Could air cause this issue???

[/pine]

No. Do it in the two spool. Basically air test the return to rank circuit

OK will do...will also see if the original valve performs the same...

 

[/pine]

It might be a good ideal to step back and look everything over real good. Make yourself a drawing of the plumbing with one of the 2 spool valves hooked up and not guess while making up the drawing. If it looks ok to you then post your drawing.

I did this originally when I first hooked up the splitter...the only difference is adding the second cylinder and the valve...plumbing is not the problem...

 

[Leejohn]

This was asked before but I must of missed your reply. What 2 posts are you using from the splitter cyl. A,B,C,D?

 

[SIMassey]

If you pull the line and crack a valve as I suggested, you are confirming 100% weather the problem is the valve (no oil coming out), or something else with the setup or DW (oil would come out and cylinder move).

Valves get tricky if you dont follow the instructions to the letter. Multiple places to hook a tank return line and/or PB plug. Adding the PB cartridge and using another tank port to have two outlets (if using PB), if not using PB, most joystick or two spool valves have 2 or 3 places that a return line "can" be hooked in. Knowing which one to hook in and which ones to block off depends on setup. (open center, closed center, PB). Easy to get confused.

From the information from Prince,there is only one port that is used for PB, it is on the right side closest to the levers. There are two ports in and three ports out. Both have a top and side location. The third out port could be the PB port without the PB plug. As LD1 said blow air into the in side of the new valve and operate each lever. Air should escape out of one port or the other lever forward or back. If it does not on the left lever, its probably the load check not operating. The left lever appears to be designated as boom lift since the right spool has no check. From the drawing from prince, it is located on the back side of the valve, opposite the relief. It has an o-ring so you should be able to remove it and reinstall it without leaks. Check for moving parts that are stuck. I wonder the hole could be plugged without affecting the function except for no load check which is not required in this application. The load check has to shift fron the fluid blocked position to either let oil in or out of one side of the cylinder. Thats why I think its the load check causing the cylinder to "lock up".

 

[/pine]

From the information from Prince,there is only one port that is used for PB, it is on the right side closest to the levers. There are two ports in and three ports out. Both have a top and side location. The third out port could be the PB port without the PB plug. As LD1 said blow air into the in side of the new valve and operate each lever. Air should escape out of one port or the other lever forward or back. If it does not on the left lever, its probably the load check not operating. The left lever appears to be designated as boom lift since the right spool has no check. From the drawing from prince, it is located on the back side of the valve, opposite the relief. It has an o-ring so you should be able to remove it and reinstall it without leaks. Check for moving parts that are stuck. I wonder the hole could be plugged without affecting the function except for no load check which is not required in this application. The load check has to shift fron the fluid blocked position to either let oil in or out of one side of the cylinder. Thats why I think its the load check causing the cylinder to "lock up".

I will look into this (load check)...but the exact same issue occurs using two different two spool valves...the first one is the brand new Prince MB...the other is an almost new Cross industrial valve...either valve same problem...!

 

[/pine]

One more thing I don't think I mentioned is and don't know if it's significant...(in regard to check/load valves etc.)
The very first time I started the DW with the new Prince MB two spool valve...the new lift cylinder (which previously had zero fluid) extended almost fully before locking up...at this time I was trying to get rid of air (thinking that was the issue) and I was able to bleed a lot of aerated fluid...but the end result was/is the same...it makes sense that the fluid pressure was compressing the air thus leaving room for fluid that could not return...

This may or may not be the significant part in reference to any load/check valves etc...with the DW shut down and the cylinders locked...every time the the spool was engaged the lift cylinder (which was under a very slight load of the lift leg) would extract a fraction (maybe an 1/8th of an inch at most) then stop...but every time the lever was moved it would move another fraction...??

 

[muddstopper]

PIne, where are you located in NE GA, I will be driving thru Clayton heading toward Hiawasse ga, tomorrow evening, coming from Columbia SC, via Westmesister, I might could swing your direction and stop by for a look see.

If this route is anywhere close, drop me a PM with a phone number so i can get directions

 

[LD1]

PIne, where are you located in NE GA, I will be driving thru Clayton heading toward Hiawasse ga, tomorrow evening, coming from Columbia SC, via Westmesister, I might could swing your direction and stop by for a look see.

If this route is anywhere close, drop me a PM with a phone number so i can get directions

I hope he lives close to your route and you guys can work something out. This is puzzling indeed and a second set of eyes from someone who is familiar with hydraulics certainly wouldnt hurt anything.

