Bought a trailer!

[coldsteelva]

I understand. Thanks aczlan.

 

[fried1765]

[Q



Aaron Z[/QUOTE]

Thank you!
I thought that was the case, but have heard other interpretations.
Bottom line here though is: In situations like this, and at 76 years old, I now tend to do as I need to do, and spend minimal time worrying about possible consequences, unless of course safety issues are involved.
That said: Towing of this rig is very infrequent, on dry pavement, in daylight only, and at 60 mph or less.
Tailgating is an absolute NO! NO!
The only potential problem is stopping, and I keep the trailer brakes set to come on early, firmly.

So: Why did the OP need to have his 14K trailer de-rated to 9990 lbs?
Surely his GMC 2500 HD does not weigh 16,000 lbs.(26K max combination).

Are we talking about rated weights here, or actual loaded weights?
If a trailer is rated at 14,000 lbs, but only loaded to 10,000 lbs., how is legality determined?
Is towing legality determined by the registered trailer weight, or by what the loaded trailer weight actually is?
Example: Would a truck weighing 16,000 lbs. towing a trailer REGISTERED for 14,000 lbs. but only loaded to 9990 lbs. be legal without a CDL?

 

[aczlan]

So: Why did the OP need to have his 14K trailer de-rated to 9990 lbs?
Surely his GMC 2500 HD does not weigh 16,000 lbs.(26K max combination).

Are we talking about rated weights here, or actual loaded weights?
If a trailer is rated at 14,000 lbs, but only loaded to 10,000 lbs., how is legality determined?
Is towing legality determined by the registered trailer weight, or by what the loaded trailer weight actually is?
Example: Would a truck weighing 16,000 lbs. towing a trailer REGISTERED for 14,000 lbs. but only loaded to 9990 lbs. be legal without a CDL?

It goes by rated/registered weight, not actual weight (which is why I used GCWR/GVWR).
CA says that a truck and trailer with a GCWR of 26k or more (when towing a trailer rated for at 10k (or more)) needs a CDL, so if his truck is rated for 16k GVWR, the trailer has to be under 10k or he needs some flavor of a CDL (per: California CDL Requirements - Trucker Country ).

Aaron Z

 

[George2615]

Example: Would a truck weighing 16,000 lbs. towing a trailer REGISTERED for 14,000 lbs. but only loaded to 9990 lbs. be legal without a CDL?

I guess it would depend on weigh station inspectors in your state whether they go by actual weight or registered weight.
Per your example most weigh station inspectors in my state go by what the GCWR of truck and trailer is capable of. With your example the truck and trailer GCWR is 30K it would require a CDL.

So even though a 16K truck towing a 9,990 lb trailer is under the 26K requiring a CDL the registered GCWR of the truck / trailer could be 30K. Inspectors would say you have the capability of going over the 26K limit for non-CDL so a CDL would be required. If the truck is registered at 16K and trailer registered at 9990 no CDL required.

 

[fried1765]

I guess it would depend on weigh station inspectors in your state whether they go by actual weight or registered weight.
Per your example most weigh station inspectors in my state go by what the GCWR of truck and trailer is capable of. With your example the truck and trailer GCWR is 30K it would require a CDL.

So even though a 16K truck towing a 9,990 lb trailer is under the 26K requiring a CDL the registered GCWR of the truck / trailer could be 30K. Inspectors would say you have the capability of going over the 26K limit for non-CDL so a CDL would be required. If the truck is registered at 16K and trailer registered at 9990 no CDL required.

Thanks again!
What you describe certainly makes sense, but....
Ouch! Different rules for different states? Certainly makes for a potentially messy interstate situation.
It would seem that the OP towing with a GMC 2500 HD could have kept the GVWR weight rating of his trailer at 14,000 lbs.
I am not aware that there has ever been a GMC 2500 HD built, with a GVWR of over 12,000 lbs?

 

[aczlan]

I guess it would depend on weigh station inspectors in your state whether they go by actual weight or registered weight.
Per your example most weigh station inspectors in my state go by what the GCWR of truck and trailer is capable of. With your example the truck and trailer GCWR is 30K it would require a CDL.
So even though a 16K truck towing a 9,990 lb trailer is under the 26K requiring a CDL the registered GCWR of the truck / trailer could be 30K. Inspectors would say you have the capability of going over the 26K limit for non-CDL so a CDL would be required. If the truck is registered at 16K and trailer registered at 9990 no CDL required.

It depends.
If the OP had the trailer re-tagged by the manufacturer (ie: the manufacturer's capacity plate says that its rated for 9,990#) that is not the case.
If its a 14k trailer that is registered for 9,990# (ie: the manufacturer's capacity plate say that its a 14k trailer but its only registered for 9,990#) then, yes you are correct he could be required to get a CDL.
That's why many manufacturers offer a 9,990# capacity option.

Aaron Z

 

[George2615]

I have a 2016 Chevy 2500 HD crew cab regular box. GVWR is 9500
My PJ 22' TF trailer GVWR is 14,000
I did not derate my trailer. I have gone through the local weigh station without issue. They checked my license, registrations and inspection then checked to see tractor and implements were secured properly and waved me on.

