bx FEL bucket quick attach

[Cap-n-Cray]

A complete set of pins, grease fittings, bolts, and nuts is $44.45 plus tax. I bought a set to do some experimenting. I have also worked on the bushing material.

I think pins are the way to go. I just ordered the micro max fork set with a blank back. I hope to mount it so it replaces the bucket.

Cary

 

[Just2quickz28]

The pins are not the only issue with the front bucket attachment, lining up the holes on the FEL arms and the bucket is a pain, its not THAT bad with the bucket but my plow is a PITA thats why I think the ATI points of contact where triangular.

I have swaped out the front bucket for my plow 7 or 8 times this year, because the weather man said SNOW, it takes me 20-25 mins by myself to line up the bucket and drive the pins in. I do not have a garage (just a car port that the machine is in for now) so 20mins in the cold messing with pins is not cutting it

 

[bx24]

Guys, I just saw this thread and when I get some time (in the next few months), I too will be going down the fabrication road transforming my FEL bucket to QR.

After looking at a bunch of possibilities, I am convinced my best route is to upgrade the overall Kubota design.

Since my machine just left its warranty period, I first plan to replace the main FEL hydraulic rams with larger units:

Surplus Center Item Detail

After that is complete, I plan to abandon the use of the "center dump" ram on the bucket and instead make new mounts on the "bend" of the FEL arms and use both rams I took off (one on each side) instead of the center one (see the attached for a JD example of how it will end up looking). While this is somewhat radical, it solves virtually all of the problems I can think involving the existing center ram.

I am also hoping to use the abandoned center ram mount on the FEL cross tube to make a "self closing" grapple. This would eliminate the need to run extra auxiliary hydraulics up front (see my crude drawing)

As many of you have mentioned before, the FEL capacity is limited to the 500lb range. While I am not hoping to dramatically increase the FEL's capacity, I would like to get it to the point where the FEL can lift enough to tip the tractor (much like larger loaders and skid steers can). With this added capacity comes both more danger and stress. I am comfortable with the danger part and with some reinforcing plates like the B21 uses to the FOPS, this should take care of the stress part (BTW, I am replacing my ROPS with a homemade FOPS)

With the added capacity and a light duty QR bracket of less than 100 lbs (the bucket weighs 200lbs by itself) this should help things out.

Poke holes in my ideas - feedback comments are always welcome.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Perhaps the ATI design, by adding some length to the center coupling, is actually forming a cam, or camming action against the bucket. One of the members here with Solid Works, or a modeling program like that could lay that out in 3d. At some loss in range of motion, one of the attaching points could be slotted. I agree that there is probably a good market for a lightweight, and simple QD mechanism for the BX series. I don't have my BX now, so I can't take measurements, but this is an interesting problem to work out. There is no reason that a solution can't be found.

 

[johnray13]

Guys, I just saw this thread and when I get some time (in the next few months), I too will be going down the fabrication road transforming my FEL bucket to QR.

After looking at a bunch of possibilities, I am convinced my best route is to upgrade the overall Kubota design.

Since my machine just left its warranty period, I first plan to replace the main FEL hydraulic rams with larger units:

Surplus Center Item Detail

After that is complete, I plan to abandon the use of the "center dump" ram on the bucket and instead make new mounts on the "bend" of the FEL arms and use both rams I took off (one on each side) instead of the center one (see the attached for a JD example of how it will end up looking). While this is somewhat radical, it solves virtually all of the problems I can think involving the existing center ram.

I am also hoping to use the abandoned center ram mount on the FEL cross tube to make a "self closing" grapple. This would eliminate the need to run extra auxiliary hydraulics up front (see my crude drawing)

As many of you have mentioned before, the FEL capacity is limited to the 500lb range. While I am not hoping to dramatically increase the FEL's capacity, I would like to get it to the point where the FEL can lift enough to tip the tractor (much like larger loaders and skid steers can). With this added capacity comes both more danger and stress. I am comfortable with the danger part and with some reinforcing plates like the B21 uses to the FOPS, this should take care of the stress part (BTW, I am replacing my ROPS with a homemade FOPS)

With the added capacity and a light duty QR bracket of less than 100 lbs (the bucket weighs 200lbs by itself) this should help things out.

Poke holes in my ideas - feedback comments are always welcome.

While I like your idea of adding a cylinder to the bucket, I have a couple questions.

Instead of replacing your lift cylinders, why not increase the hydraulic pressure from its factory setting of around 1800 psi to 2000? Or 2400?

