, Have_blue, my loader will lift the wheels easily with the bucket flat on the ground. It will attempt to lift the wheels with the bucket curled all the way, but the travel on the lift cylinders runs out and the wheels never fully come off the ground even though the axle lifts 1-1/2" to 2" up. On a flat concrete surface the tires might clear, but not in the dirt where I was checking.

Now about the lift while digging. If I stop pushing with the tractor and do a staight lift, the bucket will come up until it's about half full. If I'm moving the tractor forward, I have to curl the bucket to get it to lift if I'm cutting about 4" deep. From your description of both these issues, I think you need to ask your dealer to adjust your pressure relief valve. Although, I know the TC35 is adjusted lower than the 40 and 45. The adjustment is the only difference in the tractors. I am guessing that the 72" bucket is overworking your hydraulics and maybe even your engine if it is bogging down. My relief valves always lift before my engine gives up, but my 10 extra horsepower is quite a bit of difference.

I don't blame you for being upset and wanting a different loader. If mine had the same characteristics I'd be pretty upset too. You don't suppose my cutter bar edge makes that much difference do you? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

have_blue · Nov 17, 2003

Hi Jinman,

I think a cutter bar would just make things worse. The extra weight plus the extra length of the combined lever would add up. My loader's lifting power is weakest with the bucket fully extended (level).

The engine is fine, although the pump seems to be more than a match for it at low RPM. My little TC29 and Woods loader would never quit like this one. Heck I had to keep a 550# cutter on the back to keep it from tunking me over. This loader is safe...maybe too safe. Hmmm...just wondering if the product liability monster has reared its head.

I'll ask my dealer to up the pressure, which could possibly cure some of the poor productivity. If it doesn't help, I'll try to talk him into a trade.

I have no right to be upset with the loader. I bought it sight unseen when there was a 30 day wait for the Woods loader I originally ordered. My lack of patience is what got me.

snowbound · Dec 1, 2003

( Mean time, I would appreciate it if anyone that has a 16LA doing a few little tests for me. )

I have a TC35D with 16LA so if nobody's done some of these I'll try them.

( With the bucket level, lower it straight down and see if it picked up the tires, and how far. (mine won't))

I'll see if I can't try that tomorrow.

( With bucket level and arms lowered, scoop about 2" into firm soil. Now lift straight up without curling. Will it lift? (mine won't))

I don't have any convenient firm soil to scoop but I will point out that I have lifted pretty heavy logs (two 8ft sections of 24" diameter willow) toward the ends of long pallet forks that were level and the arms lowered. Now that is about 1200 pounds so it's not pushing the envelope for the 16LA. Since this willow was standing dead before it fell we don't know how green it was, maybe it could be 10-20% heavier. In any case there didn't seem to be any lack of agility on the loader. It got slightly snappier when I curled the forks back to pull the logs in and shorten the lift length but that is to be expected.

As to dumping the logs, I couldn't dump them; I had to stack them, so I don't know how fast they dumped.

( With bucket curled up to maximum, lift loader about 5'. Quickly un curl the bucket all the way. Does it go down to vertical, then hesitate 3-4 seconds before bumping against the stops? (mine does))

I'll try that.

kensfarm · Dec 1, 2003

I was wondering what RPM you are operating at.. if I'm doing serious FEL work.. I'm running at 25 or 26 hundred RPM.

snowbound · Dec 1, 2003

( Mean time, I would appreciate it if anyone that has a 16LA doing a few little tests for me. )

OK I did these things. Just to make clear, I have a TC35D with a 16LA loader, full rear wheel weights, and only air in the tires. The bucket is the heavy duty version and it is attached by the Quick-Attach (skid steer compatible) system.

( With the bucket level, lower it straight down and see if it picked up the tires, and how far. (mine won't))

Lowering the level bucket does pick up my tires, but only about an inch, maybe two. The weight definitely comes off the front right away.

If I put the bucket level on the ground and _curl_ it down, then the front end comes right up. I didn't see just how far I could get the front end off the ground, but it's several inches for sure.

I did these things at 1500 RPM. I thought maybe revving the engine would get a little higher on the level bucket pressdown, but it didn't seem to be that different at 2600 RPM. I think there is maybe a pressure limit in the hydraulics.

Are you in gear when you do this? I wonder if that makes a difference.

( With bucket curled up to maximum, lift loader about 5'. Quickly un curl the bucket all the way. Does it go down to vertical, then hesitate 3-4 seconds before bumping against the stops? (mine does))

I didn't notice a delay, it just goes down smoothly as far as it goes. It takes about three seconds. By "quickly uncurl" I take you to mean putting the control lever all the way to the dump stop.

Does this delay you get depend on having the bucket _exactly_ above some height or does yours have this delay at all heights? Seems to me if it shows up exactly at a certain height that would be telling you something about what causes it.

rambler · Dec 1, 2003

( With bucket curled up to maximum, lift loader about 5'. Quickly un curl the bucket all the way. Does it go down to vertical, then hesitate 3-4 seconds before bumping against the
stops? (mine does))

I didn't notice a delay, it just goes down smoothly as far as it goes. It takes about three seconds. By "quickly uncurl" I take you to mean putting the control
lever all the way to the dump stop.

Does this delay you get depend on having the bucket _exactly_ above some height or does yours have this delay at all heights? Seems to me if it shows up
exactly at a certain height that would be telling you something about what causes it.

===============

Isn't this just a funtion of the bucket pulled down by gravity, and at low engine rpm it takes a bit for the hyd pump to catch up & start moving the bucket again? Seems like a normal action for many of my hydraulic farm implements, noticed it with my 1720 too.

--->Paul

snowbound · Dec 2, 2003

( With bucket curled up to maximum, lift loader about 5'. Quickly un curl the bucket all the way. Does it go down to vertical, then hesitate 3-4 seconds before bumping against the
stops? (mine does)

I didn't notice a delay

===============

Isn't this just a funtion of the bucket pulled down by gravity, and at low engine rpm it takes a bit for the hyd pump to catch up & start moving the bucket again?)

Since have_blue gets one result and I get a different one I would think there might be some difference in the hydraulics of the two tractors. I am guessing maybe there is some restriction of the flow in his, and maybe based on the raising the front thing, there might also be a pressure relief settting which is different. I'm just guessing though.

Since his tractor and mine should have essentially identical hydraulics I think this difference might be due to a fault or maybe an adjustment that can be made that would make him happier with his tractor.

( Seems like a normal action for many of my hydraulic farm implements, noticed it with my 1720 too.)

I am guessing that have_blue has tried the higher revs since he is not excited about the balky and mushy performance of his tractor.

Now with my 16LA, the bucket went over nice and smoothly which suggests that the hydraulics were limiting the tipover in my case all the way from the beginning; this might be why I didn't notice a delay. But I didn't notice a difference between 1500 RPM and 2600 RPM either.

have_blue · Dec 2, 2003

( I was wondering what RPM you are operating at.. if I'm doing serious FEL work.. I'm running at 25 or 26 hundred RPM. )

It doesn't matter. Power is the same anywhere above ~1500rpm.

have_blue · Dec 2, 2003

( I was wondering what RPM you are operating at.. if I'm doing serious FEL work.. I'm running at 25 or 26 hundred RPM. )

It doesn't matter. Power is the same anywhere above ~1500rpm.

kensfarm · Dec 3, 2003

It shouldn't be.. maybe that is a hint to the tractor's problem.. I can easily tell a difference in the power between 2000 RPM and 2500 RPM.. maybe a hydralic flow problem? ...maybe it's time for me to change my hydralic filters? Hope this problem gets worked out..