Could air cause this issue???

[/pine]

1. Wont change a thing.
2. Like the idea. Hook it to the Kubota, but still don't think it will change anything.

Now about the bucket test you just did, you move the lever and got flow from both hoses. Did it do that on BOTH spool sections? And did it do it moving the lever BOTH directions? And was the flow out both hoses pretty well equal in volume?

Only time fluid should come out both is a regen circuit, but that would only be one direction, not both, thus the question above.

Have either of these valves been disassembled? Perhaps out back together wrong?

Certainly looking like a pair of bad valves at this point.

Like I said it was hard to hold and watch the hoses in the pail and work the lever...Only connected to one spool and it seemed to work fine (as in the past) for a second or two...but was definitely getting fluid from both at the same time...one with more pressure than the other...This goes along with the way the cylinders acted after they locked up...the rod would seem to pulse (very slightly extend or retract then do the opposite)... will try and get a video of the initial movement then ASAP...

If I connect one of the new two spool valves to a set of remotes on the k_ubota (and bungee cord) and both the splitter and the lift works it will eliminate everything but the DW...and you (LD1) had previously mentioned doing this...just so much time...!

 

[Leejohn]

I have never done this, so this is going to be a guess. If the DW flow is way higher then the valve can handle could it do this? The DW would have to go into relief and you not knowing or hearing it. I know going the other way ( low flow to a high flow valve ) doesn't or can't do what it's doing.

 

[/pine]

I have never done this, so this is going to be a guess. If the DW flow is way higher then the valve can handle could it do this? The DW would have to go into relief and you not knowing or hearing it. I know going the other way ( low flow to a high flow valve ) doesn't or can't do what it's doing.

The DW puts out 9 GPM max and the lessor of the two, two spool valves I have tried is rated at 8 GPM nominal so I don't see that as an issue...the Cross valve which I do not have any documentation on is a much larger (industrial) valve...

If my schedule and the weather permit tomorrow...I should be able to test either of the two spool valves using the k_ubota hydraulics and provide some answers that so far I have been unable to (or at least confirm)....

 

[muddstopper]

Today is a pretty day, with snow called for tonite. Hopefully you get a chance to work on this because I really want to now what the problem is. I will be driving back thru Sunday and now that I know Its only 4 or 5 miles out of my way, I can stop by for a few minutes. probably be around 6pm before I can get there tho. Let me now what you discover.

 

[/pine]

First I am sorry I was not able to get to this point any sooner...but I have been able to reduce some of the mystery...

The Cross two spool valve works both the splitter and the log lift cylinders flawlessly when connected to the K_ubota hydraulics via my grapple remotes with the valve lever in detent...!!! I am going to test the Prince two spool using the same just to be sure that both the two spool valves are both in working order...(pics below of the Cross valve setup)

Now that leaves two questions...is it something with the original single spool valve that is different or is there something in the DW circuit??...All three of the valves (both the original single spool and the 2 two spools) have fluid running through them when the DW is running...

At any rate I am working on ordering what I need to try and use the backhoe ports to run the splitter/lift...

The 2- 20' hoses connected to the grapple remotes:


The Cross valve:


Overall view:

 

[/pine]

Today is a pretty day, with snow called for tonite. Hopefully you get a chance to work on this because I really want to now what the problem is. I will be driving back thru Sunday and now that I know Its only 4 or 5 miles out of my way, I can stop by for a few minutes. probably be around 6pm before I can get there tho. Let me now what you discover.

I tried to send you a couple of PM last evening but for some reason they would not post...at least they are not in my "sent" message box...!

see the above and I will post more later this afternoon...I am greatly relieved that I have finally been able to get somewhere on this conundrum...! thanks for the support and will be in touch...

 

[muddstopper]

well, at least you know its not the valves. Something dont look right with the connections in this picture http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...1452543934t-could-air-cause-issue-hookup1-jpg. I assume the hose with the red tape is your pressure hose to the splitter since you said you put red tape on the ends of the P hose. You also said the return went straight to the bottom of the tank. I still feel you had something blocking the return flow. If you have pressure on the red ended hose and the return goes straight to tank, something dont make sense. As long as you have it working thats all that counts, but when the weather warms up, I still want to stop by, and I might just bring my fishing pole.

 

[/pine]

well, at least you know its not the valves. Something dont look right with the connections in this picture http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...1452543934t-could-air-cause-issue-hookup1-jpg. I assume the hose with the red tape is your pressure hose to the splitter since you said you put red tape on the ends of the P hose. You also said the return went straight to the bottom of the tank. I still feel you had something blocking the return flow. If you have pressure on the red ended hose and the return goes straight to tank, something dont make sense. As long as you have it working thats all that counts, but when the weather warms up, I still want to stop by, and I might just bring my fishing pole.