The pressure relief valve for the loader is independent of both the backhoe (has it's own) and the HST, which is a separate system and relief valve, that runs at a much higher pressure (around 3000psi)

Increasing the relief valve pressure is a five minute job that requires a 28 cent shim.

I am confident you can achieve what you desire- lifting to the tipping point- but with the back hoe installed, that is a LOT of weight on this tractor.

I think your stresses on the loader would be the same going either route.
I know my BX will lift over 800 lbs easily-several feet off the ground. If you are limited to 500lbs I would check your system pressure.

John

 

[bx24]

Increasing the relief valve pressure is a five minute job that requires a 28 cent shim.

John

John-

I like the idea of turning up the relief PSI .... I am sold (now I just have to learn how! I think I understand the concept, but I am clueless to the actual procedure)

Even with that, I think I am still leaning towards the "two ram" bucket dump design. Using one in the middle not only ties up that middle space with flanges etc, but that design forces what ever is attached to the middle to be able to withstand a bunch of torque. While I will defend these small tractors as true mini-workhorses, there must be good reasons why virtually all larger tractors utilize two cylinders.

 

[amigauser]

I wish I could get my hands on the discontinued BX model to try adjustments. I think there would be a decent sized market for something like this for the BX series.

I believe Woodbury Tractor in CT has one in stock. Click on the link below, it is the 2nd item from the top.
Inventory - Woodbury Tractor Company, LLC

Norm

 

[Just2quickz28]

I believe Woodbury Tractor in CT has one in stock. Click on the link below, it is the 2nd item from the top.
Inventory - Woodbury Tractor Company, LLC

Norm

Norm thanks, I will give them a call hopefully they still have it, even if I end up breaking it I think it would cost me more in material to start from scratch.

 

[Just2quickz28]

Ok, I have actually found an ATI Pin Type model 100049 which according to the 2006 ATI product list fits LA181, LA210, LA211.

Are the front bucket mounting points the same with the LA240 on the BX24?

Can some one with one of those loaders measure the front bucket mounting dimensions the space where the arms go into the bucket. And the width from the outside to outside of the side mounting points.

 

[johnray13]

John-

I like the idea of turning up the relief PSI .... I am sold (now I just have to learn how! I think I understand the concept, but I am clueless to the actual procedure)

Even with that, I think I am still leaning towards the "two ram" bucket dump design. Using one in the middle not only ties up that middle space with flanges etc, but that design forces what ever is attached to the middle to be able to withstand a bunch of torque. While I will defend these small tractors as true mini-workhorses, there must be good reasons why virtually all larger tractors utilize two cylinders.

Paul,

I think you are on to something with the idea of adding a dump/curl cylinder. I have been mulling this over for a while myself.

It has always seemed to me that the single cylinder is too under powered and it is way to slow. I have used Bobcats (skid steers) and one of the features that works very well is the speed of the curl. You can pop material up almost like a cook flipping a pancake with the bucket.

Here is what I would like to do but haven't figured out: I would like to increase the power and speed of the bucket. I have bumped up the releif setting to 2000psi (the factory spec is around 1800psi-I can walk you thru that if you 'd like) That made a difference, not too much, maybe around 100 pounds or so in the lift.

Let me think this over this afternoon and I'll post some thoughts later about how this might work.
John

 

[bx24]

Paul,

I have bumped up the releif setting to 2000psi (the factory spec is around 1800psi-I can walk you thru that if you 'd like) That made a difference, not too much, maybe around 100 pounds or so in the lift.

John

John-

If you did bump yours up to 2000 psi and it only help about 100 lbs worth, I may be opting to go with the larger cylinders again. As mentioned, either way I am going to have to purchase 2 more cylinders for the front curl. If I up-size the current ones, that will run me about $90 ea, if I leave the FEL cylinders alone, I saw some what would work for $60 ea to use on the curl circuit.

As far as "flipping things" with the bucket, I know exactly what you mean having run larger machines. The challenge I think you are going to run into is not one of pressure (or even the capacity of the cylinders), but one of flow. The output on med size (4000lb) skid loaders is 3-4x the pump output of our tractor. Having that much flow is what I would think would give the ability to cycle the bucket faster (that and larger hoses).

While I would love to have quicker cycle times, I would be a little more satisfied with more power on demand.

Let me know what you think and yes I would like some help on adjusting the relief.

 

[bx24]

For you other guys looking into "less drastic" modifications (keeping the center cylinder), I think you are going to have to beef up the QR plate similar to a skid-steer's setup. The big problem with this is again the weight. If you make it strong enough, you are losing too much capacity.

