Can all tractors flip over easy?

[Sawyer Rob]

You won't flip this tractor over easily, backwards, forwards or sideways!

SR

 

[JWR]

Primarily because the CG is extremely low. And the ratio between the CG height from the ground to the width of the tracks at the ground is way lower than any farm tractor.

 

[Torvy]

^Exactly..weight is important, but can be overstated. Take an absurd example and assume 60% of the weight was above the seat. A top-heavy tractor is no less tippy because it is heavy...it is about multiple factors...low center of gravity and a wide base are even more important than weight, imho.

Another vote for the OP, anything can be tipped, rolled, or flipped if proper care is not taken. That being said, some are more easily unbalanced than others.

 

[beenthere]

I thought about buying an older tractor like an 8N, but then I started reading about them flipping over. I'm sure you can use common sense be pretty safe, but I got to thinking that maybe all tractors could flip? Was looking for advice on safety. I was thinking I probably need a sub compact now because they look safer, but I could be fooling myself.

It for plowing new ground with stumps and roots, mostly the leftover roots.

Edit: I have no experience with tractors, if you couldn't tell.

The 8N Ford is probably one of the least likely to flip backwards if you don't pull above the axle line.
If using 3ph attachments like a moldboard plow, then little to no worry.
Also the 8N Fords are quite stable on slopes so will not lay over easily. Stance of the wheels are important.
The 8N Fords won't flip you off.

The hysteria shown in the posts in this thread are frightening. Apparently posted by many folks who know little to nothing about tractors. Good luck sorting through this mess.
Find a buddy who has an 8N Ford and try to get some experience and direction with hands-on teaching.

 

[sandytrail]

I agree with everyone regarding the flipping of a tractor. I once was trying to move a mobile home with a Farmall C. I let out the clutch and was looking behind me to see the home move. When I turned around the front of the tractor was 4 feet in the air. I immediately stepped on the clutch and it dropped. I learned about trying to move an immovable load that day.
On another important issue, you shouldn't buy a Ford 8N for what you described. They don't have power steering, independent PTOs or roll over protection. You should be looking at something newer with at least 35HP. Just my 2 cents.

 

[MAX-24-Dean]

Don't confuse me with facts, I've already made up my mind...

I agree!! LOL!

 

[PorterMF65]

I thought about buying an older tractor like an 8N, but then I started reading about them flipping over. I'm sure you can use common sense be pretty safe, but I got to thinking that maybe all tractors could flip? Was looking for advice on safety. I was thinking I probably need a sub compact now because they look safer, but I could be fooling myself.

It for plowing new ground with stumps and roots, mostly the leftover roots.

Edit: I have no experience with tractors, if you couldn't tell.

I have 2 tractors. One is a MF65 which is not impossible to turn over but you would really have to be doing something you shouldn't be to roll it. I think it's a 1963. I have a Kubota which is a loader that I don't like to operate without the box blade on the back. I can't remember what number it is. It is very scary on uneven ground. It's not real small but it's not big enough or heavy enough for a lot of things. If I had a had a hydraulic bucket on the Massey, the Kubota would never get used. Hope this helps.

 

[TheMan419]

I live in a portion of Indiana that makes Kansas look hilly... I rolled my tractor moving manure. That was something I had done at least 1000 times before. I just had a moment of inattention and carelessness. Rear tires were NOT loaded and I did not have any rear ballast on the machine. You can bet the tractor came back from the shop with rears loaded. Makes things SO MUCH MORE STABLE.

I would personally NOT operate a tractor without a ROPS and of course I would never fold the ROPS down during operation. Wear your seatbelt.

 

[Beeenvenue]

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Tractor capability is more closely correlated to tractor weight than any other single (1) specification. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

When considering a tractor purchase bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third (for stability under load), rear wheel/tire ballast fourth (partly for stability under load).

I’m sorry but I disagree.

The total package must be considered. What are you using it for? What is your budget? What is your experience level? How many hours per year? Distance to dealer? How many different things are you going to use it for? Will you need to trailer it? How much time do you have to accomplish your tasks? What kind of soil do you have? Will you need to drive it from location to location? Etc

If I had unlimited budget I might agree but your posts always focus on weight. I had to trailer mine for years so the most I could get was a 35hp kioti. Regardless. Because I couldn’t afford a new truck to pull a larger machine and that was the heaviest and largest I could pull, with bushog and loader, on my existing pickup. Or are you suggesting I drop 75k on a new truck and an extra 5k on a larger trailer just to spend an extra 10k on my larger tractor so I can have extra weight? Perhaps I can live with a smaller machine and spend a little extra time with smaller implements to accomplish the same task. After all, we are typically talking CUT/SCUT users here not those who make their living in ag.

In a vacuum, perhaps you are correct but most of us live in the real world and our choices are sets and series of compromises. Constantly focusing on weight only without regard to other possible limitations doesn’t help.

 

[SmallChange]

There's nothing special about pulling a load from below the rear axle to prevent it flipping backwards, and this does not make the load push the front down harder.

The lower the load is pulled from, the better. If the load is pulled from exactly ground level it does not provide up ward or downward force on the front. Pulling from anywhere above ground level tends to lift the front, in proportion to the height of the pull. Pulling from below ground (such as with a ripper or subsoiler encountering an obstacle at its bottom) pushes the front down. Front downward force changes from positive to negative as you move the load downward through ground level.

Nothing changes particularly at axle height, there's only the general trend that lower is always better.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

There's nothing special about pulling a load from below the rear axle to prevent it flipping backwards, and this does not make the load push the front down harder.