I can't really see exactly how the end of the return line on the DW connects to the tank...it goes back to about the center of the machine/tank there is no easy access to get a picture etc...but I do know that when I connect the 20' hose (from any of the valves) that I normally connect to the (DW return) line...does pump fluid back to the tank...I tested this by watching the fluid flow back into the fill port (rather than the return line...when the DW is running there is always fluid flowing through the two (auxiliary) lines I have been using...either just connected together or through any of the valves...

BTW...there may have been a fitting with red tape that was just an improvisation to make it as simple as possible to test both the two spool valves without changing out more fittings than required...I'm fairly confident I don't now and never did have anything connected wrong or there was ever an issue with the QDs...(at least after I had checked everything at least a hundred times...!)

following this reply I am going to post some more results and I hope a couple of lousy videos...

 

[/pine]

When hooked to the K_ubota hydraulics the Prince valve works as flawlessly as the Cross valve...no issues...both cylinders perform great...!

Prince valve:


With both cylinders working fine connected to the K_ubota...I shut it down and moved the 20' hoses to the DW...both the cylinders lock up exactly as they have been...
...I have a couple of short low quality videos of the lift cylinder both working (off the tractor) and when it's locked up connected to the DW but I can't seem to upload them directly to a post...

Besides eliminating possible causes...I at least got to try out the log lift and am more than happy with it's performance...even with the lower GPM of the tractor...just hope either the BH or the PB ports (on the DW) will work with one or the other of the two spool valves...

But in the interim...

On the DW...I'm considering putting the original single spool valve (with no PB) in the circuit...hold the spool (up or down) and use the working ports (original spool) to connect to the P/T lines on one of the two spools...or if that does not change anything I could connect it the same way but AFTER the two spool...???

 

[muddstopper]

well, about the only thing I can think of with your connections to the aux valve is that by not using the return port on that valve, there may be some sort of pressure sensing check valve where you did tee into the return line. If this is the case, and I am not saying that it is, only that it is a possibility, without the proper pressure to open the check valve, it would block the return to tank. Might want to just drop the 20' return line into the top of the tank just to see what happens. If the valves work then, you would know that somewhere in the return connection there is a check valve. Would be odd for it to be like that, but having oil to and from the control valve and it not work is odd also.

 

[/pine]

well, about the only thing I can think of with your connections to the aux valve is that by not using the return port on that valve, there may be some sort of pressure sensing check valve where you did tee into the return line. If this is the case, and I am not saying that it is, only that it is a possibility, without the proper pressure to open the check valve, it would block the return to tank. Might want to just drop the 20' return line into the top of the tank just to see what happens. If the valves work then, you would know that somewhere in the return connection there is a check valve. Would be odd for it to be like that, but having oil to and from the control valve and it not work is odd also.

I've never tee'd into anything...previously to setting up the log splitter...the original single spool valve was mounted on the DW with both the pressure and return lines connected to the P and T ports...there were QD's attached to the working ports...

I just moved the valve to the splitter and connected the 20' hoses to the short hoses that connected to the valve...

Before I removed the hoses from their original position on the original valve...I marked the pressure line...then with both the pressure and return lines removed from the valve I made sure that it was an OC circuit by confirming that with the lever centered there was open passage between the pressure and tank ports...

I will try to send you a PM in just a bit...

 

[LD1]

I like the idea of unhooking the return line at the DW and just putting it in the fill hole.

 

[/pine]

I like the idea of unhooking the return line at the DW and just putting it in the fill hole.

I've done that with no valve, the original valve and at least one of the two spool valves...all return fluid at least to the tanks fill port, where I can observe it actually flowing...when connected to the original (return) line (not the fill port) I can still sense/feel the fluid moving in the lines...

...when either of the two spool valves is connected fluid flows through the valve when the spools are centered...but not when either spool is activated...I've not been able to operate a valve lever and also put the return in the fill port (where it can be observed) at the same time but when either of the spools on the two spool valves is engaged I can't "sense" fluid returning...

As I posted this afternoon...I'm thinking about seeing what happens if I use the original single spool either before or after one of the two spool valves...?...without PB I can just hold the lever engaged and use the working ports to connect to the two spool...

...and possibly installing the PB plug in the Prince two spool valve and just run the PB pressure through the original valve with the working ports plugged would put it last in the series back to the DW...???

At where I am right now I have to try the BH or the PB on the main DW hydraulic manifold the same manifold where the pressure line I have been using comes from....But the return is not...see the pic of the DW connections...

 

[/pine]

I'm sure I've mentioned this before...and am still wondering if there could be some type of "check" or whatever valve in the return I'm using...specifically there for the horizontal boring attachment that the "original" valve was intended for...??

If the weather permits tomorrow I will disconnect the 20' from the short DW return line and port it to the fill port...with the help of a neighbor I will be able to hold the return in the fill port and operate the two spool valve...

