Buying Advice Compact Tractor shopping - some questions

[dgeesaman]

Hello everyone, my first post here.

I'm shopping for a tractor / equipment to handle a 15 acre horse property. I have attached an aerial of the plot with the areas currently pasture fenced (blue) and future pastures (light blue). I expect to do these chores with the following order of time spent:
1) Mowing perimeters and yards (weekly), 5 acres total.
2) Mowing pastures (monthly), 5 acres total.
3) Dragging indoor and outdoor riding areas.
4) Moving manure.
5) Moving hay bales and other consumables from storage building to barn.
6) Plowing driveway in winter. We get some winter weather here in PA but most years the largest snowstorm leaves less than a foot. Snow is wet and heavy as often as it is powdery.
7) Spraying the pastures, aerating, and fertilizing activities maybe.
(Fence posts will be driven professionally, excavations will be subbed, and I have no intent to harvest wood in the wooded section)

This is where you come in. I have no experience with this stuff except for a couple of times dragging a riding arena using someone else's rig. I'm a mechanical engineer so while I pick up this stuff quickly, I don't know things I've never been exposed to. If things go well I'll need a tractor by mid-May so I'm using the meantime to do my homework. My current lawn equipment boils down to a small push mower and a light duty weed-eater, ha. I foresee buying at least a 20hp 4WD compact tractor with quick attach loader.

Major questions:
1) Would you try and mow this property using a tractor implement, or a commercial (zero-turn style) mower? Two clarifications here: the existing turf is not very bumpy and I'm willing to aerate and roll it annually to maintain that, and I believe in keeping pasture grass no higher than 6-7" and mowing down to 4-5". So the question is whether I should consider a separate mower.
2) What kind of tires make the most sense if the ground is generally smooth, no rocks, and areas of the turf can be wet at times?
3) If we wanted to buy and handle large square hay bales, how would I decide if a tractor that is safe to move and stack them? Large squares run 800lb on average, and for horse feeding I really don't expect to buy oversized and heavy bales.
4) Following question 3, if I get a bale spear for the FEL, is the 500mm/full height lift capacity (say, 1100# for a Boomer 30) something that won't tip over the tractor?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Dave

 

[jenkinsph]

I would look at a Deere 3032E for your list of jobs and other brands with a similar size. I would suggest you look at a rear finish mower about 6' wide, a similar sized arena rake and a rearblade.

Check out this rake built by one of out members on TBN the Jake Rake.

 

[kiotiken]

I would look at a Deere 3032E for your list of jobs and other brands with a similar size. I would suggest you look at a rear finish mower about 6' wide, a similar sized arena rake and a rearblade.

Check out this rake built by one of out members on TBN the Jake Rake.

I disagree, the 3032E is a very light tractor, maybe some of the 3X20 or 4X20. 800lbs way out front of the pivot points is a lot more than 800lbs near the bucket especially if you're stacking them near full lift height. I'd look at a Kubota L4240, Kioti DK40, LS of similar size (approx 40-45hp). I'd go with a simple big box store lawn tractor for the grass, maybe a ZTR, but .5 acres isn't much grass. I cut 3 acres in a little more than an hour with a Ferris IS3000 ZTR. You won't find a tractor light enough to mow over your septic field and big and heavy enough to move the bails.

 

[94BULLITT]

Welcome to the forum.

I would look at a Kubota L3200, 3800 or a L3540 or 3940, size depends on budget. A John Deere 3520 would also be another option. I think you would want to get a tractor with a removable loader to make mowing easier. I also agree that a 6' finish mower would be good. You may want to get a rotary cutter to mow the pasture with if it is rough. If you are on fairly level ground and have the tractor properly ballasted it will handle a round bale. I prefer a R4 tire you have decent traction and it is not too harmful to the turf. If you have room in your budget a cab is nice to have.

 

[94BULLITT]

I may have read wrong. Are you mowing 1/2 a acre or 5 acres?

 

[L355SS]

Five acres to mow.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I don't own a zero-turn, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have read many other similar threads here on TBN, and my impression is that, if you're going to do 5 acres of mowing a week, and another 5 acres once a month, you should consider a zero-turn. A zero turn is capable of delivering a quality cut at a much faster ground speed than a mower on a tractor. If you do the math, I think you'll find that you need a pretty big finish mower on a tractor to make up the difference in mowing speed with a zero-turn. Also, if you have perimeters to mow, a zero turn's additional maneuverability is going to make a big difference. If you had un-cleared pasture that might require a bush-hog, or if you said the ground was pretty rough and had lots of rocks and ditches or whatever, then I might say the tractor is the right choice, but for what you've got, I think you should be looking at a dedicated mower.

