Fatal tractor rollover

[Mace Canute]

Safest method I've seen for pulling is attaching from the back, under the tractor to the front of the tractor. Impossible to flip it over backwards pulling that way. (at least the best method to prevent back flip)


Not to mention it continues to load down the tractor the harder you pull.

Joel

Let's consider this method compared to hooking onto the drawbar. What causes a tractor to go over backwards? The front end comes up and rotates around the rear axle before the tires lose traction. Pulling from a high point increases the mechanical advantage that tends to cause the tractor to go over backwards. If you have hooked to the drawbar, the attachment point lowers farther the higher the front end rises. If you have a chain or cable ran under the tractor, it won't lower the attachment point as the front end rises. It remains where ever it touches the tractor frame. Which situation is safer? I'd have to say attaching to the drawbar.

 

[soulasphil]

It's a great pity accidents like that still happen. The load must be attached as low as possible and preferably with a real hook designed for the job. Old automatic hook from my Massey 35 and more recent JD 3520 automatic hook.

 

[Duffster]

I have seen hundreds of tractors at 45deg up in the air or better by pulling a very heavy load from the drawbar. the only thing that kept them from going over was the guy blowing the whistle and the operator pushed in the clutch or the engine stalled: Think Tractor pull. Again Hundreds of tractors. the only reason it is not thousands is because I quit going to tractor pulls. Don't doubt for a second that pulling against an imoveable object will not put your front end up in the air from the drawbar which is well below the axle line. of course pulling from the top link will put your front end up a whole lot sooner! And now that I have loaded tires and a big counterweight on the back I bet I can pull my front end up pretty easy too! Come to think of it maybe that is why somedealers send out tractors without fluid in the tires and no ballast box. Maybe they are counting on wheel spin to save people from killing themselves with back-flips. Who knows?
James
K0UA

The short length of the chain makes the difference in a tractor pull not to mention they pull from a fairly high point on purpose.

 

[horse7]

Theres been long discussions about "how can you flip a tractor if the load attach point is below the axle...".

It boils down to if the rear tires slip but still have some traction-- which applies torque to the axle-- then the tractor can slip backwards (if the object is immovable) while flipping over (if the object is mobile, the object moves further than the tractor, i.e., the distance between the load and tractor decreases as the tractor pulls the load under and the tractor nose goes up). People think only of the tractor going frontwards but in this case that doesn't necessarily happen, and it doesn't have to go far to go over backwards. If the tires just slip without having enough force to lift the front, you sit there, same if the engine stalls.

I like that automatic hook thingie, seems like a good idea, better than a long drawbar tongue on the tractor that slams into the ground to slow or stop a flip.

 

[1950T]

hitch height for farmstock is 21in. pro & super stock run a bit higher hitches but they allso have wheelie bars/skid bars and cages.

 

[k0ua]

hitch height for farmstock is 21in. pro & super stock run a bit higher hitches but they allso have wheelie bars/skid bars and cages.

Ok on 21 inches, but wouldn't that still be well below the axle line of the tractors involved,? and cannot they still flip over? My point was that some seemed to think it was "impossible" to raise the front end when hooked to the drawbar because it was well below the axle line. It is not. My drawbar is 13 inches, while I havent tried to do it, I bet I could raise the front end. I have also pulled some heavy loads uphill without lifting the front end, but they did move, they were not im-mobile. That was all I was trying to say about the tractor pulls, I am no expert by any means, but they are an example of raising the front end easily. Of course they dont have a loader on the front either.
James
K0UA

 

[Duffster]

Ok on 21 inches, but wouldn't that still be well below the axle line of the tractors involved,? and cannot they still flip over? My point was that some seemed to think it was "impossible" to raise the front end when hooked to the drawbar because it was well below the axle line. It is not. My drawbar is 13 inches, while I havent tried to do it, I bet I could raise the front end. I have also pulled some heavy loads uphill without lifting the front end, but they did move, they were not im-mobile. That was all I was trying to say about the tractor pulls, I am no expert by any means, but they are an example of raising the front end easily. Of course they dont have a loader on the front either.
James
K0UA

Just because you can raise the front end doesn't mean you can flip it over.

 

[1950T]

Ok on 21 inches, but wouldn't that still be well below the axle line of the tractors involved,? and cannot they still flip over? My point was that some seemed to think it was "impossible" to raise the front end when hooked to the drawbar because it was well below the axle line. It is not. My drawbar is 13 inches, while I havent tried to do it, I bet I could raise the front end. I have also pulled some heavy loads uphill without lifting the front end, but they did move, they were not im-mobile. That was all I was trying to say about the tractor pulls, I am no expert by any means, but they are an example of raising the front end easily. Of course they dont have a loader on the front either.
James
K0UA

no loader but most of the guys that are hardcore do weigh the front end for the reason that when that front end comes up all that weigh transfers to the rear. most weight bars on pro's and supers are from 24-30in front of the grill. my 9000 comes in light. i hang 1000lbs on the front and still manage to get the front end up. what does a loader weigh? i notice most here are of the compact/sub compact size id guisimate those loaders weigh between 650-750lbs.

even hooked to the drawbar pulling a 2000lb+ silage wagon ive never had a front end come up.

