CHEAPEST WAY TO BUILD LOADING RAMPS

[aczlan]

I propose to have both of the "pull" vehicles FACING the boat.and pulling in reverse gear. That way both drivers can see what is happening and adjust accordingly.

Just be aware that that is the weaker direction on the differential in the vehicle and if you have to pull hard it could possibly damage the differential.

Aaron Z

 

[Jim Shooz]

Will we have to wait long for the video of the recovery ???

 

[Aussiebushman]

Still awaiting delivery of the dry suit and I need longer tow ropes - also pouring rain here for several days so I'd want the ground to dry out before towing

Good point about the diffs but we are talking about a Range Rover and a Toyota HiLux - - not toy vehicles so should be OK

 

[rfc143]

Well, since you haven't actually tried to haul it out yet, I'll throw my two cents in the hat. It's highly unlikely that any deck fitting on the bow you might be considering to attach the haul rope to, will handle the load. I'd run the haul rope between the hulls to the aft of the vessel and attach it to a beam resting athwartships (sideways across the rear of the vessel), letting it sink until it's resting right on the tops of the pontoons. That way you'll distribute the force across the entire structure of the vessel. The traction on your pull vehicle is likely to be the limiting factor anyway though, so it may not matter. Good luck.

 

[sleepybozo]

If your access hatches are big enough, have you considered putting some of your inflatables (even car tire tubes might help) *inside* the hulls? Then as you *slowly and carefully* inflated them (so as to avoid excess pressure on the inside of the hulls) they would displace the water and at least lighten them some, making any other salvage attempts easier. If you had enough, it might even float the hulls and plug the holes?

 

[Aussiebushman]

Thanks to both of you for the most recent suggestions.

First - the tow points I mentioned are not at the bow. There are two large sheet winches bolted to integral structures adjacent to the cockpit but I take your point that even these may not be strong enough to take the load without something breaking. The stern is of course currently well under water but when it is raised it certainly will be possible to place a bean right across both hulls. You are right - this will spread the load evenly and eliminate any danger of anything breaking off under the strain.

Using a single rope between the hulls to that beam sounds fine in principle and would allow a single chain block from the tow vehicle to be used. If I have to do this job on my own, that makes sense but with another 4WD and assistant I think twin tow ropes to a vehicle on either side of the trailer provides a considerable safety margin

The suggestion of putting the inner tubes INSIDE the aft hatches is certainly worth exploring because it will make getting the air into them much easier than if they are under the deck. However, although they are currently well under water, tubes in these positions probably will not raise the hulls lift high enough.
The flotation needs to be as low in the water as possible and that is why tubes under the cockpit will probably be better.

I should have the bits together next weekend and by then the ground may have dried out enough to provide traction for the tow

 

[square1]

The tubes inside the hulls is a technique used in kayaks without waterproof internal compartments. They displace enough water to keep afloat and to some degree stable allowing additional self rescue measures to be performed. Good suggestion sb!
In the end it's whatever floats your boat

 

[Deere Dude]

I may have missed this, but if it was me, I would put a 2" winch strap around the rear of one pontoon and another strap at the rear of the other pontoon, the farthest to the rear the better.
That would require getting the winch around a pontoon section which may be impossible, but probable.
Hook a tow line to each, string it along the side of both pontoons to the trucks.
Put another winch strap around the front of each pontoon and rope to make sure the rope will stay inline with the direction of travel.
Pull gently for a little ways and let the water in the pontoons settle out. Repeat.

 

[Aussiebushman]

Exactly!

Re tubes inside the hulls, conventional car tubes will fit inside so I'll get a couple and once inflated, they might as well stay there for permanent flotation. However, as stated earlier, they will probably be too high to lift the stern as high as it needs to go for recovery. Please remember that unlike a kayak, this boat weight about 600Kg even without the water inside

The tractor tubes now purchased are too big to get through the hatch covers into the confined spaces at the stern BUT one of top of the other placed under the aft deck will provide massive lift right where it is needed. The only hassle will be getting them in place, then running the compressor line under the boat to inflate them - hence my need for a warmer diving suit than the wet-suit I already have

The only problems with straps is that even he 5m ones are costly and they are hard to get in 10+ metre lengths at any cost I can justify. Rope is cheap and the previous suggestion of placing a beam right across the stern will make it easy to fix in place as well as spreading the load.

Straps or ropes from the bow are doable but the fixings are not as strong

 

[square1]

re: tubes in hulls: Don't think lift, think displacement. The average 20 foot pontoon log filled with water would weigh approximately a metric ton each.

Seeing the boat recovery rigs around here, I don't think they even attempt to lift a boat until they can displace as much water water from the logs / hulls as possible. They all have huge on-board air compressors. The average compressor can't deliver the volume of air required to overcome the water entering, hence the tubes to contain the air inside the hulls.

Car tubes inside the hulls might want to go wider than the hulls once pressurized which could blow out the sides of the hull. The hull's design is to not implode from external pressure, it's design is not to withstand internal pressure.

 

[texasranger556]

Will this thread make it to 100 replies before the first attempt at recovery is made? Stay tuned to find out!

Kidding...But seriously you need some pictures and videos of the recovery (attempt?) now that you have everyone interested!