However, if you're willing to put in the seat-time, you can come out ahead money-wise by using a rear finish mower on your tractor. An RFM will come in around $1-2k, and will rely on your tractor's engine to run it. You'll have a hard time finding a zero-turn that will be as reliable and long-lived as your tractor, for $1-2k. But do the math! At 3 mph, you can do about 1.6 acres per hour with a 5' mower. So that's about 3-4 hours of mowing you're going to be doing--a week! Even a 6' mower only gets you down to 2.5-3 hours. On the other hand, according to the Internet, a zero-turn will do closer to 3-5 acres an hour, depending on field conditions. That's a big difference.

 

[94BULLITT]

A zero turn will be $4k minimum more than a finish mower. Now you will have 2 machines to maintain instead of one. You are going to have to have some smooth ground to make the time the zero manufacturers claim.

 

[joshuabardwell]

As for tire type, if I was mowing as much as you, I would lean towards a turf tire. I have R4's, and when the ground is wet, they will tear it up very easily. Not as bad as an ag tire, which will leave track marks everywhere, but still bad enough that I wouldn't want to be committed to running them all over my place all summer when it needs to be mowed. R4's are going to be better than turf for loader use, but it sounds like your mowing is more your primary application than loader use.

 

[amaxwell]

:QUOTE=kiotiken;3230647]I disagree, the 3032E is a very light tractor, maybe some of the 3X20 or 4X20. 800lbs way out front of the pivot points is a lot more than 800lbs near the bucket especially if you're stacking them near full lift height. I'd look at a Kubota L4240, Kioti DK40, LS of similar size (approx 40-45hp). I'd go with a simple big box store lawn tractor for the grass, maybe a ZTR, but .5 acres isn't much grass. I cut 3 acres in a little more than an hour with a Ferris IS3000 ZTR. You won't find a tractor light enough to mow over your septic field and big and heavy enough to move the bails.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this post except for the lawn tractor,if you can swing the cost go for a 40-45hp tractor and a ztr, even if you have to go with gently used on both.:thumbsup:

 

[dgeesaman]

5 acres of yard, 5 acres of pasture. Pastures are not rough and we plan to build some sacrifice areas so they don't destroy the turf when it's fragile.

If I were to do the mowing with the tractor I'd expect to have a quick attach loader and mow without it.

Before we get into the question of what tractor will handle an 800lb square bale, are you saying that the lift rating at full height is not the limiting factor? If that's the case, what is the limiting factor?

As for the 40+ hp tractor and ZTR option, that's not a financial possibility. My budget is 20k, 25k tops, and I was not really expecting to buy new.

 

[MarkV]

Good advice given so far. If it were me I would be looking at loader lift capacity to meet your hay needs as I was comparing tractors. Given how far out an 800 lbs bail will sit a loader in the 1200 lbs lift range might work. If you ever think you might go to round bales you would need more. You are out of the 20 hp tractor range though. The other thing I would consider is how much mower I wanted to run. The general rule for a rough cut mowers is 5 PTO hp per foot of mower. A finish mower generally requires a bit less. A 20hp tractor will generally have around 16 PTO hp and is going to work best with a 4' mower. Five acres is a lot of mowing time with a 4' mower.

I would be looking in the 35 to 40 gross hp range.

MarkV

 

[murphy1244]

Zero turn and a Kioti DK 40 SE HST for 2700 lbs of muscle on your loader.

 

[murphy1244]

:welcome: to TBN

 

[nybirdman]

It is very hard to have one machine to:mow five acres of finish ground,mow another five of rough ground,lift 800lbs and do some snow removal.It can be done but you will have to compromise somewhere.It doesn't look like you have a lot of trees to mow around.My suggestion;L4240 Kubota with FEL,4WD,turf tires ,rear finish mower and bush-hog.Rear scraper blade should handle your snow removal duties.And yes I do own a L4240(600 hrs) and it has been a very good machine.DK40 Kioti,JD 4XXXmachines will have similar capabilities.

 

[Wagtail]

G'day Dave,
I've just been through this process and the advice received by neighbours and the good people of Tractorbynet went a long way to getting my own tractor. I too have a small 6 acre horse property. I went with a John Deere due to their local reputation, both in sales and (more importantly) support after you buy. Your neighbours (+ the 'word in the Pub') will have their own bias but generally won't stear you wrong.

If you can, include one of these neighbours when you go to the dealership... they'll be able to nod/shake-their-head at what's offered by the dealer. (hit the dealer up for an extra hat as part of the deal)

You've already put thought towards what you want to initially do with your rig. Good, that's a start. The adage expressed by everyone on this site is (if you can afford it) to get a horsepower one step up from what you reckon you need. I started out thinking about the JD 2720... which, with all of the attachments available, would be able to handle everything I could think of for a small property. At the dealership (with a friend along) we then bumped it up to the 3032E = more power and a larger selection of implements as it was a full Cat 1 Compact Utillity Tractor (CUT). The new CUT's now come in 'automatic' HST, so there's no gear shifting to be done. Everything runs off of a couple of hydraulic systems.

