Compact tractor vs skid steer

chrise · Jul 23, 2004

Hi Guys

I was all set to buy a Mahindra or Kioti, 25hp with FEL for 17 acres in New England. Gentle hills, lots of bull briar, needs a lot of York rake, grass planting type activity, ripping out bull briars and so on. We have a couple of roughish fields - could mow these with a dedicated ride on lawn mower instead of an attachment I guess.Also will use FEL for moving wood etc. Not much need of snow plowing -I have a guy with a truck do that.

So, I was ready to spend 13-14K maybe with 0% down (why not, saves equity line!) when someone made a very good case for a Bobcat - power, smaller to maneuver between trees, wouldn't get stuck so much as a 4wd tractor, plenty of rentable attachments.

Trouble is they're pricey new AND used (maybe 15K for a used one) and no 0%!

Any thoughts on how much of a difference there is between small 25hp 4wd Kioti or Mahindra and lowest end Bobcat? Also I want my wife to use it (sure!). Is she going to have more trouble with one than another?

Thanks a lot for any help.

KiotiJohn · Jul 23, 2004

I'll save us all some time and send you to a huge discussion that's already been done. General consenus I think for you will be tractor.
Tractor VS Skid Steer

Henro · Jul 23, 2004

someone made a very good case for a Bobcat - power, smaller to maneuver between trees, wouldn't get stuck so much as a 4wd tractor 

Can't help much, but unless, and perhaps even if, it has tracks, you may find it gets stuck more than a 4WD compact...

From what I have read/seen the skid steer is better suited to construction sites where things are more or less flat, than woods and fields...

But I defer to those who have more experience with them.

Myself, I doubt I would ever replace my compact tractor with a skid steer...

mark777 · Jul 23, 2004

chrise,

As soon as my ground is just a little wet......a few minutes of rain..I will get the bobcat stuck. And the more I try to unstick the deeper the short wheelbase of the skidsteer gets. Its not a problem because I have a 4x4 yanmar and pull the bobcat out (4 times in April)

Now my neighbor has the skidsteer, and I have pulled him out 4 times last June.

Mark

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 23, 2004

I've used both and would easily choose the tractor over the SSL. SSL's will bottom out more easily and just about beat you to death with that short wheelbase.

OrangeGuy · Jul 23, 2004

Both have there place. However, if you have some serious landscaping, earthmoving, land clearing, rock moving, stump digging, areas you want level and productivity, go with the Bobcat. All the heavy work on my place was done with my Bobcats over the years. After all the major work was completed, I looked for a more general purpose machine which turned out to be a Kubota L3430 CUT. I still own a small Bobcat for intricate loader work.

Bobcats have tremendous resale value. You can buy a used one, use it for a couple of years and get close to what you paid for it when you sell it.

As far as the wife goes, I believe the tractor would be more intuitive, especially if it has hydrostatic. Even though I know a few gals that can operate a Bobcat like a pro.

OrangeGuy

DavesTractor · Jul 23, 2004

I sell compact tractors, but I also own a Bobcat for when I need to move a bunch of dirt/gravel, etc. in a hurry. They are super good as a front end loader, fast and accurate. You can see the entire bucket edge when working allowing precise grading along a curb, or up against a house or whatever.

Beyond that, I prefer a tractor. A compact tractor is more comfortable and I think more versatile for the small land owner.

RobertN · Jul 24, 2004

A tracked loader would run circles around a CUT in the mud. I ran a 6000lb 50hp Cat where my B8200 2000lb Kuboa was getting stuck and making a real mess. I would though, have got stuck with a skid steer too...

The ASVi RC30 is a good comp to a Kubota B2910; both 30hp.

A skidsteer will beat you up. I have used Bobcat machines, the tiny 36" wide 463, and the newer S150 and S185. They can do a lot of work, but can also bounce you good. This is a guess, but I think all skidsteers would be similar.

The track loaders such as the ASVi RC 30 have a suspended chassis. Like riding in a Cadillac.

Anything you can do with a CUT, you could do with a skidsteer or track-loader. Ya, plowing might be a challenge, but they make em. Mow, grade, load, pull brush, dig post holes...

The big thing I see is implements. Hydraulic implements for a skid/track loader are hydraulic and more expensive than the pto stuff for a CUT. However, you can usually rent the implements too... Folks here have mentioned renting 3pt stuff, but it must be regional. Out here, if you rent 3pt equipment, you rent thier tractor too.

