Dealers Not Accepting Some Brands on Trade

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I think as the popularity increases the off brand tractor will become more acceptable to dealers,the newer brands need a better network of dealers and staff who are competent to handle working on them.They have their work cut out for them competing with over hundred year old manufacturers who have a history

Nope
You can have any of these brands as popular of what you think are the major brands and still not have dealers not take them in as trades.
You can only stock so many parts.
Plus, try and find a "tractor service tech" nowadays.

 

[Torvy]

Not many chinese tractors being discussed here.

True. There are a few unscrupulous or uninformed dealers who tell customers that Korean or Indian branded tractors are Chinese junk.

To those who think we buy better value because we cannot spend more...think again. I could absolutely have bought a JD or Kubota. I could also have bought a Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc. instead of our Outback. I guess I am not infatuated with brand names and I don't buy things with a thought into what someone else may think years down the line.

 

[350c]

This is not surprising. Dealers having a hard time selling their new inventory don't want used tractors that are less expensive competing. Now that brands are getting better, many don't want their customers to see the quality side by side as it undermines their false narrative about competitors being junk.

When cars from Japan started to make inroads, dealers tried the same thing. Either no trade or horrible pricing to dissuade the trade.

The simple fact that the customer is trying to trade his tractor for a different brand may be a good indication that he thinks the other brand is better than what he is trying to trade. If what he has is a good tractor, why go to another brand?

 

[troverman]

Rather than label an entire manufacturer's product line as "junk," a better term might be how trustworthy a brand is. I think everyone acknowledges JD and Kubota are extremely trustworthy (there are other brands too, especially as you get into large Ag tractors, but I think we're primarily referring to utility and compact and sub-compact tractors here). What I mean by "trustworthy" has nothing to do necessarily with reliability or durability...but rather the likelihood that the brand will remain in business indefinitely and will have parts available almost indefinitely (especially Deere), and will have a very legitimate warranty and repair operation. Value brands have a certain likelihood of either merging, being bought out, name changes, and going out of business completely. Parts availability can be sketchy, dealer coverage can vary from great to weak to non-existent. And good luck with warranty after one brand gobbles up another when it comes to tractors or machinery in general.

There will be hundreds of people that will claim their value brand tractor is definitely not junk because they've owned it for years and many hours and it has done everything they wanted and had very little to nothing go wrong. And I believe them - so while their machines are not "junk" by any means, the brand they chose may well not be "trustworthy."

That said, if you look at Kioti vs Kubota, there is an incredible parallel between these two and the automaker Hyundai-Kia vs Honda / Toyota. In the case of the vehicles, Hyundai and Kia started out as very, very basic...overall poor quality but acceptable reliability, very cheap price, and a good warranty. Today they are fully competitive with the previously "premium" Japanese mainstream automakers Honda and Toyota. Maybe not in every way or every model, but quite competitive and priced nearly identically. Kioti has clearly tried very hard to emulate Kubota, by using the same color and offering similar models...but at a better price. The other thing Kioti has tried to do (similar to the Korean automakers vs the Japanese) is to offer more standard features. For example, on a given size tractor, a rear remote might be standard on the Kioti but optional on the Kubota. Deere is perhaps the worst value in the entire tractor market, charging more to begin with and making nearly everything optional, but has even better resale value than Kubota. I don't think its a bad thing if the value brands start offering more standard features, as eventually this puts pressure on the major brands to do the same.

As a final note, its worth noting there are plenty of Chinese parts on the "premium" brands. Heck, a number of Deere tractors are made in India, same as Mahindra. I noticed the lift cylinders on the front end loader of my brand new 60HP Kubota have "China" stamped into them. I noticed the very expensive hydraulic and HST transmission filters of Kubota tractors are made in China, although the quality appears to be very good.

For me, I'm still buying a Kubota or Deere, because they are more trustworthy and - in my opinion - an overall better tractor. But its a free country, buy whatever you like.