 

[aczlan]

I have a 2016 Chevy 2500 HD crew cab regular box. GVWR is 9500
My PJ 22' TF trailer GVWR is 14,000
I did not derate my trailer. I have gone through the local weigh station without issue. They checked my license, registrations and inspection then checked to see tractor and implements were secured properly and waved me on.

True, that works because your GCWR with that truck and trailer is 23,500#, you don't need a CDL until the GCWR is over 26,001#.
If your truck's GVWR was 12,0001 you would need a CDL to tow that trailer.

Aaron Z

 

[George2615]

It depends.
If the OP had the trailer re-tagged by the manufacturer (ie: the manufacturer's capacity plate says that its rated for 9,990#) that is not the case.
If its a 14k trailer that is registered for 9,990# (ie: the manufacturer's capacity plate say that its a 14k trailer but its only registered for 9,990#) then, yes you are correct he could be required to get a CDL.
That's why many manufacturers offer a 9,990# capacity option.

Aaron Z

In post 22 his example did say a 16K truck towing a 14K registered trailer. Even if the trailer was empty he'd require a CDL but, as stated if the trailer had the factory 9990 cap tag plate he would not.

I have my CDL so not an issue for me. The OP does not.

I have a neighbor (in his late 20's- early 30's) with a 1T dually. He hauls a 28' goose neck dually trailer rated for 20K. He's been driving it for years. I always thought he had a class A but found out from another neighbor he got PO'ed when he got a ticket for driving out of class. The State PD had a road check set up for license, reg, and insurance and caught him as he went through. I think he must have figured since his truck trailer, and load was under 26K he was good to go. I don't know if he upgraded his license but he's still towing the trailer.

 

[fried1765]

In post 22 his example did say a 16K truck towing a 14K registered trailer. Even if the trailer was empty he'd require a CDL but, as stated if the trailer had the factory 9990 cap tag plate he would not.

I have my CDL so not an issue for me. The OP does not.

So..... my question still is ....
Why would the OP de-rate his 14,000 GVWR trailer when he is towing with a 9,500 GVWR (GMC 2500 HD diesel) vehicle?
Without the de-rate he would still only be at 23,500lbs. GVWR combined, well under the 26,001 limit.

 

[aczlan]

So..... my question still is ....
Why would the OP de-rate his 14,000 GVWR trailer when he is towing with a 9,500 GVWR (GMC 2500 HD diesel) vehicle?
Without the de-rate he would still only be at 23,500lbs. GVWR combined, well under the 26,001 limit.

In case he buys a 3500 down the road? I don't know why otherwise.

Aaron Z

 

[George2615]

So..... my question still is ....
Why would the OP de-rate his 14,000 GVWR trailer when he is towing with a 9,500 GVWR (GMC 2500 HD diesel) vehicle?
Without the de-rate he would still only be at 23,500lbs. GVWR combined, well under the 26,001 limit.

I don't know why he had his trailer de-rated either. Maybe he thought he needed a CDL if he didn't.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have a 2016 Chevy 2500 HD crew cab regular box. GVWR is 9500
My PJ 22' TF trailer GVWR is 14,000
I did not derate my trailer. I have gone through the local weigh station without issue. They checked my license, registrations and inspection then checked to see tractor and implements were secured properly and waved me on.

Around hereyes if you have non commercial plates they will laugh if you pull into a weight station and simply wave you through the bypass lane.

 

[3930dave]

I don't know why he had his trailer de-rated either. Maybe he thought he needed a CDL if he didn't.

Depends where you are living....... here you'd need a CDL - as nice as OP's trailer is, the fines here would probably exceed the purchase cost of the trailer. Wish I was joking.

Somebody on here posted about growing up in Montana, when there were more laws on the books about horses, than ones for vehicles. Today, the vehicle laws are so convoluted in some jurisdictions that I'm not convinced that all Transportation officials know all of them.

Progress ?

Rgds, D.

 

[George2615]

Around hereyes if you have non commercial plates they will laugh if you pull into a weight station and simply wave you through the bypass lane.

They set up the weigh stations here in highway rest areas. Normally I just drive by but I pulled in to use the rest area and had no intention of going thru the weigh station but they waved me in to the inspection area. Must have been a light day and they were bored. I do have commercial plates on the truck. Very rare to see a pick up here without comm. plates.

 

[3930dave]

Around hereyes if you have non commercial plates they will laugh if you pull into a weight station and simply wave you through the bypass lane.

Sounds like your State runs a balanced budget.

With the deficits here, the only entities who borrow more money on international markets than the province I live in are sovereign nations. Living somewhere like this, unless you have money to burn, you learn to be aware and wary of transportation fines.

Rgds, D.

 

[fried1765]

Sounds like your State runs a balanced budget.

With the deficits here, the only entities who borrow more money on international markets than the province I live in are sovereign nations. Living somewhere like this, unless you have money to burn, you learn to be aware and wary of transportation fines.