 

[flyerdan]

Has anyone considered a gas (petrol) powered trash pump to drain the hulls? If it would be feasible to tee both hulls into the pump without losing the prime if one side goes dry first it should remove water faster than it comes in. Then, once the bottom suction breaks it should pop up and be loaded with little problem.

 

[Aussiebushman]

Probably should have provided this schematic in the first place to illustrate the angles involved.

Agree completely. Problem with hiring gear like a trash pump is the distance from nearest city to this property - a 3 hour round trip - once to collect and again to return it. My compressor is just a typical "handyman" shop version but more than adequate for filling tubes.

Also as stated earlier, tubes inside the hulls will not add much displacement because the hatch access is quite small and the hull volume at that point is very limited. I also agree that outward pressure in not what the hulls were designed to take

The positive element is that angle of the boat means the hulls have 50% fill at most. Also, when floating normally the deck is only about 300 mm above the water line, so while sunk, tubes placed between the deck and the earth surface should be capable of lifting the aft ends high enough to allow pulling onto the ramps without doing damage. Once the boat reaches about the "half out" position, the angle will allow much of the water to drain.

That is the theory anyway!

 

[redman135]

Aussiebushman,do the load straps have to be 10m? The transport industry standard strap is 9m($37.00 - $44.00). I suggest you enquire price at a transport equipment company NOT Super Cheap Auto or auto parts store as they charge full price ($58.00 - $60.00) in NZ. I assume they will have a similar price policy in Oz as a lot of companys in New Zealnd are headquartered in Australia.

 

[Aussiebushman]

Thanks Redman - worth a try. The 5m strap I already have came from ARB and cost around $80 some years ago. I found 20 m of 17 mm double braid on Gumtree for only $25 so that is on the way. It will be fine for mooring lines etc after this job

 

[ak9]

I'm curious if you could raise the water level in the lake /pond ? If you could raise the water and float it a little higher up the bank and repeat maybe a time or two might get it in a better position? I've used 55gal. drums strapped together to lift sunk objects that and some creative Bowline/knot tying .... inter tubes might work better if placed in a netting of sorts to keep um from stress squiring where you don't want them to go ....

 

[Aussiebushman]

I'm curious if you could raise the water level in the lake /pond ? If you could raise the water and float it a little higher up the bank and repeat maybe a time or two might get it in a better position?

Even if it was feasible to raise the water level, it would only make things worse because the stern of the boat in on the bottom. I did think about drums but the inner tubes will be easier to lash to the underside of the deck - there should be plenty of lift from 2 tractor tubes

Everything is on hold again - the neighbor who was to help me had a near-heart attack and 4 stents later is out of action for several weeks. The other possible neighbor stepped off what he though was the bottom rung of a ladder and has a busted ankle!

This is what comes of living upside down trying not to fall off the planet

 

[TCJatko]

An interesting read. Hopefully this will all work out for you. Looking forward to positive results.

 

[rfc143]

Sorry to be a naysayer, but honestly....in less time than it takes one to read all the posts in this thread, you could have the boat out of the water and on the bank, and do it for less than $75 or $80 (US). Buy two "come-along" wire rope ratchet winches; attach with your straps or whatever you have to get to the rear winches; attach the other end to your trucks, tractor, tree, or whatever, and then just patiently ratchet it up onto the bank. I don't think you even need ramps. What everyone is missing is that doing this slowly, will allow the water level within the hulls to leave the same way it entered at the same rate you winch it. The boat will get lighter and lighter as you go. I've moved thousands of pounds of equipment using these with no problem at all (just a bit of time).
I'm really having a hard time understanding the problem here, along with all the elaborate recovery ideas. it's not like you're raising the Costa Concordia!

 

[DavesTractor]

Sorry to be a naysayer, but honestly....in less time than it takes one to read all the posts in this thread, you could have the boat out of the water and on the bank, and do it for less than $75 or $80 (US). Buy two "come-along" wire rope ratchet winches; attach with your straps or whatever you have to get to the rear winches; attach the other end to your trucks, tractor, tree, or whatever, and then just patiently ratchet it up onto the bank. I don't think you even need ramps. What everyone is missing is that doing this slowly, will allow the water level within the hulls to leave the same way it entered at the same rate you winch it. The boat will get lighter and lighter as you go. I've moved thousands of pounds of equipment using these with no problem at all (just a bit of time).
I'm really having a hard time understanding the problem here, along with all the elaborate recovery ideas. it's not like you're raising the Costa Concordia!

What you say is probably true, but it is sort of fun to banter back and forth regarding all sorts of possible solutions.

I hang out with and have quite a few family members that are engineers. Mechanical, chemical, electrical, and so forth. You ought to see us tackling the simplest problem at times. We get all sorts of great ideas, and no doubt as we sit and discuss and plan, we may well have been able to have tackled said project in the worst way possible and have been done before the best way possible plan was scrutinized and finalized. Generally someone will interrupt the plan with "ah guys, let's just hold that board up there, stick a level on it and hit it with the nail gun, we are building a closet, not a rocket". What, no lasers, not fancy trig, no ropes or pulleys?

So as I chuckle at this project, I chuckle at myself.