It is interesting to read the Bobcat story at thier web page. The first "Bobcat" s were made by/for a North Dakota farmer for cleaning out his barns.

_RaT_ · Jul 24, 2004

The ASV machines Robert talks about are awesome. ASV is part of CAT. If I was into landscaping, that would be what I would use first. NO question I can get a Bobcat stuck in muddy conditions much, much easier then a 4WD tractor. The Bobcat bury's itself quickly and once stuck, they are a bear to unstick. As Dave mentions, you can move more material faster in a Bobcat then just about any tractor I have ever used. Their nimbleness is unmatched, but you also pay the price on the surface. On paved surfaces, they leave a mess of rubber. On turf, it adequately removes it. Loading trucks on slopes can be a challenge. They are very good machines, much versatility, but for general purpose uses, the regular old CUT is tough to beat.

Grassgod · Jul 24, 2004

a tractor is the way to go. I have spent lots of time on each. They tear when they turn, they're heavy as hell, boucy & bumpy ride, poor visibilty & over priced. The only thing I have to say is mahindra & kioti are more like a Hyundai car & a bobcat is more like a cadillac. Compare kubota or deere to the bobcat... the deere & kubota resale are the same as the bobcat & quality.

neilly2 · Jul 24, 2004

I doubt the poster will be in the market for the CAT track skid steer. $$$$. So getting stuck will be a big issue for him.

For me the big factor would be the skidding. They tear the hell out anything they're on.

The large commercial landscapers that I've worked with usually have both. The skid steer usually has two uses. Running stone for retaining wall footings, and for Harley Raking before seed.

Henro is right. The bobcat is usually for cleanup tasks in and around the buildings being built.

RobertN · Jul 24, 2004

After using all, I lean towards the tracked machines in the middle ground. For all the issues a skidsteer(Bobcat, et al.) has on uneven or steep terrain, the track loaders get around that, for the most part. I have seen, and used myself, Bobcats S185 on uneven steep rocky terrain. It was a digging and grading monster! I also got it stuck here at the house in the winter(got out on its own, but was hard...).

There are more options for size and type out there these days. The ASVi RC30 that I want is a 3000lb, 30hp machine; more in line with the size and power of a larger CUT.
There are a lot of options out there now. IMHO, of course, using a blanket statement which might cover all skidsteers is not really applicable. There are options of HP, weight, lift, skid or track type. Some can do both skid AND 4 wheel steer at the flick of a switch.

Using Bobcat as an example, the 463 is like 22hp and 2500lbs, 36" wide. The S185 is 56hp, 6000lb machine. The 900 series are even more powerful, and in the 9-10,000lb range. I think, they all look too similar to distinguish this, as compared to CUT's. Yes, that is a forementioned blanket statement. But, most CUT's are in the 1500-3000lb, 20-35hp range.

To make it shorter, I guess I mean for a good answer, the comparison is apples to oranges, but at least the comparison should be of similar size and weight apples and oranges
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

fire72 · Jul 25, 2004

I'll have to weigh in with the majority on this one and recommend the tractor. Skid steers have their advantages, like being able to see the whole bucket (although on many models that's about all you can see) and being far more manueverable than tractors. Back in my landscaping days we used both - the tractors did the rough mowing and finish grading with back blade and pulverizer, and the skid loader did all of the loader work and ran a rock hound for lawn installations. Some of the guys also used the skid loader with pallet forks to dig holes for planting trees. With a good rental yard in the area, you can rent just about any implement you can think of for a skid loader.

However, a compact tractor is more versatile for most homeowner/landowner work. The skid loader tears up soft surfaces and leaves rubber on hard surfaces when it turns. The combination of heavy weight on a small wheelbase with small diameter tires makes them vulnerable to getting stuck, although tracks help considerably with this problem. If there is any distance between the place a skid loader is stored and the job site, such as traveling from the barn to the back of the property to work, the low ground speed of a skid loader may be a factor.

The compromise option is to either rent a skid loader or buy one and resell it after the work for which is most appropriate is complete, then go with a CUT for the maintenance work. Spend some demo time with any equipment you consider buying and make sure the controls are comfortable and intuitive for you. Strictly my personal preference, but the dual T-sticks on a Gehl were easier for me to use than the joystick/foot pedal setup on a Bobcat. Preferences vary; make sure anything you buy suits yours.