 

[LouNY]

Rather than label an entire manufacturer's product line as "junk," a better term might be how trustworthy a brand is. I think everyone acknowledges JD and Kubota are extremely trustworthy (there are other brands too, especially as you get into large Ag tractors, but I think we're primarily referring to utility and compact and sub-compact tractors here). What I mean by "trustworthy" has nothing to do necessarily with reliability or durability...but rather the likelihood that the brand will remain in business indefinitely and will have parts available almost indefinitely (especially Deere), and will have a very legitimate warranty and repair operation. Value brands have a certain likelihood of either merging, being bought out, name changes, and going out of business completely. Parts availability can be sketchy, dealer coverage can vary from great to weak to non-existent. And good luck with warranty after one brand gobbles up another when it comes to tractors or machinery in general.

There will be hundreds of people that will claim their value brand tractor is definitely not junk because they've owned it for years and many hours and it has done everything they wanted and had very little to nothing go wrong. And I believe them - so while their machines are not "junk" by any means, the brand they chose may well not be "trustworthy."

That said, if you look at Kioti vs Kubota, there is an incredible parallel between these two and the automaker Hyundai-Kia vs Honda / Toyota. In the case of the vehicles, Hyundai and Kia started out as very, very basic...overall poor quality but acceptable reliability, very cheap price, and a good warranty. Today they are fully competitive with the previously "premium" Japanese mainstream automakers Honda and Toyota. Maybe not in every way or every model, but quite competitive and priced nearly identically. Kioti has clearly tried very hard to emulate Kubota, by using the same color and offering similar models...but at a better price. The other thing Kioti has tried to do (similar to the Korean automakers vs the Japanese) is to offer more standard features. For example, on a given size tractor, a rear remote might be standard on the Kioti but optional on the Kubota. Deere is perhaps the worst value in the entire tractor market, charging more to begin with and making nearly everything optional, but has even better resale value than Kubota. I don't think its a bad thing if the value brands start offering more standard features, as eventually this puts pressure on the major brands to do the same.

As a final note, its worth noting there are plenty of Chinese parts on the "premium" brands. Heck, a number of Deere tractors are made in India, same as Mahindra. I noticed the lift cylinders on the front end loader of my brand new 60HP Kubota have "China" stamped into them. I noticed the very expensive hydraulic and HST transmission filters of Kubota tractors are made in China, although the quality appears to be very good.

For me, I'm still buying a Kubota or Deere, because they are more trustworthy and - in my opinion - an overall better tractor. But its a free country, buy whatever you like.

That is some convoluted logic for sure.

When I think of all the big so called major brands that have gone out of existence in the recent past.
Oliver, Allis Chalmers, Farmall, IH, White, AGCO, Massy Harris, Ferguson, Challenger and numerous others that were "major" brands not to long ago.

 

[Torvy]

The simple fact that the customer is trying to trade his tractor for a different brand may be a good indication that he thinks the other brand is better than what he is trying to trade. If what he has is a good tractor, why go to another brand?

You are assuming facts not in evidence. Sometimes people trade tractors because they want a bigger size. Not all manufacturers make big AG sized tractors.

Sometimes people trade across brands because the dealers who sell their current brand know what is wrong with their individual tractor and what kind of abuse it has taken from them. People do this with cars, especially after accidents. Often, a problem with a piece of equipment has nothing to do with brand and everything to do with abuse.

Sometimes the issue is with the local dealer and not the brand. In my case, the JD dealers are not worth my business. The large corporate network in our area has made them difficult for small operators. If I had a JD when I moved here, I would likely have traded it for something else due to the dealers.

 

[troverman]

To those who think we buy better value because we cannot spend more...think again. I could absolutely have bought a JD or Kubota. I could also have bought a Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc. instead of our Outback. I guess I am not infatuated with brand names and I don't buy things with a thought into what someone else may think years down the line.