What ever you guys end up doing, post some pics and I will do the same. Maybe we should have waited for the B26 instead!

 

[Just2quickz28]

For you other guys looking into "less drastic" modifications (keeping the center cylinder), I think you are going to have to beef up the QR plate similar to a skid-steer's setup. The big problem with this is again the weight. If you make it strong enough, you are losing too much capacity.

What ever you guys end up doing, post some pics and I will do the same. Maybe we should have waited for the B26 instead!

Well while I like your idea, my machine is still under warranty so that much cutting and welding is out of the question for now. Yes I do agree the B26 is a nice machine probably should have waited. But since this is my first house and the wifes already talking about moving to a bigger spread of land at some point I will probably end up upgrading. And is it really worth it to do that drastic of a change to the BX unless your planning on keeping it forever trade it in for a bigger machine

 

[bx24]

That is the real question (modify or upgrade) ... now you have me thinking .....

 

[Just2quickz28]

I am still trying to find out if the ATI part made for the BX22/23 will fit the LA240 loader on my BX24. I really only plan on using it for the plow and bucket during the winter months.

I have measured the mounting points on the front bucket and where the FEL arms meet. I have attached a picture the raised black spots are what I was measuring, the two outer mounting points from inside to inside the plates measured 2 7/8 inches and the center point measures 3 1/8 inches ( I might be a hair off because I was measuring by flashlight ) There is play in the two side mounts I would say about 2/8s of an inch making the arms about 2 5/8s wide at the points where the pins go through.

Now the plow I was given from my uncle that was custom made for a BX2200 I had to modify at the 2 side pins because they where too tight to fit on my FEL arms they were about 1/8 of an inch too small. Now I want to pass this off on my uncles tolerances for measurements (no GAPs or play).

If anyone could either verify these measurements or make the same ones on a BX22/23 it would really help me out. If not I think I will have to load up the entire FEL into my truck and drive the 2.5 hours each way to where the dealer is with the kit. Someone want to save me a trip

 

[SkunkWerX]

I am going to toy with making the existing Pin Holes "quicker" than they are now.

OR

Fab some flanges to accept the exiting pins, fit them permanently in the flanges, then another set of Quick pins that do the coupling/uncoupling, more along the lines of a 3PH, sorta. Then all other attachments would fit up to the Quick Pins on the flanges, existing pins stay as is?

I'll need to think this through, and will probably need to wait until warmer weather and get some other current projects out of the way.

 

[RedDirt]

OR
Fab some flanges to accept the exiting pins, fit them permanently in the flanges, then another set of Quick pins that do the coupling/uncoupling, more along the lines of a 3PH, sorta. Then all other attachments would fit up to the Quick Pins on the flanges, existing pins stay as is?

I think this may be the way to go. Perhaps the curl flange could have a tab that slides into a mating assembly and locks in place similar to a skid steer and the two lift arm flange pins are slip fit and lynch pinned. A lightweight triangular plate could keep the three cylinder flanges registered so the hook up sequence would be to grab the curl tab, lift, get off and lever lock the curl tab and slip pin the two arms.

Here is what I would like to do but haven't figured out: I would like to increase the power and speed of the bucket. I have bumped up the relief setting to 2000psi (the factory spec is around 1800psi-I can walk you thru that if you 'd like) That made a difference, not too much, maybe around 100 pounds or so in the lift.

Could you please post the sequence to bump up the FEL relief setting?

A complete set of pins, grease fittings, bolts, and nuts is $44.45 plus tax. I bought a set to do some experimenting. I have also worked on the bushing material .

What do you suppose the reduction in pin diameter would need to be to make the factory pins slip fit to the loader bushings?

 

[Just2quickz28]

I could also use instructions on how to bump up the PSI in the relief valve. eventually I want to add a grapple and weighing in at 80 lbs that 100 lbs would def. help

 

[Just2quickz28]

Double post

 

[SkunkWerX]

QUOTE : What do you suppose the reduction in pin diameter would need to be to make the factory pins slip fit to the loader bushings?

I'm guessing not too much. If they can be tapped out with a hammer and block of wood, a thousandth or two off the pins should make them fairly loose, but still able to hold some grease and not rattle or be too loose.
Maybe just some work with some emery paper or some 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper??

First things first, I'd like to try removing the pins (when I get some free time) and take some tolerance measurements.
I would imagine, over time, and with some regular usage, those pins get looser on their own?

We are currently working on the premise that they take about 15 or 20 mins to drive out, but, what if that could be reduced to less than 5 mins? In my mind, then, you simply build your other attachments to fit the stock pin locations and VIOLA!!