favourite stick rod

[Soundguy]

I used a Tombstone Lincoln 225 back in 1969 to build 2 ea 40 foot long 4 wheel cotton hauling trailers from the ground up. I bought the axle stubbs, rims and tires, everything else I fabbed up with the aid of a Victor cutting torch, Lincoln 225 and grinder. I dont even think they made 7018 AC rods back then but I used 6011 and 7018 DC rods in the cracker box. 6010 for first pass and then weld out with 7018 They would arc out often and were hard to start, difficult to weld overhead with, but I had a really steady hand back then and they got the job done. I hauled many loads of cotton weighing in at over 10,000#. Dad retired in 1980 and they were still hauling cotton last time I saw them in 1990. Might still be around somewhere.
DC is much easier to control and I think everyone who has used it agrees with that, but the old Lincoln 225 with copper windings AC machine has built a lot of farm and hobby stuff before the DC machines became affordable or available for home use.
Sure, I use DC exclusively for stick now, but I would never say that AC is useless for stick.

my point exactly...

ac has practical application.

Here's my practical application.

I'm not a trained welder.

I'm not a fabricator nor a machinish.

I have a few hobby level projects that requre metal to be melted and stuck to other metal.

I have a very few 'critical' repairs that require welding. If I had to geuss, I'd say that less than 1 per year does a situation occur, that if I could not weld, that something would stay broke down or not repaired. Again.. I hve plenty of low level projects that make hobby farming nicer, like buzzing a step up to bolt on to the running board to help me get on a tractor. that's an ergonomic addition.. not one that prevents the machine from running.. etc.

I bought my hobart welder as a cost / benefit analysis a while back when i had one of those critical farm repairs come up.

i had a batwing mower and one of the dang wings fell off one day! hinge broke.

I called around. Cheapes mobile welding place I could find gave a 'guestimate' quote of 400$, which by the way was their minimum to show up and make sparks, plus a few hours of work. And that was with me providing all the labor, me getting the wing propped up and level, etc, me have most of the correct parts or materials like a hinge pin / rod, and the hinge plates. the welding service would provide incedental filler metals or small parts for gussets or bracing.. etc include din thier shop supply charge, They also build for fuel and o/a gas as well.

IE.. in a perfect situation with no cutting, just the guy driving up, me haivng all parts lined up and vice gripped into place, and he cranks his welder up, suits up, and makes some sparks, packs up and leaves, 400$.. any o/a use or stock metal use, grinding wheel costs, time spent over the minimum charge, or any other supplies needed, = extra charge.

with that in mind I looked around a couple hours.. TSC had the best price on a machine, using the 225a lincoln as a sort of baseline, looking at the box stores and welding shops ( couldn't find a darn one on craigslist or ebay / flea market /pawn shop when i needed it ).. lowes had the best price on the lincoln.. at 248.xx$ for a 225a machine. TSC had the hobart 235xl for 238.xx$ I also had a 10% coupon at tsc, making it come out to 215$ before tax or so. both had some basic accy kit with them. cheap flip down shaded mask, pair of gloves and chipping hammer, and something like 1lb @ of 3 different rods.. must have been 6011, 6013 and 7018ac I believe.. etc. plus one of those orange rod storage tubes. ( a 19.99$ value for that kit, so the advertisement said, but free with welder purchase! )

that 215$ investment, with tax was 227.66 ( still got the reciept in my equipment file right here ).

On the way home I grabbed a handfull of 6011 from work, which I pass on my way home from tsc.

i didn't even own a real torch.. just a small soldering set of the smallest o/a bottles, plus plumbers and map gas bottles. I did have a hf chopsaw, angle grinder and a sawsall.

I grabbed some scrap from the small scrap bin I had, took an hour to heat and bend the hinge pin straight using a pipe and vice. took another 30m to prep the areas to be welded using the grinder and finish cutting off the old hinge plate so it could be heat and beat back into shape. follow that with 20 actual minutes of making sparks welding the hinge plates back on and making sure welds were good, then another 30m of getting the wing into place and driving the hing pin in. had a few squeaks as it was a few thou off in a couple spots.. hinge plate probably was too.. but it drove in using a 2lb drilling hammer and some grease. .. no surprises.. another 5 minutes of making sparks to add the pin limit/stop/keepers, then the test. started the tractor and folded the wings.. first fold made some creaking noises as it folded, and on the drop it went a lil slow and creaked. after about 3 cycles, everything was smooth. that was years ago.

still use the mower as my primary pasture mower.. many cutings a year.

no signs of cracks in the welds. and yes.. i do a thourough inspection of all my mowers befroe using them, including lubing fittings, checking oil, bearings and bushings and welds and them darn hinges for the wings, plus stress points like the nubs the hyd cyls attach too, and the plumbing itself.

right there, that single one time use, saved me at a minimum, $ 172.34

that means I either could have paid a minimum of 400$ and had it fixed, and had nothing else to show for it, or pay the 277.xx$, have it fixed, and have a homeowner quality welder as a 'leftover', PLUS have an extra 172.xx$ in my pocket.


hmmm.. hard decision...