I'm not sure your argument is super valid when it comes to buying a tractor vs buying a car. If there was only one Subaru dealer near you and the next one was 100 miles away, and Subaru had a reputation of not being able to get repair parts in a timely manner (or at all), and many other non-Subaru dealers had no interest in ever taking your car in trade...you might very well have thought about buying a different brand. I think your claim is that you don't care about buying a "brand name" so to speak, believing you are only paying extra for the well known name and otherwise the products are comparable. That might work in the automobile world, but is much more of a gamble in the machinery world, in my experience.

Yeah, they all break down, maybe at the same exact rate. Heck, maybe the "premium" brands break down more than the value brands. I could buy a Doosan excavator - value brand from Korea - instead of a Cat or Deere. It will be cheaper, and it will do the same thing the premium brands do. But if it breaks down, can I have parts for it right away? Is there a dealer with a mobile mechanic in a big Doosan service truck that will be there right away on my jobsite like Cat and Deere will? Nope. Will it bring in the resale value when its time to trade it or sell it off? Nope. Will it last as long? Who knows. And getting back to the actual product - the so-called premium companies tend to have been making the products for a very long time. They know how to make a very refined, well made product that works very well for its intended purpose. The newer value brands try their hardest to copy the latest thing, but ultimately, again in my experience - its not quite as good. Years of experience aren't worth nothing at all when it comes to manufacturers.

 

[troverman]

That is some convoluted logic for sure.

When I think of all the big so called major brands that have gone out of existence in the recent past.
Oliver, Allis Chalmers, Farmall, IH, White, AGCO, Massy Harris, Ferguson, Challenger and numerous others that were "major" brands not to long ago.

When some of the brands you mentioned were in business (Allis-Chalmers, Farmall, IH, Ferguson, etc, etc...value brands didn't exist.

 

[Torvy]

Trover, your ignorance is showing. Doosan is Bobcat's parent. Just because they don't have a name familiar to you does not make them bad.

Also, there were lots of value brands back in the day. John Deere was a value brand in the tractor market (they started out making plows). That is until they got better at making tractors and marketing got better, too. The vast number of brands helped to keep prices down. The big two are actively working to imply that other brands are junk because they like the higher margins they get from the reputation. Once more people realize that most tractors are well made, they will not pay the premium.

 

[2manyrocks]

The simple fact that the customer is trying to trade his tractor for a different brand may be a good indication that he thinks the other brand is better than what he is trying to trade. If what he has is a good tractor, why go to another brand?

In my case, I own a Mahindra 3525 (770 hours) that has worked fine for 9 years but recently started having weak brakes. When I took them apart, I found a small amount of oil from the transmission case appears to be leaking from the bull pinion shaft. I have called the Mahindra dealer that sold it to me several times over the past 4 months. Neither the parts guy or the repair service guy will talk on the phone or return calls even after I spoke to the owner.

Tried again yesterday, the service guy still doesn't answer phone calls to discuss repairing my tractor. I did find out that the parts guy has quit and the new replacement told me the former parts guy wasn't even ordering parts for their own service department and a bunch of customers are upset. Then they put me on hold yet again....and I have yet to get any kind of repair estimate from them.

There is another dealer about 60 miles from me, but I haven't dealt with them and have been told different opinions about them.

There are 4 decent Kubota dealers in my area, all of which are closer. They might charge me an arm and a leg to repair a Kubota, but at least I think I could get a Kubota repaired.

If I had a dealer or independent shop that I could trust to repair my Mahindra, I'd probably keep it. But I've had enough of the Mahindra dealership to the point that I'm willing to take a loss to get on with life.

I could however say that I think it's poor quality to have bull pinion seals fail at 770 hours and that it's poor design to have them only be replaceable by having to disassemble the tractor to replace them inside the transmission case instead of making them externally replaceable.

If I had bought a Kubota to begin with, I'd have saved myself a lot of time, money and aggravation.