 

[J_J]

He has stated that the the IN port and the OUT port are functioning correctly.

He has not connected two hoses, without QD's to the same spool and placed the hoses in a bucket and verified that the lever will control flow to both hoses.

If the flow to both hoses are the same, then the cyl should work as advertised.

If the valve is a two spool valve, does either spool work correctly.

He mentioned load check valves. The purpose of load checks to to prevent the load shifting when the levers are moved and to prevent the load from pushing fluid back into the IN port.

Two valves with the same problem is unlikely. Remove all QD's for any test. Use couplings or unions.

Why have you not showed us a video of the operation with details.

What is in the PB port?

 

[/pine]

PIne, where are you located in NE GA, I will be driving thru Clayton heading toward Hiawasse ga, tomorrow evening, coming from Columbia SC, via Westmesister, I might could swing your direction and stop by for a look see.

If this route is anywhere close, drop me a PM with a phone number so i can get directions

I would love to demonstrate the problem for you mudstopper...and you would not be that far from my place...however I'm working about 50 miles away from home for the next several days...my hours have been hectic this week...

He has not connected two hoses, without QD's to the same spool and placed the hoses in a bucket and verified that the lever will control flow to both hoses...

I will do this as soon as possible...inclement weather has prevented me from doing much since I made sure the pressure line is pumping fluid to the tank...

...Two valves with the same problem is unlikely. Remove all QD's for any test. Use couplings or unions.

Why have you not showed us a video of the operation with details.

What is in the PB port?

I will remove the QD's and make a couple of short videos ASAP...The carry over plug is NOT installed and the PB port is plugged with a steel plug...

 

[SIMassey]

He mentioned load check valves. The purpose of load checks to to prevent the load shifting when the levers are moved and to prevent the load from pushing fluid back into the IN port.

I'm trying to learn something here. Does the load checks block flow, in or out of one side of the cylinder. Does the load check have to shift with hydraulic pressure to allow flow either in or out. If so,the system needs to be pressurized to raise or lower the load. Does a single load check work for both spools as this valve has.

 

[J_J]

Each spool has a load check.

LOAD CHECK (Sometimes called lift-check). This is a feature which will keep a given load from dropping as the control valve
spool is being shifted until the inlet pressure and flow is equal to a greater load requirement. At this time the load check will open and
movement of the load can then be controlled by control valve spool. Please note that the load check has nothing to do with the load
holding ability of the valve when the spool is in the neutral position, only when the spool is being shifted.

 

[J_J]

If there is a plug in the PB port, then the tank/OUT port should be going to tank.

If your hoses from the log splitter is feeding any other hyd function downstream, then you should be using the PB port with adapter, and tank/OUT port going to a return line/tank.

 

[SIMassey]

Each spool has a load check.

LOAD CHECK (Sometimes called lift-check). This is a feature which will keep a given load from dropping as the control valve
spool is being shifted until the inlet pressure and flow is equal to a greater load requirement. At this time the load check will open and
movement of the load can then be controlled by control valve spool. Please note that the load check has nothing to do with the load
holding ability of the valve when the spool is in the neutral position, only when the spools being shifted.

Thanks, this makes sense. Based on that explanation, they would not cause the OP's cylinder to stall like I thought. Not hijacking the thread, just trying to understand function of the valves in this application.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I'm trying to learn something here. Does the load checks block flow, in or out of one side of the cylinder. Does the load check have to shift with hydraulic pressure to allow flow either in or out. If so,the system needs to be pressurized to raise or lower the load. ?? Does a single load check work for both spools as this valve has.

Each spool has a load check.

LOAD CHECK (Sometimes called lift-check). This is a feature which will keep a given load from dropping as the control valve
spool is being shifted until the inlet pressure and flow is equal to a greater load requirement. At this time the load check will open and
movement of the load can then be controlled by control valve spool. Please note that the load check has nothing to do with the load
holding ability of the valve when the spool is in the neutral position, only when the spool is being shifted.

That would be yes ... but for the fact that shifting the spool opposite bypasses the check on the side that is under pressure of holding a load. -- Thus you can lower the load w/o pressure.
larry

 

[muddstopper]

I would love to demonstrate the problem for you mudstopper...and you would not be that far from my place...however I'm working about 50 miles away from home for the next several days...my hours have been hectic this week...


I will do this as soon as possible...inclement weather has prevented me from doing much since I made sure the pressure line is pumping fluid to the tank...



I will remove the QD's and make a couple of short videos ASAP...The carry over plug is NOT installed and the PB port is plugged with a steel plug...