And yes.. i did look at the DC version of the machine. determined I didn't need it to simply melt some mild steel together.

it's not all about the most capability or the name.. it was about meeting the needs I had in a suitable fashion, at least exceeding the minimum requirements.

I could have very easilly have come home with a lincoln had it been cheaper that day. all the same, I'm glad I didn't. I don't prefer the knob-setting they use, vs the continous dial of the hobart... at the time.. eaither would ahve worked satisfactorilly. in fact.. walmart was sold out of their cambel hausfeld 200+a machine that day.. it was a frosty 205$ or so.. and that is what would have come home, if it had been in stock... I'm just as glad I got the hobart though.

soundguy

 

[LD1]

some people buy something to do a job, even if it's a near consumable quality level of item.

some people buy something to prove something, or to make up for something.

some people buy something for value / investment based purchases.

soundguy

I can tell you what kind of guy I am. And I think I know what kind of guy you are. But what kind of guy do you think ShieldARC is??

I am not a pro welder. I dont need a big buck pro machine. My AC buzzboz with my mig welder will suit my needs just fine.

Here are a couple of trailers that we have been using for 10 or so years to shuttle firewood. Both done with stick. The smaller one was ALL 6013, and the larger one was ALL 7014 on our "useless" AC machine.

Turns out, having them trailers has proved pretty "usefull":thumbsup:

Plus the countless other things it has welded. Loader bucket repair, bushhog deck repairs, carry-all, backhoe repair, snow plow repair, etc.

 

[Shield Arc]

But what kind of guy do you think ShieldARC is??

He has no idea who I' am. But I'll tell you who I' am. I'm a guy who made a living building bridges, which involved welding, and rigging. I welded for years, got bored with that and took to rigging full time. Retired now, split my time on these forums passing on a life of experience, and playing in my shop. Sure I voice my opinion, guys like you and soundguy don't like to read my opinion, I suggest you don't read my posts! Don't know, does this site have an ignore option? If so, I suggest you two use it!

 

[LD1]

Might I suggest that next time you post something like "AC is only good for aluminum TIG welding" please put that "IMO" or something of the like.

Instead of making it seem like a statement of FACT. Which it certainly is NOT.

I respect EVERYONES opinion on this forum. But when someone makes a statement in a factual way (even though it is false) they need to be reminded that it is NOT a fact, and indeed just thier opinion.

Which I think we have accomplished here. Have we not?

 

[Shield Arc]

Might I suggest that next time you post something like "AC is only good for aluminum TIG welding" please put that "IMO" or something of the like.

Instead of making it seem like a statement of FACT. Which it certainly is NOT.

I respect EVERYONES opinion on this forum. But when someone makes a statement in a factual way (even though it is false) they need to be reminded that it is NOT a fact, and indeed just thier opinion.

Which I think we have accomplished here. Have we not?

Everything I say / type is my opinion, nothing more.
You realize this is the Internet, not church! You two need to lighten up, and don't believe everything you read. Just because I don't blow smoke up your skirt by telling you how great your equipment is, doesn't mean a thing, I'm just a guy on the Internet, my GAWD!

 

[LD1]

Everything I say / type is my opinion, nothing more.
You realize this is the Internet, not church! You two need to lighten up, and don't believe everything you read. Just because I don't blow smoke up your skirt by telling you how great your equipment is, doesn't mean a thing, I'm just a guy on the Internet, my GAWD!

And a guy on the internet who looses respect very quickly when you belittle someone else who may not have/want as good of stuff as you got.

Again, just because you need/choose/want/can-afford the best-of-the-best, DOESNT mean everyone else's stuff is junk and useless as you claim.

There are somethings where I have the best of the best. Other things, not so much. But in the areas where I have the best, I dont be-little those that do not. So in the areas where I dont use the best, I expect the same in return as a courtesy.

We all know you are a pro at what you do, and have only the best equipment. You have made that very clear. But you arent going to make any friends or earn any respect if you constantly be-little those who arent on your leven in your area of expertise.

