F Series vs. ZD

[Hay Dude]

I gaurantee you a ZD-1211-72 rides a lot smoother than a F-3680. I know because I have mowed with both for years over the same lawns. Like I said, the F’s ride is ruined by the small back tires.

It’s not an opinion, but a fact that a 24” diameter tire rides smoother over a bump/hole than a 12” tire.

Another very important consideration that I forgot to mention:
The F mower deck has tiny front tires. This also makes the deck ride rough and if you go fast, it will jump up/down over bumps.

Another very important feature: The F deck requires time and effort to adjust deck height. A ZD zero turn has a hand knob adjustment for deck height. The zero turn mower deck height adjustment is effortless.

The F mower is not easy to do something as minor as a height adjustment on. Removing the deck takes some time and it’s very heavy.

 

[EddieWalker]

My 60 inch zero turn is a Skag. Some of the reasons I bought it was the super comfortable seat. They downgraded that in the newer models, which is a shame. But it's still uncomfortable after an hour of bouncing around. I really like Kawasaki engines over Kohler and Briggs. Mine is water cooled. I was told that would give me 50% more life on the engine over an air cooled engine. I'm not sure if that's true or not, I'll never wear out the engine with the number of hours I mow per year. Everything is super heavy duty.

Issues that I have with it is the electric safety switches. They are pure junk and the source of every issue that I've had. I've lost count in how many times I couldn't get it to start, and then spend days trying to figure it out. First three years where problem free, but once the electrical bugs started, it just kept getting worse!!!!! My final solution was to remove every wire, every safety switch, and everything that required electricity. Then rebuild it with just the bare minimum of what I needed. This included the PTO switch, which I replaced 3 times. Now I have a toggle switch, which has been flawless.

Now that it starts every time, it's a great mower. It's just not fun mowing with it like it is with my tractor.

 

[RjCorazza]

How is power on the zd1211 with 72”. My dealer was saying f2690 might be under powered with a 72”.

The newer aerodynamic decks supposedly reduce HP demands.
Going up a steep grade in heavy grass I can bog the engine, but not in reasonable conditions. My ZD1211 has 1800 hours, and I am satisfied with the HP.
One other note: Kubota specs 30w engine oil in the mower gearbox. I suspect that is to further reduce engine load, but that didn't sit well with me. At the first oil change I put 75w140 gear oil in the gearbox.

 

[Rustyiron]

Do you think the zd or f ride smoother. Seems like haydude thinks zd run smoother. I’ve read other posts who disagree. John Thomas thinks the f series run smoother.

So I’m conflicted. And getting conflicting information.

I kinda think the F is smoother, but it's travel speed was slower as I had up/down hills and it was happier in low range. Also my Z was 27 hp and my very old F2000 was only about 20-22 and has the added drive train mechanical drag that has to account for something.
Take my info with a "grain of salt". My F is probably in no way comparable to a recent or current model. The F2000 was they're very first rear steer commercial model. I bought it used in about 1983-4!

Doesn't Ferris or someone actually have a Z with some type of suspension?

 

[5030]

Contrary to Hay Dude's somewhat slanted opinion (and it is an opinion), more than fact, I'll interject mine as well...

Traded in a 60" Cub Tank for an F series front mount and I'm quite pleased with it. One, it's much more fuel efficient than the gas powered ZTR was and overall engine life is probably 5 times that of the gas motor and yes, you can get a diesel in a ZTR but the cost will pit it up near an F series anyway.

I don't find the ride on the F series punishing at all but then I don't mow at warp factor 1 either. I always mow at a sane, relaxed pace. Far as deck adjustment, I will agree that an F series deck is somewhat tedoi9us to change the height on but I don't change my cutting height anyway. I get it set and leave it there.

Far as an F series being a single use machine, there are a number of acessories you can replace the mower with, power brooms and snow throwers are a few.

Nice thing about an F seies that I like besides the very quiet diesel engine and the hydro is it's high residual resale / trade in value. You buy a gas ZTR and use it a couple years and want to trade up, that gasser isn't worth much whereas the F series or the John Deere front mount diesel mower will be.

Finally, mowing 3 times the area on 1/3 the fuel (diesel compared to a gasser) really appeals to me and my F series burns the same red dyed off road diesel my diesel tractors do so I don't need extra fuel cans at all.

 

[CigTopGun38]

Contrary to Hay Dude's somewhat slanted opinion (and it is an opinion), more than fact, I'll interject mine as well...

Traded in a 60" Cub Tank for an F series front mount and I'm quite pleased with it. One, it's much more fuel efficient than the gas powered ZTR was and overall engine life is probably 5 times that of the gas motor and yes, you can get a diesel in a ZTR but the cost will pit it up near an F series anyway.