Rgds, D.

Dave....

I took my 14.000 GVWR trailer, loaded to 12,000 lbs., to Nova Scotia last summer.
I have a coastal seasonal home there.
My trailer is registered in Maine, but I was pulling it with my Florida registered (non commercial) K2500 4x4 Suburban (8650 lbs.).
Do you have any idea if I was legal in Canada/Nova Scotia?

BTW: Many states have a balanced budget requirement.
Not the US Federal government though.... 20 trillion in debt, and counting....absolutely disgraceful, and exceedingly dangerous!

 

[3930dave]

Dave....

I took my 14.000 GVWR trailer, loaded to 12,000 lbs., to Nova Scotia last summer.
I have a coastal seasonal home there.
My trailer is registered in Maine, but I was pulling it with my Florida registered (non commercial) K2500 4x4 Suburban (8650 lbs.).
Do you have any idea if I was legal in Canada/Nova Scotia?

BTW: Many states have a balanced budget requirement.
Not the US Federal government though.... 20 trillion in debt, and counting....absolutely disgraceful, and exceedingly dangerous!

Don't know about down east/NS. Here (Ontario) high-speed (ie. non-farm) trailers are commercial at 10,000# - with only RV travel trailers being exempt - I'm starting to hear rumblings about 5'th wheel toy haulers - we may have to watch out for what % is "toy" vs. living area in the future. TBD.

In Ontario, SUVs with their seats intact tend to be a bit less of an enforcement target than PU trucks, as they are semi-formally viewed as less commercial. But, I still wouldn't pull a 10K+ utility trailer around with an Ontario plated SUV - I'm not that brave/lucky/deep pocketed...

As you know, maritimers are a friendly bunch, and generally are very welcoming of tourists and their $'s. That said, I'd check with the NS provincial ministry site for trailer regs. As a tourist, with out of province tags, you may get away with just a warning if you are in violation, but, YMMV.

Rgds, D.

 

[powerscol]

You should be fine. The issue is when the GCWR (truck gross weight rating + trailer gross weight rating) is over 26k AND the trailer GVWR is over 10k. Then you may need a CDL (depending on the state of registration).
Federal limits are that a truck with a GVWR over 26k with a trailer GVWR over 10k (for a total of 36k GCWR) needs a CDL.
Some states use that number, others say if the GCWR is over 26k and the trailer is over 10k, you need a CDL.
In your case, your GCWR is 20,650#, so you are fine.

Aaron Z

Best correct explanation I have heard yet - Thanks

Around me (I am in the Four Corners area of Colorado) the main issue is not the weigh stations (I usually just bypass), but the quickly set up inspection stations. I am a small hay operation (Farm exempt) and will get into NM, AZ, and Utah occasionally. While they check that I am under the combined gross of 26K, I have a Ford F350 11500GVW and a 23' F8 PJ GN de-rated to 14000GVW) (25500 CGVWR) the big thing they look at are safety Items, including DOT rated tie downs, both chains and straps. Be careful where you get you stuff as my cheep TSC straps my FIL got me are not DOT rated (TSC does carry rated ones). Inspector was nice and let me pass as I had the hay load tarped and way over strapped (keeps tarp from flapping) but cautioned they (USDOT) were steeping up the enforcement due to lost loads and accident damage and fatality's. I invested in new tie down chains and ratchets this last year because of this and will be replacing the straps this spring. So folks be careful of what you get - look for the required rating stamped on the chain and binders. I think it is grade 70 or better for transport. Straps will have a tag on one end with the certification and load limit. Also check with your local folks on minimum tie downs required and number of tie down points. I always use 4 separate ones on my tractor, but could get away with two ( 1 chain looped up and over through the other side each end) as my tractor weighs less that 10K.

Ill put it this way - if I get involved in an accident, I don't what my tractor in my lap, or anywhere else but still attached to the deck.

Some tie down information
Cargo Securement Rules | Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
Driver's Handbook on Cargo Securement - Chapter 2: General Cargo Securement Requirements | Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
From Ohio
http://www.ltap.org/login/resource/entryupload/uploads/20091218130057_resource_YJX3.pdf

Even if your not CDL, the information can help save damage to your equipment, to you, and too your trailer.

Hope this helps.
Keith

 

[not2old]

I bought a 14,000 lb. rated flat deck but didn't need to have it de-rated as long as I only liscense it for 10,000 lbs. so that I don't have to stop at the scales. Recreational trailers can be any weight and don't have to stop. The problem I had was that the first two agents I went to insisted that I put a commercial plate on it which requires the GVW weight to be liscensed on the tow vehicle which means that it's hard to lend it to a friend or borrow a different truck to tow it. A certified trailer repair shop told me which agent to take it to and what to tell them. The non-commercial plate I have on it allows me to liscense and insure it for about $160.00 per year and tow it with any suitable vehicle. The people who make up all these regulations obviously don't tow a lot, like the idiots who pass laws here, concerning motorcycles.