The lower the load is pulled from, the better. If the load is pulled from exactly ground level it does not provide up ward or downward force on the front. Pulling from anywhere above ground level tends to lift the front, in proportion to the height of the pull. Pulling from below ground (such as with a ripper or subsoiler encountering an obstacle at its bottom) pushes the front down. Front downward force changes from positive to negative as you move the load downward through ground level.

Nothing changes particularly at axle height, there's only the general trend that lower is always better.

Learn to draw a free body diagram and your opinion will change.

If the tension on the pulled load is below the center of the axle that moment is trying to pull the nose down. If pull from the load is above the center of the axle, it adds to the tendency to bring the nose up.

 

[npalen]

There's nothing special about pulling a load from below the rear axle to prevent it flipping backwards, and this does not make the load push the front down harder.

The lower the load is pulled from, the better. If the load is pulled from exactly ground level it does not provide up ward or downward force on the front. Pulling from anywhere above ground level tends to lift the front, in proportion to the height of the pull. Pulling from below ground (such as with a ripper or subsoiler encountering an obstacle at its bottom) pushes the front down. Front downward force changes from positive to negative as you move the load downward through ground level.

Nothing changes particularly at axle height, there's only the general trend that lower is always better.

I'm sorry, but this is bad information.

 

[SmallChange]

Learn to draw a free body diagram and your opinion will change.

I'm a degreed professional physicist with 41 years experience, and used to tutor physics students in free body diagrams among other things. I think your free body diagram is drawn wrong.

I think you're imagining the wheels blocked in place somehow and the tractor free to pivot at the axle, in which case pulling below the axle but above the ground will lower the front. However, this isn't what is happening if the tractor is holding its position by driving (or braking) its own wheels.

A flipping tractor is pivoting relative to the ground at the point it contacts the ground. If you imagine a tractor with gigantic wheels, this becomes more clear. When a tractor flips backwards, the axle travels rearward, it's not stationary. Points on the tractor and wheel below the axle also travel rearward, just not as far.

All of this is related to geometric points in the tractor system such as the axle and, more importantly, the contact point with the ground. The center of gravity isn't especially important here, at least not until we start asking exactly how hard we're pulling, what the tractor weighs, et cetera.

 

[LouNY]

This thread is almost getting hilarious. There are so many variables involved in any tractor roll over, lay over or rear roll over.
I've lived and operated tractors much of my life on steep hills with fully mounted, semi mounted and towed (trailered) equipment.
I have pulled from fixed drawbars, lift arm drawbars, and 3 point hitch drawbars.
I've had an unknown number of tractors spin out from insufficient traction for the load, I've had tractors rear up from trailed loads and mounted loads,
including 3 point hitch mounted loads when the implement met an unmovable object and the tractor had the traction to keep moving or more traction on the ground then the force needed to lift the front end from the rotational force of the tires and the pulling force of the load.
Talk about getting the adrenaline flowing have those front tires start heading for the sky and then sitting there with the front tires several feet in the air with the clutch in and the brakes on trying to ease the front end back down so as not to break things when the tires touch down.
Now this talk of free body diagrams, oh boy. Drawings for dynamic events.
"A flipping tractor is pivoting relative to the ground at the point it contacts the ground" NO.
It is pivoting around the axle centerline if flipping from the applied load. If flipping only from a lifting load with the tires not rolling possibly.
If flipping from spinning out while pulling a load up a grade, then being pulled back down the grade by the load and suddenly regaining traction it is again rotating around the axle centerline.

You all have fun beating this to death.

 

[SmallChange]

Perhaps the most helpful thing would be to always pull difficult loads with the drawbar. Meaning, the official fixed drawbar, that sticks out of a receiver and has holes for various hitches. Not a "cross drawbar" on the arms.

Drawbars are designed to make flipping backwards practically impossible. Not only are they down low, they are also further back than the ground contact point (and axle). And, they are rigid to the frame, unlike "cross drawbars" where the arms can swing up (most of them can anyway).

By design, because they're behind the contact point and axle, as the tractor starts to rear up, the drawbar goes down, which decreases the leverage trying to flip backwards. This is by design, to prevent flipping backwards caused just by pulling too difficult a load.

Of course you can flip backwards pointed up a steep slope, or adding weight behind the wheels, or for other reasons. But by design you can't do it simply by pulling too hard at this drawbar.

 

[LouNY]

ever been to a tractor pull??????

 

[MossRoad]

ever been to a tractor pull??????

They’re required to have wheelie bars.

 

[LouNY]

They’re required to have wheelie bars.

Otherwise they have the capability of flipping completely over with a drawbar hooked pulling load.
Exactly my point....

 

[ptsg]

Don't they raise the drawbar on those pull tractors to increase the traction on the rear axle? Which is completely the opposite on a tractor, as it pulls under the axle and not above or inline.

 

[CobyRupert]

Otherwise they have the capability of flipping completely over with a drawbar hooked pulling load.
Exactly my point....

Been going to those tractor pulls up the road from you since I was about 4 years old in the 1970’s, back when there was a picket snow fence to separate the fans from the edge of the track, 20’ of bleacher seats and the rest of the fans where on top of pickups and cattle trucks backed up to the track. Plenty of beer and cops to break up the fights...but back to the subject.

…I think they can flip backward because it’s a dynamic load..rotational momentum is required as well as a change (lessening) to the pulling action/traction of the tires, happening at the exact right moment.

In a more “steady state” pull, you will often see the front end rise to an “equilibrium” height and stay there, defined by the geometry of drawbar, and axle heights (and front end weight and pulling force, etc..)

2cents