I don't find the ride on the F series punishing at all but then I don't mow at warp factor 1 either. I always mow at a sane, relaxed pace. Far as deck adjustment, I will agree that an F series deck is somewhat tedoi9us to change the height on but I don't change my cutting height anyway. I get it set and leave it there.

Far as an F series being a single use machine, there are a number of acessories you can replace the mower with, power brooms and snow throwers are a few.

Nice thing about an F seies that I like besides the very quiet diesel engine and the hydro is it's high residual resale / trade in value. You buy a gas ZTR and use it a couple years and want to trade up, that gasser isn't worth much whereas the F series or the John Deere front mount diesel mower will be.

Finally, mowing 3 times the area on 1/3 the fuel (diesel compared to a gasser) really appeals to me and my F series burns the same red dyed off road diesel my diesel tractors do so I don't need extra fuel cans at all.

Can you comment what rpm and speed you mow at? Do you mow at high or low range?

 

[MMC]

Have been doing a ton of research regarding f series vs zero turns. Right now mowing with a John Deere 770 with 86” finish mower.

I have about 5-6 acres to mow. I’ve been leaning towards a f series because of its versatility. But I read that they are slow and rough compared to a zd zero turn.

I don’t have many hills but I’m struggling to rationalize 20k on a piece of equipment that only does one thing. At the same time I don’t want to compromise.

I have to imagine both machines would be faster than my current setup.

Any feedback is appreciated.

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I read Haydude's summary on ZTRs vs Kubota's F series and I basically agree with his points, having owned ZTRs and now also a used F2680E. The Kubota is a used unit with less than 500hrs - bought it to back up a diesel BadBoy 60" ZTR with a Cat/Perkins engine. In essence, the Kubota will mow cattle feed lots/pens and inside fences, to a certain extent. And give an ancient 1969 John Deere 140 with a Kohler engine a bit of a rest after a half century of use...

I have been going through the Kubota in the shop, basically bringing it back up to an almost new starting point. I will observe that this unit is more heavily built than I thought. If you buy one, you will have it for a long time... This one runs the same engine as my Kubota RTV which has well over 2000 hrs without any major issues at all.

As to ride, yep, the tractor will ride smoother, just as others note. But, you do not appear to have a lot of rough area, so perhaps the difference in the Kubota F and the ZTR might not be be as pronounced. But...for either one, get the best seat/and suspension offered. That really makes a difference, well worth the money.

And, since you're talking some large coin here, have you considered a Ferris ZTR. I had a 4500 with a 60" deck and 30+ HP Vanguard engine at one time. The Ferris suspension was (and probably is) the gold standard for ride when coupled with a great seat. Still miss that mower, but got tired of hauling gas to that big Vanguard... Hey, I got diesel anytime I need it on the farm. And, if you're going to run a heavy mower with a 72" deck and a diesel tractor, why not have one fuel on hand in your own tank? Makes life a heck of a lot easier...

As to your tractor, 1650 hours is really nothing for a diesel if well maintained. Snowblower - front mounts are pricey, but I run an 8 foot "pull" type (reversed). That configuration is great unless you have 4-5 foot drifts... You could certainly find a smaller pull type to fit your tractor to save some money.

Just my opinion, naturally.

Best of Luck.

 

[Cycledude]

I’m about to drop 24k on this Kubota…the scag zero turns I think are cheaper?

Maybe I’m expecting too much from these machines? I realize they won’t ride like Cadillacs but I do want something faster than my JD that only goes 3mph.

New Scag would probably cost well over $30,000

 

[Hay Dude]

Kubota diesel zero turn is also much cheaper to buy & easier/cheaper to maintain than an F.

You have to remember, the F has a live rear drive axle (it looks like a BX-2200 axle mounted backwards). This axle requires maintenance and has 2 more tires to replace/maintain. The smallish tires wear out fairly fast because they steer, scrub and take a lot of punishment.
To operate the rear axle, there’s an additional driveshaft & U-joints.
There’s also a steering wheel with linkage, compared to a ZD which has levers operating the hydraulics to each wheel.

The F is overall a considerably more complex machine.

New, they are $31,000+
A new ZD-1211-72 is about $21,000

There’s also a 1611 with a bigger motor and more features for about $25,000

 

[EddieWalker]

I paid $8,000 for my Scag back in 2011. It doesn't feel that long ago, but 14 years has passed pretty quickly!!!! I'm in total shock that the prices have gone up that much since then.

 

[aesanders]

Personally, I would get a Grasshopper 700 or 900 series (they come with Kubota diesel), and are both front mount machines.

Lots of front mounted accessories for these also.


Here is a YouTube video on a 900D (which is probably more machine than you need, I’d start with looking at a 700D).

 

[Hay Dude]

They are a damn good machine, too.
I like Hopper, Ferris and Kubota the best for heavy homeowner or commercial use.