If eliminating a possible check in the auxiliary return line does solve the conundrum I will be needing to use the return port where the BH connects or Tee into it...?

 

[LD1]

If the weather permits tomorrow I will disconnect the 20' from the short DW return line and port it to the fill port...with the help of a neighbor I will be able to hold the return in the fill port and operate the two spool valve...

Looking forward to the results of this

 

[muddstopper]

Well here are my thoughts on the return line. The valves you have do work as intended when hooked to the kubota hyd. The valves dont work when hooked to the DW. The problem has to lie with the ditchwitch or the connections. By putting the return line into the top of the tank, you have eliminated any possibility of a check valve in the return circuit. Currently, I believe that when you are operating the valve, you have a blocked return somewhere. You have double and tripple checked the plumbing, the valve works the way you have it when connected to the kubota. It should work when hooked to the DW. You know the DW has pressure in to the valve, then the only thing left is the return. And for the life of me, I cant figure out why the single spool valve works and the double spool valve wont work if you are using the same connection (P/T) points for each valve.

 

[/pine]

With the Prince two spool valve still connected from testing with the K_ubota yesterday...I connected the pressure line to the DW and fed the return from the valve into the fill port of the tank...leaving the original return line deadheaded with the QD...

When I started the DW it was running in a bog...it was returning fluid to the fill port but seemed somewhat restricted (weak flow low volume)...

I did this same thing before but when I did (to make sure fluid was returning) the machine was cold and at low RPMs I did not notice it was running in a bog...I only ran it long enough to check the return...and it was about the same flow rate as this morning...

I'm about sick of messing with auxiliary hydraulic on the DW and will order what I need to connect to the backhoe QD's on the main DW manifold...

In the interim I can use the original single spool to split wood as I've been doing and although it defeats the purpose of the lift (over either the loader or the boom pole and tongs) and not having to stop splitting to load a round on the splitter I can use remotes on the K_ubota to "play" with the lift...

I will keep the thread up to date but as for now other than using the original setup with the original single spool valve...I'm done trying use the auxiliary DW lines (it was too easy anyway!)...however if I get a chance to call DW of GA I can usually talk to a mechanic and possibly learn what is up with that circuit and the single spool valve...

If I get the order placed tomorrow I should have everything by the end of the week...

Thanks to everyone that contributed...

 

[LD1]

Sounds like the return line you were using, is ALSO a pressure line. Thus the dead heading with the QD unhooked.

Still have no idea why it works with the single spool.

What is the reason you don't just use the tractor hydraulics?

 

[/pine]

Sounds like the return line you were using, is ALSO a pressure line. Thus the dead heading with the QD unhooked.

Still have no idea why it works with the single spool.

What is the reason you don't just use the tractor hydraulics?

One reason is performance...the K_bota puts out slightly less GPM than the DW that has lines/ports are larger dia. and the DW runs the splitter adequately at much lower RPMs...it also leaves the tractor available to move split wood out of the way either on pallets or a trailer etc...

As for the auxiliary circuit...just to satisfy my own curiosity and be able to supply some possible answers...when the weather and time permits I will trace the return line...it is very hard to see but it looks like it is connected to a tee (at the tank) with the other line coming from rear station trencher/front blade controls...some of which are closed center (to allow for multiple controls of the same cylinders etc...)

Also this morning when I was looking at the return...the hose actually connects to "something" else before the 'T'...it looks to be just another short hose but the connection on the "something" side looks a little fatter and longer than just a coupling...it's covered with a fibered sheath so it is really hard to see (or reach)...just to get to it would require removing the backhoe and the hydraulic tank...I will see if I can get enough light on the subject to take a picture of what can barely be seen...I hope all I've been doing does not create any leaks in there because I don't even want to have to get into it...!

 

[muddstopper]

If I read this right, you disconnected the return line from the valve and left it capped with the OC, then you ran another line into the top of tank and where able to crank the engine and it bogg without you operating the valve or any other functions. How was the fluid flowing thru the line you dropped into top of tank. Still just a guess, but I am thinking you might have connected your return to another pressure line also. The flow you are seeing could be flow from overriding a relief valve somewhere Not to sure about how many pumps are on your DW, but I know it has at least one small gear pump, (seen in one of the pictures) a variable pump, and I would guess another pump for the Bh attachments. The small pump that can be seen in one of the pictures might be a power steering pump or pilot pressure pump, (guessing again), and be low pressure. Of course these are just wild guesses. I think before i gave up on the aux, I would try putting everything back like it was intended for the DW operation and connecting your pressure line to the PB port on your aux valve instead of the fitting in the side of the aux valve, and running your return to either top of tank or to another return that you know for certain just goes to tank. That fitting in the side of the aux valve, unless it is specificly marked as a pressure port might not be meant to be tapped into for a high pressure connection.

Give me a call, I will be going your way as soon as I get my bags packed, should be going by Persimmon road in about an hr.