 

[Cidertom]

Not trying to hyjack the thread, but I'm thinking we should have a firefighters forum on here. To discuss how to get the folks out of the binds they got themselves into. There are enough tractor/ag related incidents, from lawn mower injuries to rolled 8 wheelers.

 

[eepete]

(in a post, I mentioned using the backhoe bucket to pull stuff)

Not sure I would count that has being all that safe

Excuse me for getting back to this a little late in the game.

I'm just curious what others think of this technique- if it's a bad idea I need to do something else. The B21 TLB is such that it would be a pain (or 15 minutes or so) to remove the backhoe to get to the drawbar point.

So what I do is extend the bucket out about six feet from the rear of the tractor, and about 6" above the ground. I then take the chain and come out around the bottom of the bucket to whatever I'm dragging. If the thing I'm dragging gets snagged, the backhoe pulls down as the tractor pulls up and everything comes to a halt. The pull point is further below the rear axel than the drawbar, and you have this big 6 foot thing behind you to keep you from rolling up/popping a wheelie. If the terrain is not flat, I'll have the outriggers about 3" above the ground. Yeah, I'm going slowly enough I can ride the outriggers and boom/bucket height to make it work.

I guess if needed I could rig it up and take some pix, but hopefully my description is clear.

Pete

 

[kebo]

I don't see why that technique would be unsafe as long it's done on level land, or at least pretty close to level. I don't think I would risk it with the tractor sitting on unlevel land (from side to side moreso). Even with the outriggers set out, if it ever started to go over the pad could land on a soft spot and sink in. Also, I would be mindful of the limitations with using the bucket as a pull point. It's not going to be as stout as the drawbar would be. Seems like you've thought it out pretty good.

 

[20 20]

I'll agree with Kebo and would like to add, a BH is for digging while stable and level on the ground, not for skidding logs. I would also be worried about all of the different conections, cylinders, pins, bushings, hoses, busting and possibly causing an accident. With that said I have used a BH to pull a log out of a tight area. I would setup just like I was going to dig extend the bucket out hook a chain then work the BH to pul it closer to the tractor or area I could get to it. It is a slow process but did work well. IMO a tractor with a BH is somewhat unstable especially side to side, pulling logs with it would just make it worse. Just my 2 cents worth, it sounds like you've had luck and seem to feel safe, so do what is needed??????

 

[eepete]

kebo, 20 20 any tilt more than 6 degrees would be a show stopper on this technique, but I would have the outriggers out at more than a few degrees. BH is great for pulling trees out of tight areas, have done that a lot to clear storm damage. It's in "backhoe mode" (outriggers down) when I do this. Also great for holding the tree so you can cut it up and be sure you don't pinch the saw. It's hard to describe when to cut, and what is too much to try to drag. Next big storm, I'm looking forward to using the 4520 to pull from the drawbar. More pull, more weight.

If the log is pulling to the side, I have compensated by swinging the boom.

20 20, I like the "it sounds like you've had luck and seem to feel safe". If this method of dragging is based on luck and a shaky sense of security, sounds like I need to think long and hard about it.

So maybee it's OK if you're really comfortable with your backhoe and go real slow, but looking at your comments I wouldn't recommend it for someone new to tractors.

Amazing how hard it is to explain knowing your equipment and seat of the pants feel... tnx for your comments.

Pete

 

[dave1949]

I think skidding could be hard on the backhoe unless done in moderation with light stuff. I don't like the idea of driving around with the stabilizer pads down. That seems like damage waiting to happen. Better to leave it lay until you have the right implement mounted if at all possible. I can usually shove things out of the way with the FEL bucket and go back later.

Anything small enough to skid that way might be better off chaining to the FEL bucket and driving backwards? I'm sure you aren't doing this often or with big logs.

I have gravitated to mounting the backhoe, doing a list of things with it, then take it off until I just have to have it, or the list is growing and the weather is right.

That's my .02
Dave.

 

[CurlyDave]

I think skidding could be hard on the backhoe unless done in moderation with light stuff...

It seems to me that the backhoe is designed to dig into the earth and exert tremendous pulling forces on the bucket in order to get that earth into the bucket.

So long as the skidding force is less than the digging force, I do not see how the backhoe can be harmed.

 

[dave1949]

It seems to me that the backhoe is designed to dig into the earth and exert tremendous pulling forces on the bucket in order to get that earth into the bucket.

So long as the skidding force is less than the digging force, I do not see how the backhoe can be harmed.

I was thinking more of the lateral forces which will act on the cylinders and linkages that swing the hoe arm left & right than the bucket itself. Anytime the tractor turns, there will be sideways forces applied there that could amount to more than the cylinders themselves are able to apply.

Yes, a backhoe is fairly rugged, and you could lock the swing, but you are still torsioning the dipper/digger arms. Just seems like it is something that might be better avoided for the most part given the price of backhoes.

Your JD 110 TLB is probably a good bit more rugged than the typical CUT backhoe.

I did say it was my .02 :laughing:
Dave.

 

[20 20]

Dave1949, that is a very good point, allmost every excavator and or BH operator I've talked with{including myself} give a huge NO NO :thumbdown: to side to side force with these machines.