Pine, I dont live but about 20 min from the Hiawassee area, you didnt say where your located, but If its not far, I can swing over this weekend. If you dont get it figured out give me a shout and I will see if I can make the trip.

 

[/pine]

Update (but nothing really new):
It was too dark to make any videos...may be able to make some tomorrow...

I connected the Cross two spool valve (no PB) to the DW and ran hoses with no QDs from the working ports of one of the spools into a jug...and no it did not perform the way it should when the lever was engaged...What it did was for the first couple of seconds it pumped fluid from just one port then started coming from both ports (this is what it has done from the onset with either of the two spool valves when first engaged...i.e., a cylinder would extend normally for a two to 3 seconds then they would both be locked up) or was obvious from the lock up...! The 2-3 second initial movement only occurs after changing out the valve...fwtw...

It was hard to see and manipulate the hoses/jug and operate the valve and the 2 gal. jug I was using filled up fast...but this showed that there is a difference in the original valve and either of the two spool valves...As I related from my test with the Prince valve and the clear hose between the working ports...it works correctly with low air pressure (one direction or the other depending on the way the lever was engaged and either way out the return)...
...when hooked to the DW with fluid pressure...SOMETHING is changing...but what?
As I related the original single spool works either the lift or the splitter valve independently no problem..All I know about this valve is it was originally installed on the DW to power a horizontal boring attachment...could there be some type of check either in the P or T lines either at the manifold (see previously posted pic) or on the return?

As the evidence indicates a typical two spool valve plumbed using the auxiliary lines on the DW is not working for an undermined reason...so I'm going to pursue trying either the backhoe ports or the PB port on the DW manifold...

However in the interim (while waiting on fittings/adapters) I am open to any and all suggestions...my time frame schedule is a bit whacky right now and with the cold temps I can't always achieve much...I have plenty of split wood so there is no time frame...

I truly believe I have eliminated any doubts about plumbing/QD issues...I realize the first simple solution (after plumbing/QD issues) is both the two spool valves are bad...but I just don't think so...

A few things I'm thinking about trying ...

1.) connecting the original (single spool) up and using one of the working ports and a bungee on the lever...plumbing it into one of the two spool IN ports and run a return back to the tank..don't know if this will do a thing but I do know the original single spool works fine (stand alone)...and putting it first in a series with one of the two spool valves may do something ...I'm still lost...!

2. Basically do the same as above only using one of the remotes on the k_ubota, holding the lever with a bungee and supplying one of the two spool valves for the lift/splitter....and a return to tank line... this would be a different test of the two spool valves taking any DW pump/system possibilities out of the picture...???

I promise to all that have followed/contributed to this thread that I will do everything possible to get it resolved and post anything pertinent or requested...

 

[Dutch445]

I will remove the QD's and make a couple of short videos ASAP...The carry over plug is NOT installed and the PB port is plugged with a steel plug...

Have you tried this with that steel plug in the PB port removed?
the thinking is if this is an open center supply from the DW maybe that port needs the
plug removed?

 

[/pine]

Have you tried this with that steel plug in the PB port removed?
the thinking is if this is an open center supply from the DW maybe that port needs the
plug removed?

Without the carry over (PB) plug installed...the PB and the OUT ports are linked could be using either one...also the 'Cross' valve has no PB and it does the same thing as the Prince valve...!

 

[LD1]

1. Wont change a thing.
2. Like the idea. Hook it to the Kubota, but still don't think it will change anything.

Now about the bucket test you just did, you move the lever and got flow from both hoses. Did it do that on BOTH spool sections? And did it do it moving the lever BOTH directions? And was the flow out both hoses pretty well equal in volume?

Only time fluid should come out both is a regen circuit, but that would only be one direction, not both, thus the question above.

Have either of these valves been disassembled? Perhaps out back together wrong?

Other than something not right with the PB, which is still a high possibility, itslooking like a pair of bad valves at this point.

When using a PB valve as actual PB, there are TWO paths for oil to exit the valve. With the spools in neutral, it exits via the PB port and downstream to other valves. When operating a lever, fluid no longer goes out the PB, instead it goes to the cylinder and returning fluid exita via a tank port and back to tank and NOT downstream to another valve.

If you can understand that, your symptoms seem to be as if the valve is set up for PB, and the tank lime is hooked there, but once a lever is pulled, there is no where for oil to go since the return line is hooked to a PB port.

Still don't explain oil coming out of both ports though, unless having a PB plug in and tank ports blocked is forcing oil back into that second cylinder port.