Close to starting my Workshop

[fbson395]

Just got the permit to start on my workshop.Having the cement work and most of the building contracted out. To cut the cost I left myself with some finish work. 1.I have to install the windows and doors . 2. Put the lap siding up and paint the exterior.3. Have to run a 100 amp service from the house to the shop and wire the shop.4. Have to insulate. If any part of the work gets to be too much I can always hire it out. I will be 68 in Aug and still recovering from knee replacement. Guess I'm just to stupid or stubborn to have it all done for me.:ashamed: I will take pictures as the project get going and post them as we progress.

 

[handirifle]

Been there, done that. If ya haven't done it before, handling the heavy wire for the 100amp service can be tricky. One hint I used, is lay (wrestle?) the three wires, or 4 where codes require, (we can have a earth ground at the source and at the panel) and slip the conduit over the wires, instead of trying to feed the wires through the conduit.

Obviously this has to be done BEFORE backfilling the trench .

 

[handirifle]

Oh, meant to say congrats on the new shop...for the insulation in the ceiling, I saw a guy run some very fine wire (this was an open ceiling, no drywall yet) back and forth across the bottom of the rafters and he laid the insulation on top of the wire. Having it cross only about once every 3ft or so will work. Then you can take it to the attic in a roll and pretty much just unroll it from above.

 

[handirifle]

Ha, just noticed where you are located. Not sure what Kern Co's rules are on the grounding but I'm sure it will be easy to find out.

I just moved (retired) from the Antelope Valley, after living there since '72. What part of Tehachapi you in? Bear Valley, Stallion, or the town area?

 

[creekbend]

Here's wishing you the best in your endeavor. Perhaps wearing a knee brace will help you when working? Good Luck.

 

[fbson395]

I'm in stallion springs. The code here is 3+ ground.I know it will be fun since it is a long run.where did you retire to.Hope you enjoy it. as for a brace it won't help since I still have pain after 9 months. Had a staff infection and blood clouts. But it is slowly improving.

 

[wrooster]

Been there, done that. If ya haven't done it before, handling the heavy wire for the 100amp service can be tricky. One hint I used, is lay (wrestle?) the three wires, or 4 where codes require,

Current NEC for a feeder to a detached structure is 4 wires -- L1/L2/N/Gnd.

(we can have a earth ground at the source and at the panel)

Current NEC for a panel at a detached structure is an earth ground consisting of a pair of ground rods. In the panel at the detached structure, the N and Gnd are uncoupled, maintaining a single N to Gnd connection only at the service entrance panel.

and slip the conduit over the wires, instead of trying to feed the wires through the conduit.

This will almost ALWAYS lead to problems, including the biggest one which is that the solvent cement used to "weld" the sections of conduit together will melt the insulation on the wires as well. Primarily for this reason, conduit is glued up, the solvent cement is allowed to dry, and then the wire is pulled through the conduit.

If you 1) follow code for conduit fill (typ 40% in NM Schedule 40 PVC), 2) follow practice for total pull bend allowance (typically 360 degrees), and 3) use suitable pulling lubricant (e.g. Klein Synthetic or Ideal Clearglide available at Home Depot at $6/qt), you will have no problems pulling the wire.

Obviously this has to be done BEFORE backfilling the trench .

Backfill 2" over conduit with sand, then with fill dirt about 2/3rd's the total depth (typically 18" to top of conduit), then lay a RED caution tape in the trench, then finish backfilling with topsoil.

Wrooster

 

[fbson395]

Wrooster, Thanks for the information.It will come in handy. I was planing on pulling the wire. I spoke to the inspector he was very helpful and expressed that the wire should be pulled. I can use a vacuum to get a string/ cord thru and as you said use a lube.

 

[wrooster]

I can use a vacuum to get a string/ cord thru and as you said use a lube.

Yes, you can use a string tied to a plastic sandwich bag, and a vacuum to get everything started.

If you are wondering what size conduit to install -- it's the next size up from the one recommended via an online conduit sizing calculator...

How far is your pull? How many bends?

Wrooster

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'll be watching this thread with great interest as I just started work on my own mini workshop. Like you I'm trying to do a lot of the work myself. For me it's more of a pride thing. I want to work in a shop that I built myself. I expect that I'll learn a few things from your experience and from the comments and suggestions of others.