 

[Shield Arc]

Soundguy has been on a mission every since I stated I wasn't fond of Hobart welders, (my opinion). He demanded I state why. Now he states he saves my postsYou come a long and get your feelings hurt because I don't weld SMAW on AC, (again my opinion, my right). Seems as you two put way too much stock in what I say. These are my opinions, nothing more. You two need to get a life.
Again I'm just a guy on the Internet!

 

[Chilly807]

It might be a good idea to take the feud to a private message exchange, there's really no need for the rest of us to see it. If this keeps up the thread will be shut down, which is unfair to the originator.

Sean

 

[LD1]

If this keeps up the thread will be shut down, which is unfair to the originator.

Sean

Agreed:thumbsup:

Everyone has their opinions. And we are ALL just "guys on the internet"

That said, I still try to treat everyone the same as I would face-to-face. And it is the be-littling that I dont appreciate and take offense to. Hopefully we all can just grow up and stop playing the "mine is better than yours" game and have some intelligent conversations.

I am done with this thread. Unsubscribed :thumbsup:

 

[monckywrench]

Whatever you use, get lots of time under your hood.

The most important component to a good weld is the "nut holding the stinger".

Industrial equipment is nice to have (and used gear easy to accumulate inexpensively) but for many jobs it isn't critical.

I still keep my AC-225/DC-125 for convenience, but prefer my 250 Migmaster, 450i cvcc ESAB, and Miller 340 AB/P. (The Miller was the cheapest at 250 bucks!)

While Shield Arc might not like being stuck (in some hypothetical situation) with an AC Hobart Stickmate and a box of chain store 6011, I expect he could produce sound welds with zero problem although with zero pleasure compared to using an SA-200.

Old pre-ITW industrial Hobart gear often goes CHEAP, by the way, and it's frequently quite stout. Check the MODEL of anything you run into on various welding forums to find out what's good and what ain't.

Old AC industrial machines (any major US brand) often have higher OCV (open circuit voltage) than entry-level gear, and plenty of serious work was done with them. They didn't come in 500 and larger amp sizes for no reason. If one fell into my hands for under scrap price I'd at least give it a shot for the educational value. My Miller 340 will run nicely off a 50A breaker though not maxed out. Any of the examples below should also do fine off a (better choice) 100A breaker which I'll add for my setup.

Some little single-phase AC buzz boxes:
The Miller manual was last updated in 1985 and the Lincoln in 1996 so they aren't ancient:

 

[Shield Arc]

This same discussion came up on another site a year or so ago. Up until then I couldn't honestly say I ever ran SMAW on AC, so I gave it a try. Little open root vertical up with 1/8 inch 6011.

 

[jake98]

ShieldArc, are you cutting those bevels with your plasma to make those coupons?

 

[Shield Arc]

No! That's too much work:laughing:, I use the Ellis bandsaw.

 

[jake98]

Well, I guess that should do it..

 

[Shield Arc]

Yeah shes a pretty cool saw, cuts angles really accurate, 50-degrees either way.

 

[Verticaltrx]

On the whole AC vs DC thing, yes DC is nice, but a necessity hardly. I have a nice 500 amp Diesel engine driven welder sitting in my shop, it welds very smooth and is a joy to use. However, around the shop for 95% of the stick welding I do I use my old Lincoln 225-AC. It's easier than pulling the engine drive welder out, starting it up, having to listen to it run etc. And with years of practice IMO the difference in weld quality between the two is minimal.


To the OP, as I mentioned before, I use Lincoln 7018AC rods (for both of the aforementioned machines) and they work great. As with any 7018's they take a lot of amps to run compared to other rods. Don't hesitate to try them and with enough practice they'll probably become one of your favorite rods for an AC machine. Just make sure they are good and dry, even a tiny bit of dampness makes 7018's all but worthless.

IMO these welds don't look too bad for an AC machine (1/8" 7018AC, 135amps):

 

[Mike_VT]

6011 for farm equipment and 7018 for new stuff.

 

[Haywire]

even a tiny bit of dampness makes 7018's all but worthless.

What qualities do they lose with the dampness? I bought a 1lb box of 7018 to try and they weren't even in plastic. Just a pound of rod in an unsealed cardboard box.

Ian

 

[Gizmo2]

No matter what, I always stick the 7018 for a few seconds to warm it /dry it and have never had an issue with dampness. I do store my rods in an aluminum ice chest cooler that has a 40 watt bulb in it and the bulb is on all the time.