 

[MMC]

I paid $8,000 for my Scag back in 2011. It doesn't feel that long ago, but 14 years has passed pretty quickly!!!! I'm in total shock that the prices have gone up that much since then.

Which may argue for investing time and a few minor repairs in a used, low hour, commercial unit for many of us. I picked up that F2680E I mentioned for $6300 plus shipping. Looked almost new when it came off the trailer with about 460 Hrs on it. And looked new when I pulled maintenance on it (after buying all its parts manuals and shop manuals).

Haydude's right about one thing. Kubota did not spare the grease fittings, which I personally like. And a full maintenance run on the Kubota F does take some time. But it is certainly a quality, heavy built unit. My neighbor has a Kubota diesel ZTR with a 60" deck however, and he really likes it as well. No real repair issues with his machine in over 10 years of use. And I can't say he does anywhere near the maintenance that I do on my machines...

 

[CigTopGun38]

Personally, I would get a Grasshopper 700 or 900 series (they come with Kubota diesel), and are both front mount machines.

Lots of front mounted accessories for these also.


Here is a YouTube video on a 900D (which is probably more machine than you need, I’d start with looking at a 700D).

I’ve watched that video before. The grasshoppers are nice. I don’t think I have a dealer close unfortunately. The other issue with grasshopper or any zero turn is they are 2 wheel drive. Using them to plow or for any snow removal is not happening. Maybe on flat land. But up here it’s all hills.

Think I need to figure out if I just want a grass unit or all purpose. But it feels like a compromise based on people’s feedback here.

 

[oldnslo]

I’m about to drop 24k on this Kubota…the scag zero turns I think are cheaper?

Maybe I’m expecting too much from these machines? I realize they won’t ride like Cadillacs but I do want something faster than my JD that only goes 3mph.

Your JD goes faster than 3 MPH you just couldn’t stand the ride. Do you really expect a zero turn to be smoother?

 

[CigTopGun38]

Your JD goes faster than 3 MPH you just couldn’t stand the ride. Do you really expect a zero turn to be smoother?

Good point.

It does go faster…but it beats the crap out of the equipment. I don’t mind it so much beating my body up. But I care about my tractor getting demolished.

 

[WM75Guy]

Neither one can compare to a tractor as far as the ride. I have a ZD1211 60" for doing the finished yard around the buildings. I bought a used F2560 72" to mow an acre or two of rougher areas under some trees. Probably because of the slower speed I mowed at, I preferred the F2560 as far as a comfortable ride over rough ground than the ZD1211. On smooth ground the ZD1211 would outmow the F2560, even with a smaller deck.

I had to replace the F2560 mower gearbox as I was asking too much of it on the weeds and brush. I traded it in on a NH 25S with a 60" mid-mount mower to mow the rough areas. In the spring I am going to try the 25S with my Ag Meier 72" rear finish mower to alleviate the dust issue from a mid-mount mower.

 

[5030]

Can you comment what rpm and speed you mow at? Do you mow at high or low range?

I hardly ever run at rated (PTO) rpm, usually about half rated rpm actually and always in low range because I'm never in any big hurry to mow the yards.

One thing that is supremely important to me is the ability of the front mount deck to get under trees and we have a lot of pines on the property and that ability really cuts down on trimming with a gas powered trimmer. I was always poking my arms and face with the mid mount zero turn mower, trying to get under trees. That issue is gone now.

Never been a hurry to mow or finish mowing. For me, mowing is a quiet time away from people and I mow 3 properties besides the farm yard.

My wife still has her zero turn mower but she has a steering wheel and not the oars and so does my F series. I don't like the oars myself, never have but that is a personal preference for me (and my wife). One thing i do know and that is, her 27 horse Kohler uses 2 times the fuel my Kubota diesel does and it's a lot noiser as well plus it has way more belts. Ny F series is all drive shaft except the wide, multi belt that drives the spindles which run in an oil bath unlike her ZTR which has greasable spindles and multiple belts, everywhere and yes the F series is really a Kubota B series tractor backwards. I'm happy with mine and candidly, that is all that counts for me and I fully expect it to outlast me and probably my wife as well.

 

[Carl_NH]

Know you are looking for a Kubota but here is a 72" Ferris gas 3000 series in NY for $11,500 - full suspension - 160 hrs - they are great riding machines. Log into Facebook

 

[RjCorazza]

Know you are looking for a Kubota but here is a 72" Ferris gas 3000 series in NY for $11,500 - full suspension - 160 hrs - they are great riding machines. Log into Facebook

Ferris has a good reputation, especially for the comfort of their suspension. I do wish Kubota would come up with something similar, or licence Ferris' suspension system.
The real problem (from my point of view) is the big gasoline mowers go through a lot of fuel compared to a diesel of similar capabilities.