 

[fbson395]

Hi, I will be going with 1 1/2 "and the pulls will be about 150 ft.or more. Plan on one pull thru the attic and then a junction box, another pull out to the shop about 60 to 80 ft.The shop will be 30'x40'and 12 ' walls with a 5/12 roof pitch. I would like to have done more but just too much for me. I will keep all informed as to my progress.
Thanks

 

[vwnotrunning]

For the little increase in cost - larger conduit in the ground sure makes it easier to pull though. More important if you have little to no experience in pulling wire. PS be sure get someone to help feed it in while you pull!!!

 

[fbson395]

WOW, The work has started. The concrete was poured last week and the building started today. See Pictures! They showed up about 0830 and had a crew of six plus the owner. Also his two young boys. They plan on finishing up tomorrow? The plan is for my son and me to finish putting in the windows and doors and the siding, then paint.I have the 1 1/2 " conduit in the ground but it took me 3 days to dig under the 4' wide sidewalk. Finely got that part done. The inspector said I could run romex in the attic and use a water tight junction box at each end of the house. My part of this project will go MUCH MUCH slower.

 

[two_bit_score]

Looks like it progressing well. I'm looking forward to following the progress.

 

[wrooster]

I have the 1 1/2 " conduit in the ground but it took me 3 days to dig under the 4' wide sidewalk. Finely got that part done.

Do you still have the trench open?

Drop a second (and perhaps a third?) run of PVC electrical conduit in the trench for "later/other" use. For example, an additional 1" conduit allows you to pull several CAT5 twisted pair and RG6 coax cables, so you can have 1) Internet access from your shop, 2) a wired alarm system loop, 3) a security camera, 4) phone line, 5) intercom, and so on.

Glued-up conduit is cheap; trenching is expensive, time-consuming, and messy.

You may also want to run a length of 1" 200psi black poly (PE pipe), which would (in the future) allow you to have running water at the shop.

Edited: Per NEC you may not run power and data cabling in the same conduit unless the data cables have insulation rated for the voltage carried on the power cabling. This is not the case with the vast majority of CAT5/CAT6 twisted pair, nor for single- or quad-shield RG6 CATV coax. For this reason, generally the best approach is to run power (=high voltage wiring) and data (=low voltage wiring) in separate conduits.

Wrooster

 

[Grayson Klassen]

What a beautiful view you have, I hope your shop will have windows.

 

[fbson395]

Today they finished the roof sheeting and we called for a inspection for tomorrow. Friday they will bring up the shingles and Tuesday it will be roofed.
Thanks for tips on extra lines in the ground. I added a water line but I can always quickly hand dig a shallow hole in the soft ground for the phone and other stuff. In fact I back filled and then remembered I forgot the water line. This getting old sucks! So I hand dug the water line, so why not do it again? Maybe this time I will get it right.:laughing: Having trouble getting the #2 wire the inspector wants. Says it has to have a "W" in it for wet applications. The store in town has THHN but he will not allow that. I will check this out tomorrow.

 

[NHmitch]

Do you mean your man cave

 

[wrooster]

Having trouble getting the #2 wire the inspector wants. Says it has to have a "W" in it for wet applications. The store in town has THHN but he will not allow that. I will check this out tomorrow.

Buried conduit is a "wet location" per the NEC, and therefore any wire pulled through it has to be rated for wet locations. In general this means THWN insulation (THWN = Thermoplastic Heat and Water Resistant Nylon).

Note that most, but not all, of the wire you find on spools at the big-box stores is dual-labeled as "THHN/THWN" or "THHN/THWN2". This dual-labeled wire is suitable for pulling in underground conduit. However, wire only labeled "THHN" is not.

Wrooster

 

[fbson395]

Wrooster, Yes, on the wire. I made call today and found that most of the wire that is carried is rated for both. THHN and THWN. One wholesale house was up to speep and set me on the right track. Thanks for the information.I ordered a 500 ft roll #2 for $625 I need 450 ft and this is cheaper that paying by the ft. The wire will be in on Tuesday, the same day the roof is going on.Next week the work on the electrical starts. Also have to order the siding doors and windows and insulation. I will keep posting photos.