My two cents...

Varmintmist · Jul 25, 2004

Ready for a real ambiguious post?

It depends on what you are doing. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If you are planning to use the CUT as a digging maching, get the skid loader. The boom and design of tractor loaders leave a LOT to be desired in the rootin and tearing department. You can dig a LOT more, a lot faster with a lot less stress on the maching when you use a skidsteer. A good loader operator can level a lot of ground in good time with little trouble. I grew up on Case uni-loaders. Started operating one at 8 years old. Much better set up than a bobcat (IMHO) because to get the work done I need BOTH feet planted for balance. All work in done at the two handles left and right. I dont remember ever getting stuck so badly that I couldnt either spin my way out, or shove myself out with the bucket, however, I knew the limitations of the machine I was on. I did flip one once, that was kind of exciting.

Now, the CUT on the other hand. For long term maint. of grounds is the way to go. The loader is a compromise, and as long as you think of it as such you can move whatever you want, given time. The big benifit to the CUT is in implements. You can put an attachment on the cut to do just about anything your little heart desires. If you have the need to really root and tear, then get a hoe. If you want to level, then a back blade and a york rake are in your future, if its real bad, start with a plow or a 3pt tiller. After all the dirt work is done, then you can still use the tractor, sell the implements you dont need (yeah right /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif )

Bottom line is you can use the tractor for more different things, the loader in a much better LOADER. It all depends on what you need,

RobertN · Jul 25, 2004

From my posts on these topics, it would appear I am pro skidsteer. I am not particularily; I have a CUT for the time being, and would most likely only sell it for a tracked loader(I really want an ASVi-RC30).

Your post gives good info about both skidsteer and CUT. One thing I see a lot is that a skidsteer, or somewhat similar track-loader, can dig. The thing that is often left out is that they can do a lot more than dig or grade. Loaders, hoes, scrapers, augers, brooms, breakers, 6-way dozer blade, chippers, brush mowers, bale handlers, rakes, planers, graders(laser guide graders too!), grapples, trenchers, ect. And, a lot of that can be rented.

I used the hand controls an the ASVi-RC30 and Cat-247. I really liked them. The Cat also had a foot throttle, which seemed odd at first, but after using it I rather liked it.

The interesting thing about the ASV RC30 and such machines, is the ease with which they work on turf with little to no marking I worked the Cat-247 track loader in pretty wet conditions. Even working over grass, it left minimal marking, especially considering it is a 6000lb machine.

Varmintmist · Jul 26, 2004

You are absoultly correct about the implements for the skid loaders. However, all of those attachments are available for tractors also. Not all tractors can handle all attachments, but not all loaders can handle all attachments either.

BTW, you forgot a few /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Hydralic jackhammer, scarfires, /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What Im saying is for everyday use, a CUT makes a whole lot more sense than a loader for a property owner, UNLESS he/she needs to do some serious rooting in a short time. Then you NEED to get a machine that is designed for the work you are doing.

Best case, get one of each /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

chrise · Jul 26, 2004

Thanks for all the comments. I went up to New Hampshire today and put a deposit on a Mahindra 2015HST w/FEL for $12,500. It feels good! This is a great forum. Thanks again.

JayC · Jul 26, 2004

Congratulations! That's a real nice machine. Don't forget to post a few pics when the new tractor arrives! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

chrise · Aug 16, 2004

Thanks, I will (when it arrives).

The dealer I bought it from, Jim, at Northeastern Forklift in Epson, NH couldn't have been nicer to deal with. An all ariound good guy.

The prices I got were :-

Mahindra 2015HST with FEL $12,500
Sitrex conical spreader $425
Woods 6 ft rake $630
Woods gauge wheels for 6 ft rake $235
Woods 60" blade $450
4X6 utility trailer $575
Woods 48" brush bull cutter $1095

total about $16K of which $12,600 or so was at 0% financing.

I originally had a Kioti CK20 on my list as well as the 2015HST but the prices I got were all about $2K more than the Mahindra, and they seemed harder to get a hold of

KiotiJohn · Aug 16, 2004

( I originally had a Kioti CK20 on my list as well as the 2015HST but the prices I got were all about $2K more than the Mahindra, and they seemed harder to get a hold of)
That was a pretty good deal. Most of the time that model seems to come in just around the same price as the CK20HST so you did well. I think that's probably a good tractor too and they look good. John