Then the price came up (which you can only see once you're at the dealership) and I was shown that the 4105 was less expensive! Just because it didn't have all of the fancy/pretty things (cruise control, anti-vibration deck, etc...) and it lacked a mid PTO. Mind you, there are a very limited number of implements that attach to a mid PTO. The mower deck is one of them but you can get a perfectly good rear PTO slasher or mower that does the same thing. Don't be dazzled be the goodies on offer, get what you need.

You will need a Front End Loader (FEL). Be warned that this is just the arms and a standard bucket... the implements that attach to it are another expense. I would recommend that your FEL be upgraded to operate a 4in1 bucket. Another FEL attachment you'll need will be a forklift/bale-spike combination. Comments on this site have said that they usually keep this attachment on most of the time!

Tyre wise, I went with the R4. There are turf tyres and a half'n'half tread tyre available. I would discuss this with your dealer.

Definately invest in a chain-harrow to drag your paddocks to work in the horse manure (horses are VERY good at producing manure :laughing. These harrows come in sections that can be added/removed or the whole thing can be flipped over to do a number of different tasks, such as dragging your arena. A rotary tiller for improving your paddocks is a suggestion too.

That's my advice for your initial purchase. You'll get more implements as you need them, but that's for the future.

Best of luck and keep us posted,

Randy

 

[Leejohn]

I would look real hard at the Kubota GL3540 and the GL3940.. The GL4240 might be just a shade big. Also that would get you in the price range that you want.

 

[pizzaguy]

I think you will be much happier if you get a compact tractor to handle the large jobs and get a good commercial zero turn mower to do the mowing. You can do it all with the compact tractor if you have alot of extra time, but if you want to spend that time on things other than mowing and if the budget allows, get the ZT mower. Look at tractor dealers in your area to find one that fits your needs and for a zero turn, Grasshopper, Gravely, Country Clipper are all very good mowers.Let us know what you end up with.

 

[dgeesaman]

It is very hard to have one machine to:mow five acres of finish ground,mow another five of rough ground,lift 800lbs and do some snow removal.It can be done but you will have to compromise somewhere.

I have no reservations about maintaining two machines, especially if it's the best solution. I don't automatically buy the idea that a 2-ton tractor is the ideal machine for spending most of my time mowing.

I mentioned the ZTR to manage the trees, fence edges, and buildings with less clumsiness than the tractor. Plus I get to skip rearranging the attachments for mowing. It's not about achieving the manufacturer's maximum ground speed. So that's my uneducated comparison of tractor mower vs. ZTR.

I wasn't entirely clear in my first post - I would like to handle large square bales but it won't make sense if it adds $10k to the equipment investment. $10k buys a lot of small bales, or at least buys me a year to consider adding a skidsteer instead. This is why I was trying to understand the requirements for lifting.

 

[Grandad4]

I have no reservations about maintaining two machines, especially if it's the best solution. I don't automatically buy the idea that a 2-ton tractor is the ideal machine for spending most of my time mowing.

I mentioned the ZTR to manage the trees, fence edges, and buildings with less clumsiness than the tractor. Plus I get to skip rearranging the attachments for mowing. It's not about achieving the manufacturer's maximum ground speed. So that's my uneducated comparison of tractor mower vs. ZTR.

I wasn't entirely clear in my first post - I would like to handle large square bales but it won't make sense if it adds $10k to the equipment investment. $10k buys a lot of small bales, or at least buys me a year to consider adding a skidsteer instead. This is why I was trying to understand the requirements for lifting.

Dave, first of all, that's a beautiful place you have. It looks like someone has already put a lot of time and effort into it. It's laid out nicely from what shows on the aerial view. Seems to me you have two major functions to handle: a) upkeep of the property and b) your horse operation.

The upkeep tasks, mowing, driveways, general chores, can be done by any good quality compact tractor. The bigger your equipment, the faster that work can be done, so it's a money vs. time judgement only you can make. And, there's a good case for having a separate mowing unit, particularly since you have so much fenceline, driveways, buildings and landscape that will require trim mowing.

The horse operation is another matter. That horse barn has how many stalls? It looks huge, and if you're eventually going to have the herd to keep it full (what, maybe 20-25 horses?), you'll be dealing with some serious input/output issues (i.e. hay and grain in; manure out). I could easily see a respectable ag utility tractor for bales and a skid steer for manure looking right at home on a place like that. So if all goes well, that may be where you could someday end up, equipment-wise.

But, presuming you're in the "start-up" phase at the moment, it seems you'd at least need one good multi-tasking tractor to get the ball rolling. My vote would be for something big enough to do some serious work, probably something in the 35-40 hp range, or more. The Kubota Grand L's are top-notch, the Deere 4000 series likewise and there are other excellent models from Kioti, Massey Ferguson and others, so you have quite a selection.

I think if you go smaller than that, you would be OK for a while, but you'd be back in the market again for bigger equipment as your horse operation grows and matures.